Crumpton Cycles

[crumpton]

Nostalgia brought me to cycling but I couldn't say exactly what keeps me here. It's better that way cause if I have that answer, I'm likely to muck it up. Born June '66 to Jean and Noel Crumpton of Reno Nevada, some of my earliest memories were of the many bicycles parked in the garage. My father, a member of the Reno Wheelmen at the time, collected BMW motorcycles and racing bicycles. Bianchi mostly. I was the youngest of 5 and by the time I was old enough to have any appreciation for the stuff, the bikes had long since disappeared leaving me with the faint memories associated with that classic road scene.

Of the 5 kids, I seem to be the only one with this connection to our past. Although my oldest brother has the stories of reckless tandem attacks on Geiger Grade, dad getting him his first job in a Reno bike shop... Fast forward to 1979, my father dies never getting a chance to see his youngest (I'm 14 at the time) slowly making his way into the scene. So this is what really brings me here, we can skip all the "why I wanted to build".

While it was a good 10 years from the 'I wanna build' light bulb moment to actually holding a torch, preparations began early by getting a job in a bike shop. In hindsight, it couldn't have been a better shop. TechnoSport was a high end tri and racing shop run by Kevin Bice. Kevin was a trend setter in building low spoke count trick aero road wheels and early in the game of US outsourcing production of house branded bikes. His were called Intertech. This name still lives on Tom Teasdale's list. So I was getting great exposure to bike design, fitting and the likes early on in my industry experience.

A few years later I am with REI running the bike shop in Austin when I see a job opening in the Eugene store. Eureka! That fun some guys poke at Portland and all its builders? That's nothing new. In '94 my opinion was, in Oregon, there must be a frame builder on every corner and If I got myself there, I would be that much closer to building. I took advantage of REI's transfer and after a few months found myself with Hans and Allen Schultz of Greengear (BikeFriday). Hans was a great guy to work with on the floor. And while I couldn't say he taught me to build bikes, he did teach me to use the shop tools of the trade. After hours I was free to run-a-muck with everything from the TIG torch, engine lathe to the powder coat booth. But I'd have to say the biggest thing I came away from there with was exposure to dialed in processes and efficiency in work flow. Those guys are JIT masters.

By '96 I am back in Austin running repairs for local masters and tri-athletes out of my garage. I get a torch and some files and start building. No big deal, fillet brazed mostly. Some lugged. Road, TT, track and even a few MTBs. Those early days were fun. No pressure, just trying to do a better job each time. All learning. Those first few frames were all balancing acts and bar clamps. Its amazing how little tooling you actually need to build and adequate bike frame. A few frames down the line I had a few chunks of aluminum machined to create an interesting fixture that converted from BB to DT and ST holding to then attaching the rear. I was still balancing HT to DT. Still a little later I made a full plate fixture not unlike the Nortac. The reality is I am hobby building at that time, just gotten married and feeling the need to do better for the future. So off to the corporate world for a stint.

Years go by while I am buried in a cubicle wondering how could I make it full time in frame building. Mind you this is before the next round/resurgence of the current scene. It was happening but I didn't know it. I was busy with the job and working in the shop when I could. In 2000 there was no way I could be convinced that anyone new could make a go of it in traditional steel and actually make a living. With carbon fast on the rise in the production world, I hedged my bets and began researching the stuff. I spent a good 2 years learning as much as I could about advanced composites not really knowing exactly where it would go. Most everything lead to the idea of expensive molds and presses and little option to customize geometries. There was a couple examples of "tubed" carbon bikes, not really all that ideal as they were built around high cost tooling for joints and still not fully customizable.

Take a step back, remember you're a frame builder. This approach reminded me that what I needed to do was stick tubes together. It didn't hurt that Dedacciai had just started shipping a complete carbon rear stay kit including dropouts. So I took a traditional frame building approach. I mitered tubes, tacked them in a fixture and then completed the joining but instead of a torch I used dry carbon clothe and laminating epoxy. I consolidated the joinery with a vacuum bag. I was riding that first prototype in June of '03 and had my buddies on them over the next few months. Some of you guys may remember the old hydromedia site? You may remember me posting pics of that bike there.

A couple of years on, NAHBS 1.0 serves a the official launch Crumpton Cycles. A full time commitment. 6 years later I guess I can say it is a success. I have spent that six years refining a rather elementary process, still not perfected but with each frame, a little better. This is what continues to drive me. If I thought there was no room for improvement, I think I'd find it hard to go into the shop each day and produce a status quo.

