NE Skiing: Intel needed

[Bobonli]

I'm in search of real-life intel on what the social distancing/crowd situation is at major NE ski slopes, NY in particular. Are the lift lines long or unbearable as a result of pandemic rules enforcement? Are you getting your money's worth?

I take my kids skiing during the winter school recess. My first choice places based on driving distance and lodging options are usually Windham then moving northward Gore and finally Whiteface. Out of state travel to VT, NH is not worth the hassle to me because I'll have to report that to my employer and probably quarantine even though I've been vaccinated because no one has adjusted that policy!

Many places are sold out completely because they restricted ticket sales and/or giving preference to season pass holders. Belleayre is selling tickets ($300 a day for two adults and two kids not incl. equipment)....honestly not sure that mountain is worth that premium. I'm reluctant to slap down the credit card without knowing what the lift line situation is and whether it's going to be remotely pleasant given all the other warnings such as "leave your stuff and food in your car" and "please eat outside."

Has anyone been skiing at one of the NY slopes? How was it?

[cny rider]

I'm in search of real-life intel on what the social distancing/crowd situation is at major NE ski slopes, NY in particular. Are the lift lines long or unbearable as a result of pandemic rules enforcement? Are you getting your money's worth?

I take my kids skiing during the winter school recess. My first choice places based on driving distance and lodging options are usually Windham then moving northward Gore and finally Whiteface. Out of state travel to VT, NH is not worth the hassle to me because I'll have to report that to my employer and probably quarantine even though I've been vaccinated because no one has adjusted that policy!

Many places are sold out completely because they restricted ticket sales and/or giving preference to season pass holders. Belleayre is selling tickets ($300 a day for two adults and two kids not incl. equipment)....honestly not sure that mountain is worth that premium. I'm reluctant to slap down the credit card without knowing what the lift line situation is and whether it's going to be remotely pleasant given all the other warnings such as "leave your stuff and food in your car" and "please eat outside."

Has anyone been skiing at one of the NY slopes? How was it?

We decided to make this a "cross country ski only" winter.
I have friends who have skied Hunter and Belleayre midweek and had a great time.
Here's the catch though: They're single adults going midweek on a season pass, and they ski for 3-4 hours and then leave.
I'm not liking the prospect of a holiday week, with kids, and wanting to ski all day but needing bathroom breaks and lunch break.

Good luck if you do go, I hope it works out.
Let us know because I'm curious myself.

[vertical_doug]

Last week there were a couple of green days at Windham and they had walk up tickets sales. This week is $130/day. The weekends are sold out till end of season.

If your kids can play hookey Friday, I'd hit Catamount near Slow Poke Pete's in Hillsdale for the day. Adult ticket is only $50/day for an adult. The mountain is little, and you have to eat in your car, but it is the best you are going to do. But the proper way to look at this is the GOV is sending you a stimulus check so you can afford to take your kids skiing. You maybe even get a bonus on the backend of $3000/kid. It's your patrioted duty to spend the money and stimulate the local economies.

And trust me, you are thinking about skiing relative to normal life pre-covid. Even a bad day skiing compared to our normal covid existence is a really nice day on the slopes.


There is no real place to avoid the crowds. This is Mammoth 2 weeks ago when they had the mid-week 9 ft dump. Everyone and their brother headed up for the weekend including my daughter. It's like Disneyland long lines.



The next week, going to Alta since they limit the number of cars allowed to park even, if you don't make it before the parking lot closes SOL.
It means an early departure up the Canyon.

Tail gate breakfast cook out.

But the snow is always worth it here.

[j44ke]

If you do come up here to ski Catamount, our former landlords in town (Hillsdale) are still renting their upstairs apartment in town. Just have to match up your dates with availability. You can see Catamount at night from the backyard. Very close. And there is an IGA, several restaurants, all obeying covid guidelines and with kid friendly food. Apartment has a small but functional kitchen also. The landlords are very careful about cleaning. It is on rt. 23, but they've done some soundproofing and conveniently skiing wears you out. Nice beds!

