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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Colinmclelland
You should have a coup. Then you’d know you’d successfully transitioned to the Third World...
As far as I'm concerned the USA is well on the road to becoming a failed state. It's possible that we'll make the necessary changes to avert disaster but on a bad day I'm not optimistic; on a good day I think that there are enough sensible people to reject Trump and the GOP in 2020, and that that might buy the time necessary for bona fide progressives to wrest control from the neo-liberal democratic party and save the country from truly failing and going full Third World. As for the here and now, the good news is that it takes a long while to inflict catastrophic damage to a broad enough spectrum of our foundations to complete the job. The bad news is that we've been working on it since Carter.
Biden isn't the answer but he's not intentionally destructive and divisive as is Trump, who's remarkably good at it. At this point anybody who'd vote for Trump, or nearly anybody in the GOP, is, at best, being astonishingly foolish. The bad news is that a bunch are far worse than that.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
The new domestic terrorists: Anti-lockdown protesters carry weapons into North Carolina sandwich shop. If you carry a rocket launcher into a sub shop, or walk the streets with a .50 caliber weapon, you are not protesting for your rights. You are terrorizing fellow citizens. Our president and his supporters are promoters of domestic terrorism. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The US government is a supporter of domestic terrorism. Think about this when you next vote.
Greg
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregl
The new domestic terrorists:
Anti-lockdown protesters carry weapons into North Carolina sandwich shop. If you carry a rocket launcher into a sub shop, or walk the streets with a .50 caliber weapon, you are not protesting for your rights. You are terrorizing fellow citizens. Our president and his supporters are promoters of domestic terrorism. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The US government is a supporter of domestic terrorism. Think about this when you next vote.
Greg
There's the revolution. Only it is the other guys. Surprise!
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
j44ke
There's the revolution. Only it is the other guys. Surprise!
And if we (the American public) don't wise up, the revolution will install a dictator. Do you want the current administration to be permanent? My father's family were refugees from Nazi Austria. I have scans of court documents showing how they were charged with false crimes and placed under house arrest. The only reason I exist is because they signed over their property to the Nazis and fled the country one year before the start of World War II. If that's what you want for America, then sit back and allow the current administration to continue.
Greg
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
" An armed society is a polite society."
really
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thollandpe
It's not unlike if your building was hit by an earthquake and needs to be assessed and repaired or changed before it's safe to inhabit again. This was a natural disaster. The rules have changed, but we did not change them.
Re-occupancy Assessment Tool V1.0 -- The American Institute of Architects
And this is political because this type of guidance should be coming from the White House, not left to trade associations like AIA and ASHRAE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Matthew Strongin
[I] think of all the restaurants, retail stores, etc that just don’t have the expertise or space to solve the problem easily and could use guidance from experts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guido
The White House reportedly suppressed CDC guidance for reopening safely - Vox
"Public health experts at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) spent weeks preparing detailed guidance to help schools, child care centers, religious groups, bars and restaurants, public transit officials, and others plan for a return to normalcy. The CDC’s work featured phased reopening plans, steps for ensuring each phase was completed successfully, and flow charts to help local officials decide how and when to reopen.
But the Trump administration quashed the guidance on April 30..."
This got glossed over by all the revolution talk, but this is simply incredible. Dereliction of duty. Gross negligence. A passive-aggressive annihilation. Withholding this guidance might support the narrative that the best government is the government that government that governs least, but that is not appropriate for what we're facing right now. People will get sick and people will die.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thollandpe
This got glossed over by all the revolution talk, but this is simply incredible. Dereliction of duty. Gross negligence. A passive-aggressive annihilation. Withholding this guidance might support the narrative that the best government is the government that government that governs least, but that is not appropriate for what we're facing right now. People will get sick and people will die.
If this doesn't meet the definition of "high crimes and misdemeanors," what does? Nevermind, that ship already sailed, foundered, and sank.
Greg
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
At my firm we're thinking we may not be back into the office till 2021
Anyone looking to go back earlier is making a trade-off.
Just read those meat plants that Trump declared an emergency and ordered open are exporting more of that capacity.
-Mike G
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregl
The new domestic terrorists:
Anti-lockdown protesters carry weapons into North Carolina sandwich shop. If you carry a rocket launcher into a sub shop, or walk the streets with a .50 caliber weapon, you are not protesting for your rights. You are terrorizing fellow citizens. Our president and his supporters are promoters of domestic terrorism. Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The US government is a supporter of domestic terrorism. Think about this when you next vote.
Greg
Not just domestic terrorism.
The armed folks who gathered around and in various government buildings should have been arrested, charged and prosecuted for committing acts of domestic terrorism.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jclay
Not just domestic terrorism.
The armed folks who gathered around and in various government buildings should have been arrested, charged and prosecuted for committing acts of domestic terrorism.
I saw that. If we don't the United States will begin looking like Lebanon where the central government is impotent and militias are free to terrorize an intimidate.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregl
And if we (the American public) don't wise up, the revolution will install a dictator. Do you want the current administration to be permanent? My father's family were refugees from Nazi Austria. I have scans of court documents showing how they were charged with false crimes and placed under house arrest. The only reason I exist is because they signed over their property to the Nazis and fled the country one year before the start of World War II. If that's what you want for America, then sit back and allow the current administration to continue.