I hope this look into my history was interesting for those who took the time to read it. It rarely gets discussed as much as what's in front of me today. Lately I feel like my past deserves more of my own attention. If we don't know where we have been, how do we know where we are going?

[DCT]

nick,

what percentage your bikes are road vs. cross. vs. tt?

[anthonymaietta]

Years go by while I am buried in a cubicle wondering how could I make it full time in frame building. Mind you this is before the next round/resurgence of the current scene. It was happening but I didn't know it. I was busy with the job and working in the shop when I could.

Nick,

I sit here, in my cubicle, reading your story...thinking about what I'll be doing in my shop tonight. What type of white collar work did you do? What was the tipping point for you: getting so fed up with your job you resigned and made "the bike thing" work, or was the framebuilding growing to a point where it was an easy decision?

Thanks,
Tony

[Eric Estlund]

The BF alumni crew is a pretty deep field-

You mention looking at your own past- in a bike sense are there early ideas/ concepts that you moved away from (for whatever reason) that you are interested in revisiting now that you have a wider range of experience?

[VA_MEL]

You mentioned focusing on carbon as a way to find a niche for yourself as a custom builder in a time when the steel custom marketplace was fairly saturated. You certainly were right on in seeing the rise in the demand for carbon. Seems to me the other side of that coin, though, is that there is a vocal, almost fanatical, buying community for custom steel. Does that exist in the same way for custom carbon? And as local bike stores increasingly carry the pro-sponsoring, high-end carbon bike brands, is it becoming more or less difficult to find the people who appreciate the custom option for carbon?

Mike

[Dave Kirk]

I don't have a question at the moment but I'm sure some will come to me........... but I just wanted to say you do very nice work that I think you should be very proud of. Keep it up.


dave

[steve garro]

thanks for signing up, Nick! how many steel bikes did you make? just curious - Garro.

[nahtnoj]

Nick,

Your frames are awesome, and you are a cool guy to talk to. I lingered in your NAHBS booth for an unreasonably long amount of time.

I don't have a question here, except to say that I would really appreciate the variety of seeing some of your work in FNL.

OK, I do have a question(s). How do your customers perceive your pricing? And who are your customers? Are they previous custom buyers coming from steel or titanium, or are they buyers of stock carbon seeking custom? The "custom premium" does not factor into your prices, compared to say a Dogma you are actually cheaper. That is not the case generally for production vs. custom in steel or titanium.

[crumpton]

First, Thanks for the opportunity to share with you guys. Thanks in advance for all the kinds words and support. It means a lot.

nick,

what percentage your bikes are road vs. cross. vs. tt?

Darren-
95% road. Cross for most of the remaining.

Nick,

I sit here, in my cubicle, reading your story...thinking about what I'll be doing in my shop tonight. What type of white collar work did you do? What was the tipping point for you: getting so fed up with your job you resigned and made "the bike thing" work, or was the framebuilding growing to a point where it was an easy decision?

Thanks,
Tony

Tony-
For most of my white collar crime days, I was a Technical Marketing Engineer for Cisco Systems. In that roll I provided technical support to global marketing and sales, acted as liaison between marketing and engineering, did large scale broadband connectivity proof of concept and white papers. Also, my favorite work in those days, I did competitive analysis! The product of that was for both engineering and marketing.

As good as I was at that job, I never felt like it was for me. So the tipping point was my personal emotion. The rest was luck and timing.

The BF alumni crew is a pretty deep field-

You mention looking at your own past- in a bike sense are there early ideas/ concepts that you moved away from (for whatever reason) that you are interested in revisiting now that you have a wider range of experience?

Eric-
Not really but I will say I’ve dreamed of making correct looking lugged track bikes since long before they were cool. Like real Italian and NJS stuff. Maybe someday.

You mentioned focusing on carbon as a way to find a niche for yourself as a custom builder in a time when the steel custom marketplace was fairly saturated. You certainly were right on in seeing the rise in the demand for carbon. Seems to me the other side of that coin, though, is that there is a vocal, almost fanatical, buying community for custom steel. Does that exist in the same way for custom carbon? And as local bike stores increasingly carry the pro-sponsoring, high-end carbon bike brands, is it becoming more or less difficult to find the people who appreciate the custom option for carbon?