Plenty of snow here too. Catamount just got a big injection of capital through a buy-invest arrangement with the owners of Berkshire East Mountain Resort. New facilities and new runs. Butternut is nearby (20-25 minutes) in Great Barrington if you want to visit that as well.

[Bobonli]

I can't think of a single place in NY, maybe the entire NE, that would make me want to wait on that line! This same time period last year we took our kids to Gore for the first time. The season got something of a slow start but it dumped snow the day before we left. Crowds were light; you could've parked next to the base lodge. Longest wait was maybe 10 mins because of a mechanical issue on the gondola. Kids' first black diamond and short glade run. There were grumblings of a virus in another part of the world......Seems like a million years ago. So....yeah, anytime skiing is a victory.

[j44ke]

I can't think of a single place in NY, maybe the entire NE, that would make me want to wait on that line! This same time period last year we took our kids to Gore for the first time. The season got something of a slow start but it dumped snow the day before we left. Crowds were light; you could've parked next to the base lodge. Longest wait was maybe 10 mins because of a mechanical issue on the gondola. Kids' first black diamond and short glade run. There were grumblings of a virus in another part of the world......Seems like a million years ago. So....yeah, anytime skiing is a victory.

This place, Kenver, rents skis and equipment if you want to avoid the ski area's rental shop. In South Egremont (JP Weigle's birthplace I believe) so on the other side of the ridge from Hillsdale with Catamount in the middle. I don't know if the prices are any different though. Just less crowded.

[Bobonli]

Catamount it is, then. Scored a last minute AirBNB so we can do a couple of days. Online ticket vending sux, had to call them to complete the transaction nd they were helpful. We haven’t skied this area before so it will be a mini-adventure.

[funcrusher]

I can't think of a single place in NY, maybe the entire NE, that would make me want to wait on that line! This same time period last year we took our kids to Gore for the first time. The season got something of a slow start but it dumped snow the day before we left. Crowds were light; you could've parked next to the base lodge. Longest wait was maybe 10 mins because of a mechanical issue on the gondola. Kids' first black diamond and short glade run. There were grumblings of a virus in another part of the world......Seems like a million years ago. So....yeah, anytime skiing is a victory.

have you considered fahnestock?...i dont do nordic, but my shop owner does...it has been fantastic for obvious reasons...pretty sure you can rent there and not a long trip for you

[Tom]

I understand that this year the NY ski areas are limiting occupancy which might make for a better experience. So many places have invested in great lift capacity because everybody hates lift lines but all you do is trade them for hills littered with human obstacles where on a weekend its about impossible to make a single run without some clueless veering into your line and since the overtaking skier is responsible not to cause a collision you spend the whole day in evasion maneuvers swearing under your breath. Weekdays are often not much better. I sort of lost interest in skiing downhill because it could be so aggravating.

[Bobonli]

have you considered fahnestock?...i dont do nordic, but my shop owner does...it has been fantastic for obvious reasons...pretty sure you can rent there and not a long trip for you

Not renting this year because if COVID but yeah that was my first choice.

[Bobonli]

We decided to make this a "cross country ski only" winter.
I have friends who have skied Hunter and Belleayre midweek and had a great time.
Here's the catch though: They're single adults going midweek on a season pass, and they ski for 3-4 hours and then leave.
I'm not liking the prospect of a holiday week, with kids, and wanting to ski all day but needing bathroom breaks and lunch break.

Good luck if you do go, I hope it works out.
Let us know because I'm curious myself.

I thought about XC or snowshoe adventures but we'd need gear rentals and even that stuff can be hard to come by. The two ski shops nearest me are cleaned out. And, honestly, there's no comparison for the kids between working hard at XC or snowshoeing and screaming downhill.

Back in the day before kids, I wouldn't think twice about driving 3 hours by myself, skiing and coming back home at 11pm. And if it was crowded, that was just part of the day. Now the economics are different and I know my wife and kids won't tolerate standing in a line like Doug pictured or have to walk back to the car to eat a Subway sandwich.

