Chef Knives?

[vjp]

I know there are some accomplished pro chefs on this board and I am looking for some knife recommendations for my son.

He is 21 and has been in the kitchen of a casual/fine dining restaurant full time for just over two years. He started off as a "dish pig" and is now on the line. He has always liked to be in the kitchen with me cooking since he was little and talked about being a chef one day, but the reality of the kitchen kicked the shit out of him and after 18 months at another kitchen (an iron chef winner) he quit and enrolled in film school. After a semester of film school he decided that maybe the kitchen was the place for him after all and landed at his current kitchen.

He moved out a couple of months ago and has really grown up and become a lot more serious about his future, and realizes that if he applies himself he is rewarded appropriately. His room mate and him (another cook) have both been getting "stage" positions on their days off in some pretty hot kitchens and he is fired up about the possibilities of moving forward in training and experience.

He currently uses the house knives at work and I gave him my old set of Henckels "Classics" that he uses at home but he wants to get one good, to great, chef's knife for himself. He wants a carbon steel blade and is left handed.

Any thoughts?

[spopepro]

Not a pro... but like I said in the japanese skills thread, that's never stopped me from having and sharing my opinion.

Is he really sure about the carbon steel thing? Stainless can be really, really, really good, and the advantages of a carbon steel blade are very few. But don't ask me, ask our own PKB who makes some fine blades.

Know that the current trend is towards light weight japanese western style blades. I'd have a gander at japanesechefsknife.com, and if he's set on carbon steel, they have a great selection and they are an easy company to work with.

If you're looking for the v-salon-approved style of things, I'd see if PKB could make you something awesome. I've considered trying to get something from Cut Brooklyn, but I keep going back and forth between thinking that their unique design is amazing and completley wrong. Not sure how to know without holding one--but know that they have a different way of doing things. There are other fine custom makers, and epicedge.com seems to keep a great stock of them.

If you're a retro grouch, find a vintage sabatier. They are also excelent, and here you can definitely hit the carbon steel itch.

[Jeremy S]

My favorite combo is the $25 Victorinox and a good sharpener. I have 2 other blades that were both V-Salon style, and they're just too fussy. I like Fibrox because it's sanitary and doesn't swell/crack/etc, and with a quick sharpen once a week, I have no trouble cutting anything. But just like bikes, knives are individual.

Global makes some nice workhorse blades for not much money as well.

[vjp]

This is funny actually, I photographed these knives for Victorinox when they were first released, afterwards I gave the knives to a friend. I completely forgot about that until your post. I will suggest it to my Son, thanks.

My favorite combo is the $25 Victorinox and a good sharpener. I have 2 other blades that were both V-Salon style, and they're just too fussy. I like Fibrox because it's sanitary and doesn't swell/crack/etc, and with a quick sharpen once a week, I have no trouble cutting anything. But just like bikes, knives are individual.

Global makes some nice workhorse blades for not much money as well.

[spopepro]

Oh, and I *highly* recommend An Edge in the Kitchen if he isn't a total knife geek. The book covers the why, as well as the how for knives and sharpening. It was recommended in another thread around here and it is indeed very good.

[lukasz]

I so badly want one of these 7" chef's knives if only for the story behind them: Thiers-Issard Sabatier Nogent Carbon-Steel Kitchen Knives

But at $80 it is going to be a while before I reach for the plastic.

Those Victorinox are what I'd recommend as well, for what it's worth.

[vjp]

Thanks for your opinion!

He said "carbon steel" but he is open to suggestions. Thanks for the links, Cut Brooklyn might be a little too couture for our budget but I get the knife porn aspect for sure. I think a "ready to wear" option would be best at this point so I will try and sort through japanesechefsknife.com though from a brief peek the site seems overwhelming with choices.

Not a pro... but like I said in the japanese skills thread, that's never stopped me from having and sharing my opinion.

Is he really sure about the carbon steel thing? Stainless can be really, really, really good, and the advantages of a carbon steel blade are very few. But don't ask me, ask our own PKB who makes some fine blades.

Know that the current trend is towards light weight japanese western style blades. I'd have a gander at japanesechefsknife.com, and if he's set on carbon steel, they have a great selection and they are an easy company to work with.

If you're looking for the v-salon-approved style of things, I'd see if PKB could make you something awesome. I've considered trying to get something from Cut Brooklyn, but I keep going back and forth between thinking that their unique design is amazing and completley wrong. Not sure how to know without holding one--but know that they have a different way of doing things. There are other fine custom makers, and epicedge.com seems to keep a great stock of them.

If you're a retro grouch, find a vintage sabatier. They are also excelent, and here you can definitely hit the carbon steel itch.

[randonneur]

I will try and sort through japanesechefsknife.com though from a brief peek the site seems overwhelming with choices.

Let me narrow it down to 4 for you, because I've spent way too long looking at that site. Whatever the brand, you're looking for a 240 0r 270mm gyuto. If you're in to the traditional look, the JCK house brand fu rin ka zan looks bad ass. carbon core clad with stainless. In a more traditionally western shape, the carbonext comes highly rated. It's a next generation stainless, and holds an edge for a really long time. Amazing value. Masamoto is one of the oldest knifemakers in Japan. can't go wrong with this carbon steel option. Lastlyl, I'm particular to Blazens because I own one. It's a great workhorse knife. Stays sharp a long time, not too thin and not too thick.

[vjp]

We spent a day going to various knife dealers (retail and wholesale) and going from rec's here and from what he has learned and used at work he decide to go on the conservative side at this point and base a decision on feel and build quality. He went with a Wusthof Classic Wide Chef's knife. He is excited about it which I think is important but at lunch today he talked about ordering one of the Sabatier's.... and so, it begins.