Mike

Mike-
Actually I focused on carbon because I thought there was no market for steel and what little there was had been well taken care of by the real “pros”. The truth was there was a growing market, I just didn’t see it coming because I was too deep in my world. But in hindsight, I’m glad I didn’t see it for what it really was. Make sense?

I wouldn’t say there is a fanatical faction of custom carbon buyers but I will say it draws awesome “repeat offenders” (return customers.

I don't have a question at the moment but I'm sure some will come to me........... but I just wanted to say you do very nice work that I think you should be very proud of. Keep it up.


dave

Thanks Dave. You are still one of the best looking builders.

thanks for signing up, Nick! how many steel bikes did you make? just curious - Garro.

Steve-
I count 27 between ’95 and ’99 and then 3 more during my current carbon gig. None in a few years now though. I do itch for it.

Nick,

Your frames are awesome, and you are a cool guy to talk to. I lingered in your NAHBS booth for an unreasonably long amount of time.

I don't have a question here, except to say that I would really appreciate the variety of seeing some of your work in FNL.

OK, I do have a question(s). How do your customers perceive your pricing? And who are your customers? Are they previous custom buyers coming from steel or titanium, or are they buyers of stock carbon seeking custom? The "custom premium" does not factor into your prices, compared to say a Dogma you are actually cheaper. That is not the case generally for production vs. custom in steel or titanium.

nahtnoj-
Thanks for the kind words. Not sure how customers perceive pricing other than no one questions it. They are a good mix in terms of cycling background but mostly males between 45 and 65yo I am developing quite a strong following of women. Especially 5’2 and under cause I have a strange take on how to build those bikes and apparently they like what I do with them(the bikes). As for pricing, I do no price based on the market but rather a on COGS and margin. Should I raise my prices? I dono.

[Dave Kirk]

Thanks Dave. You are still one of the best looking builders.

Well thank you Nick. I think you too are very handsome.

Dave

[hampco]

Well thank you Nick. I think you too are very handsome.

Dave

can't this wait?

hey nick, why aren't there MORE guys doing custom carbon? is the niche that small or is the barrier to entry too high? just curious...

[nahtnoj]

I am developing quite a strong following of women. Especially 5'2" and under cause I have a strange take on how to build those bikes

Could you expound upon this? My fiancee is 5'2" and doesn't really fit the "WSD" mold.

[MarkC]

Nick,

Any potential for a Crumpton Tandem?

Mark

[moran]

nahtnoj-
Thanks for the kind words. Not sure how customers perceive pricing other than no one questions it. As for pricing, I do no price based on the market but rather a on COGS and margin. Should I raise my prices? I dono.

Nick,

That's not true! I questioned your pricing when we first met. My "belief" is that your pricing low relative to what the market will bear and relative to the quality of the product you produce...as well as the time you spent fitting me. That said, I do admire your pricing philosophy of simply pricing off your cost and making what you consider to be a fair margin. So there you go...I just countered my own opinion. I just think customers would be willing to pay more money for what you do.

So my questions are..when do you think you will finish my bike? Also, will you wait to raise your prices until after mine is completed?

Thanks,

Sean

[crumpton]

Nick,

thanks for the answer.

Care to share some pictures of your shop?

Cheers
Kevin

Kevin-
Not much of a shutter bug here. Hence my lack of FNL. Will get on the wagon soon enough though.

Nick,

From what I've seen, and what S&S says, Calfee is the only guy out there adding couplers to carbon frames. Have you? Would you? Thoughts on couples in carbon tubes?

Thanks,
Tony

I’ve done it. It wasn’t terribly difficult although it took quite a bit of mod’n and custom tube work to make them fit. I kind of get the feeling it detracted from my bike. I’m keeping them off the menu for now.

Could you expound upon this? My fiancee is 5'2" and doesn't really fit the "WSD" mold.

At a glance, the typical WSD just seems to create a compact cockpit. No regard for front end geometry and weight distribution. They make some big assumptions about women who typically are not all needing the same things. So looking at the needs of individuals helps. Proper front centers meaning shallower HTAs and longer rakes for neutral trail… Then being sure the CS are long enough to keep the front end weighted. Just about the opposite of what I have seen in WSD. Yeah?

Nick,

Any potential for a Crumpton Tandem?

Mark

Mark-
Probably not for some time. It’s just not my forte.