Catamount looks appealing. Further north than I thought/recalled it: solid 2.5 hour drive and I can't push off until 11 on Friday because of work. Maybe I'll call them in the morning and see how bananas the place gets during the holiday week.

[72gmc]

Good gravy, that picture of the snow at Alta.

I like Mt. Bachelor's policy of requiring a parking reservation to go on the hill. Seems to be a sensible way to limit the lines, maybe better than limiting ticket sales. Are NE areas implementing policies like this?

[j44ke]

Yesterday was 40F. Today is (currently) 12F. Tomorrow will be 40F. Had some scary winds up around 60mph last night. Snapped a skinny pine in half. Power out at 11pm so must be another tree downed somewhere in the neighborhood. Generator popped on immediately. Have a fire going this morning. One of the best things - fire in the stove first thing in the morning. Can see the top of Catamount from the house with binoculars and there are people up there. Must be icy.

[72gmc]

However, my suspicion is these investments are really about real estate, not skiing. Build/sell upscale houses, then leave the snow problem for the owners of the houses to solve.

That’s my suspicion with a lot of current resort developments. Not unlike those luxury home owners in the Scottsdale area who thought they were safe buying city water, until the city stopped selling it.

[rmplum]

I don't know how you ski anymore without forking over for one of the passes. We are having a $hit winter here in Michigan, especially here in SE Mich. Our local "hill" was purchased by Vail a handful plus years ago. Nice lodge and facilities etc, but daily passes are $100+ now. WTF!?! For this tiny little pedant hill on all fake snow this year I may be out. It only takes 5 days out to pay for the season pass but I don't want to ski 5 days on this crap.

[SlowPokePete]

Looks like Catamount is around $45 for a day pass next week on weekdays.

And Butternut is only $25 for day pass on Fridays starting next week March 1st as well.

SPP

[72gmc]

A coworker just returned from $200+/day resort slopes in Colorado.

I'm more interested in mom and pop areas at prodigious altitudes in Utah and Wyoming for $45-$65 a day.

[vertical_doug]

So do you think skiing is a business that can be fully "luxotified" in this area? I was giving the whole thing 3-5 years before ownership change, downgrade, etc. That's what I meant by economic correction. However, my suspicion is these investments are really about real estate, not skiing. Build/sell upscale houses, then leave the snow problem for the owners of the houses to solve. So maybe luxury is just a place holder.

According to my friend who lives over there, the ski touring was done on slopes (or a slope) that isn't regularly maintained and is sort of off to one side of the area. But I haven't been there so I don't really know what that means. I think most of the complaints are coming from current residents who are used to amenable terms for skiing accorded to locals.

I suspect they are discussing Hunter West and getting Annapurna. The run is rarely open, if it is open, and you are at hunter, it is the one run you want to hit for the little fresh snow you get. If it was a powder day, and the telemarkers have already sluffed off the run by hiking up early. I'd be bummed.

I think there is so much money in greater NYC area, that for some people buying a convenience home in Hunter or Wyndam because your kid wants to be on the high school ski team is perfectly reasonable.

I'd a bit of dick here but honestly if you want to hike up and ski down, go to Mt. Greylock and do Thunderbolt with Lumpy. I always view lift served terrain as lifted served terrain. Uphill guys need to go somewhere else. But if the resort is willing to let them go uphill if they buy a reduced pass, they should not complain and buy the pass. You gotta chip in.

Else you get the Ghost resorts like we have in Japan.



This is an awesome clip btw

[robin3mj]

The key to the RE game is that as long as you can make your returns and timeline pencil, there will always be another buyer at exit time.

That merry go round is going to stop in many places in the next decades- RTO stagnation in CBD’s, water availability in the SW, lack of snow in NE, insurers electing to stop insuring 30 year mortgages in coastal FL. Etc etc.

It’s gonna be interesting.

[72gmc]

Looks great! As great as anywhere can look in a snow year like this year.

I also have Nordica skis and like them a lot.