Thank You so much for the tips and I'll let you know how it progresses.

[shiggy]

I like Dexter-Russell knives.
Found the best pices here: Cook Knives - Cutlery - Kitchen Supplies

I have one of their knives my grandfather used as a crew cook. It is at least 70 years old and the best chefs knife (18"!) I have ever used. The current models (at least at the top end) are just as good.
Use a 10" one at work every day (grandad's is too big for the small kitchen).

[jitahs]

We spent a day going to various knife dealers (retail and wholesale) and going from rec's here and from what he has learned and used at work he decide to go on the conservative side at this point and base a decision on feel and build quality. He went with a Wusthof Classic Wide Chef's knife. He is excited about it which I think is important but at lunch today he talked about ordering one of the Sabatier's.... and so, it begins.

Thank You so much for the tips and I'll let you know how it progresses.

That's the perennial work horse - he'll do fine with it.

[Cookietruck]

Let me narrow it down to 4 for you, because I've spent way too long looking at that site. Whatever the brand, you're looking for a 240 0r 270mm gyuto. If you're in to the traditional look, the JCK house brand fu rin ka zan looks bad ass. carbon core clad with stainless. In a more traditionally western shape, the carbonext comes highly rated. It's a next generation stainless, and holds an edge for a really long time. Amazing value. Masamoto is one of the oldest knifemakers in Japan. can't go wrong with this carbon steel option. Lastlyl, I'm particular to Blazens because I own one. It's a great workhorse knife. Stays sharp a long time, not too thin and not too thick.

i have a few SHIKI knives that i'm happy with. a french pattern gyuto 210mm similar to this style but in VG10 instead of a damascus blade.
SHIKI Damascus Series Japanese Knife,Japanese Kitchen Knife,Japanese Cutlery,Japanese Chef's Knives.Com

i thought the 210mm gyuto would feel big like the 9" german chef's knife i have but it doesn't, kinda wish it was a 240mm knife
but it's fine, i'm used to it and it works great.

JCK has quick and cheap shipping. happy with all the orders i've made from them.

and if you notice, you can order most blades for left hand use...

[doomridesout]

Reading through this thread has got me realizing I'm fairly out of my depth about this stuff, but I really enjoy my Deglon Cuisine Ideale. I've got a 9 1/2" and I only really use it for parting down big cuts of meat, but the 8" would be a perfect all-rounder.

[caleb]

He wants a carbon steel blade and is left handed.

Any thoughts?

For what it's worth, I really like less-hard steel. I bought a 9" Wushtof a few years ago, and I rarely use it. The blade is really thick so it tends to crush food, and since the steel is super duper hard it's a bear to sharpen with a rod. I actually find myself using a Chicago Cutlery chefs knife instead since the blade is thiner and it sharpens so much easier.

If I were to buy a chefs knife today, it would probably be a 6" Sabatier.

Also, there's an America's Test Kitchen podcast where they test/parse/discuss most of the major knife makers today. It's worth a listen.

[Too Tall]

About 6 yrs. ago I pony'd up for a Wustoff 10" cooks knife (4582). It is a classic and my hope was to give my 50+ year old Sabatier a rest. After 6 yrs. of use I'm out of love. That blade is heavy and suited for mowing thru heavy veg. and breaking down birds and absolutely useless for slicing anything with a skin or precision work. The ancient Sabatier still rules that roost. I'm back at it looking for another 9 or 10" chef's knife that is versitile in ways that Wustoff is not.

FWIIW I'm no fan of knives with people's names on them unless they ride bikes.

[Curt Goodrich]

Toots,

Pick up a NOS Sabatier.
Knives Round Bolster - 12 in Cooking Knife - Carbon - Natural Wood - ANTIQUE Sabatier K - CARBONE

I know it's bigger than you asked for. Look around and you'll find what you're looking for. Life is too short to cook with a crappy knife.

[Too Tall]

Who but yourself would know they sell NOS knives? On page two there is a SS 10" antique. Tempting.

Toots,

Pick up a NOS Sabatier.
Knives Round Bolster - 12 in Cooking Knife - Carbon - Natural Wood - ANTIQUE Sabatier K - CARBONE

I know it's bigger than you asked for. Look around and you'll find what you're looking for. Life is too short to cook with a crappy knife.

[spopepro]

Who but yourself would know they sell NOS knives? On page two there is a SS 10" antique. Tempting.

Toots, careful with the vintage sabatiers. Old ones can be awesome or crap, since the mark was not protected so any old fool could stamp it on their blade. The one Curt linked is by a solid family and is probably worth it. The other common issue is with poor mounting of handles, which can be fixed, but it's not fun. The full tang ones are less affected, but the nogent blades I've seen are hit and miss. I personally wouldn't buy one over the internet (and fortunately have a guy locally who deals vintage french steel).

I'm not shy about professing a strong preference for thin, impossibly hard Japanese steel. I've come to dislike large bolsters, tangs, and shaped handles. Fortunately, that local guy deals in that stuff too, so I could get a feel for what I wanted. I think buying a knife over the internet is maybe the toughest thing to do.

[Noteddy]

Life is too short to cook with a crappy knife.

This! Whatever that means for you. I'm a Shun Ken Onion type, but they are on the heavy side.

[rec head]

I have some decent knifes and this one is my favorite by far. Wüsthof® Epicure Santoku Knife, 7" | Sur La Table It is not shaped like most santoku blades, it rolls a lot better and for chopping vegetables I love it. I have to sharpen it often for cutting delicate things but I use it all the time and don't mind. As a vegetarian that likes to cook I spend a lot of time chopping veggies and this thing was a game changer.