Nick,

Can you talk briefly about where you honed your chops relating to bike fit and handling...? Was the info passed to you or did you seek it out solo in the same way that you seem to have researched the carbon materials issues? I ask for two reasons:

1. During the fitting process you changed my saddle position in pretty big way...and took the time (a few months, if I remember right) to make sure it was the right thing to do. Maybe that's par for the course for many builders, but I'd had three "pro" fit sessions prior to yours and none of them said boo about it prior to you. Oh...and it has worked out perfectly and I thank you for not rolling over and going with the numbers the client sent you. I do, however, think that takes a certain degree of confidence.

2. The SL you built me handles great...perfectly...but does feel somewhat unique compared to the other bikes I've owned. The handling is neutral, but there's something cool about the way the bike moves that makes me wonder if you've tinkered with the center of gravity or where the two wheels are located relative to my center of mass. Fluke, or part of some kind of Crumpton ethos...?

Thanks again for the lovely bike...

Bryan—
It started with my time at Technosport and the Intertech line. First one has to get the simple concepts of good bike geo to a given fit and stay rooted in them. Biggest mistake I could make as a builder is to be swayed(by customers) by desires for this angle or that length without regard for how someone actually sits.

If I recall your saddle was alarmingly high for your inseam, shoe size etc. We had the luxury(queue) of a several month wait so you could experiment with my recommendations on your current bike.

No fluke, I just put the wheels where I think they should be for you.

Nick,

That's not true! I questioned your pricing when we first met. My "belief" is that your pricing low relative to what the market will bear and relative to the quality of the product you produce...as well as the time you spent fitting me. That said, I do admire your pricing philosophy of simply pricing off your cost and making what you consider to be a fair margin. So there you go...I just countered my own opinion. I just think customers would be willing to pay more money for what you do.

So my questions are..when do you think you will finish my bike? Also, will you wait to raise your prices until after mine is completed?

Thanks,

Sean

Hey Sean-
When do you want it and how much do you wanna pay?? Seriously, at this point a deposit is a framset price lock.

[Too Tall]

Nic, I've got some followup questions. For now, mind talking about what a Bad A$$ you are/were on the track and how racing influnced design?

XXX Josh

[e-RICHIE]

yo nick - thanks for doing this atmo.
what's next?
you're at about 40 or so units per annum (that's latin for per year) iirc.
do you expand production, raise the prices, and/or brand the name?
also, what are your feelings wrt a helper?
are you a loner type or can you imagine another voice in your personal space while you work?

[edoz]

Nick, lots of people (myself included at one time) think of carbon fiber as something only the big companies do with 6 or 7 figure investments in tooling and research. Giants like Trek and Specialized put a lot of effort into convincing the masses that all that engineering and equipment are required to build with carbon. Do you have any thoughts about this perception, and do you feel like it affects your business at all? Have you ever felt like small carbon builders are passed over or not given full consideration because of marketing from the big boys?
Also, do you ever want to build mountain bikes or because it sounds like you have a pretty wide fabrication skillset, combine carbon with another material, like steel or ti?

The stuff you had in Richmond was amazing. You are pretty much the reason I don't think of carbon as a big company material anymore.

[Jayme]

Hi Nick,

Great to read about your journey to where you are today and I wish you continued success. Did you notice any measurable benefit from the Editor's Choice award back in '08 or does that sort of 'mainstream' recognition cause more headache?

Thanks for gettin' smoked!

Jayme

[Bob Ross]

Most everything lead to the idea of expensive molds and presses and little option to customize geometries. There was a couple examples of "tubed" carbon bikes, not really all that ideal as they were built around high cost tooling for joints and still not fully customizable.

Take a step back, remember you're a frame builder. This approach reminded me that what I needed to do was stick tubes together. It didn't hurt that Dedacciai had just started shipping a complete carbon rear stay kit including dropouts. So I took a traditional frame building approach. I mitered tubes, tacked them in a fixture and then completed the joining but instead of a torch I used dry carbon clothe and laminating epoxy. I consolidated the joinery with a vacuum bag.

Hi Nick, really appreciate your doing this. Two questions:

1) Is it useful, in an instructive way -- or, for that matter, even possible -- to make any generalizations about the different joinery methods for a carbon frame? I.e., cost of entry notwithstanding, are there reasons why mitered/tacked/laminated tubes might be a preferable method versus molded "monocoque" (sic) bladder whoozamawhatsits, or the glued-tubes-&-lugs that you've discussed elsewhere on this forum?

2) Irrespective of the market opportunites, is there anything carbon offers -- let's say "performance-wise" -- that can't be achieved with another material? (And vice versa.)

Thanks.