Greg
My comment was ironic and referred to previous calls for revolution in this thread. My wife and my wife's family are Jewish and all members who were not in the US by 1930 were exterminated.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
j44ke
My comment was ironic and referred to previous calls for revolution in this thread. My wife and my wife's family is Jewish and all members who were not in the US by 1930 were exterminated.
I understood and appreciated the irony in your post. And I very much understand and sympathize with your wife's family background. My message was not directed at you, but rather at the general public. The "you" I referred to is the American voters. We need to support and elect candidates who understand our fragile experiment in democracy is devolving right before our eyes.
Greg
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregl
I understood and appreciated the irony in your post. And I very much understand and sympathize with your wife's family background. My message was not directed at you, but rather at the general public. The "you" I referred to is the American voters. We need to support and elect candidates who understand our fragile experiment in democracy is devolving right before our eyes.
Greg
Agreed 100%
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gregl
I understood and appreciated the irony in your post. And I very much understand and sympathize with your wife's family background. My message was not directed at you, but rather at the general public. The "you" I referred to is the American voters. We need to support and elect candidates who understand our fragile experiment in democracy is devolving right before our eyes.
Greg
Agreed. To take it one step further (more draconian, I suppose), I think that wide swaths of the country - not just geographically speaking, but in terms of various demographics as well - have already so devolved.
My father was a LTCMDR an aircraft carrier in the Six Fleet (then included the Mediterranean) in the mid to late 1960's. His favorite spot on that lake was Beirut... he always used to tell me that it was like Monte Carlo. Point is, things happen quickly, even over the course of a few decades, even years. While I don't think we're ever going to see anything even approximating the likes of THAT civil war, we can easily, EASILY go from a first world superpower to... well, something completely different, just as quickly.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
If we aren’t arresting “right wing” kooks peacefully protesting with guns, it’s incredibly disingenuous to say that somehow large numbers of armed Americans assembling in public to demand health care and basic developed-nation creature comforts is “violence”.
The Panthers did it in California and ended up affecting change in gun laws.
I don’t buy the line that people who want America to look like the rest of the world are advocating violence. Guns DO scare people, and that’s kinda the point of brandishing them “in protest”. FEAR has become a central motivator of our body politic. Let’s not have the fascists create a monopoly on fear and intimidation tactics....
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
suspectdevice
If we aren’t arresting “right wing” kooks peacefully protesting with guns, it’s incredibly disingenuous to say that somehow large numbers of armed Americans assembling in public to demand health care and basic developed-nation creature comforts is “violence”.
The Panthers did it in California and ended up affecting change in gun laws.
I don’t buy the line that people who want America to look like the rest of the world are advocating violence. Guns DO scare people, and that’s kinda the point of brandishing them “in protest”. FEAR has become a central motivator of our body politic. Let’s not have the fascists create a monopoly on fear and intimidation tactics....
A gun should never be used as a negotiating tool. It has only one true purpose - to kill. You shouldn't openly (or concealed) carry one unless you plan to use it. Unless you are in the military or law enforcement while on duty, or a hunter legally pursuing game, there is no purpose to brandishing a gun in public. I state this as a gun ownership supporter who has spent many enjoyable hours participating in shooting sports and hunting. As the saying goes, with great power comes great responsibility.
Greg
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Yes, I think carrying a gun around like these photos show is tantamount to screaming fire in a crowded theater while carrying a torch.
If these photos from NC get picked up by AP and other international news services, the people in these photos may wish they had never done this. These days, while your daily life may reside in an echo-chamber of political views, once your photo goes viral the arena becomes the virtual universe - for better and for worse.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
No masks please, we're Iowans.
YouTube
Pastor Pence doesn't want to be around any snowflakes wearing masks.
And major Trump Fluffer, the guv of Iowa is now doing a modified quarantine after she was breathed on at her White House visit. Hmmm. I thought she would want to put in a few shifts down at the meat plant to show solidarity.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jclay
Not just domestic terrorism.
The armed folks who gathered around and in various government buildings should have been arrested, charged and prosecuted for committing acts of domestic terrorism.
How different is Michigan than California? Who are the power elites? What percentage of the population holds postgrad degrees? What percentage of the work force is safely at home working in professional services and technology? These people control the proverbial levers of power (regardless of how obfuscated that control may be) not 1000 "gun enthusiasts." Those with the most to lose are always cautious.
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Re: Virus thread, the political one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thollandpe
This got glossed over by all the revolution talk, but this is simply incredible. Dereliction of duty. Gross negligence. A passive-aggressive annihilation. Withholding this guidance might support the narrative that the best government is the government that government that governs least, but that is not appropriate for what we're facing right now. People will get sick and people will die.
Back to this because it directly affects my wife, our family and our friends. The fact that people will be (essentially) forced to go back to work when we aren't even close to being out of the woods with infection rates is criminal. Every one of the politicians involved in these decisions should be forced to work a shift in every one of the businesses that shouldn't be open. Without a mask. Or PPE.