Espresso machines

[Christian Fox]

I know there are a number of espresso freaks around here, so I call on you. I really like espresso and I want to start making it at home. Where should I start on a machine and grinder? I'm assuming a semi-auto is way to go? Are the fully automatic ones any good or are they the equivalent of a faster backwards Dogma with EPS and a pie plate? It seems in the semi-auto realm there is a wide range in machines as far as maintenance and convenience go. I don't mind spending the dough for decent stuff, within reason. Thank you!

[WayneJ]

I know there are a number of espresso freaks around here, so I call on you. I really like espresso and I want to start making it at home. Where should I start on a machine and grinder? I'm assuming a semi-auto is way to go? Are the fully automatic ones any good or are they the equivalent of a faster backwards Dogma with EPS and a pie plate? It seems in the semi-auto realm there is a wide range in machines as far as maintenance and convenience go. I don't mind spending the dough for decent stuff, within reason. Thank you!

The two machines I think are perfect for home use are:

Gaggia Classic and
Rancilio Silvia

If you foam a lot of milk, the Silvia is slightly better

Pair these with a Gaggia MDF or Rancilio Rocky grinder and you're good to go.

[Christian Fox]

excellent, thank you Wayne

[AngryScientist]

Rancilio Rocky grinder.

i got one of these a few years back, highly recommend. i did a lot of research, and it's probably the best grinder for the price hands down. i literally use it every day, multiple times per day, and it produces a nice consistent grind. the key is the heavy-duty commercial motor it uses. cheaper (or just crapier) machines skimp on the motor, and grinding beans can be pretty power intensive leading to early motor overload/failure. the rocky is aces.

[stackie]

Really need a budget and to know what you like to make. If espresso only, then get a Silvia and PID it, you'll be golden.

If you do milk drinks, it's nice to be able to steam around the same time as your shot, so I'd consider the Crossland CC1 as the entry level. PID brew boiler, with thermoblock steam. This is the machine designed by Bill Crossland who brought the legendary GS3 to market.

Remember to save enough for a good burr grinder. I like the Mazzer mini or Compak k3. Compak being slightly cheaper, but very well built. The Mazzer being the classic.

If these suggestions are way under budget for you, let me know, I'll be happy to spend more of your money...

Jon

[jscott]

I got a Gaggia Classic recently. This is my first home machine, so I don't have much of a basis for comparison, but I'm happy with it. It comes up to temp quickly and is easy to operate. I'm seldom doing more than a couple doubles at a time, though. It also came with "crema enhancer" thingy that I haven't even tried yet...isn't that cheating?

I'd second what others have said about the grinder. I'm using a modified Solis 166 and it's probably marginal for espresso. I'm able to get some decent shots, by my own estimation, but I'd like something with a little more range so I could experiment a bit more.

Steaming milk into microfoam is also harder than it looks. I'm not even close to getting that right yet. I certainly have more respect for baristas who can get it all right, time after time.

[big shanty]

Used to have a Cellini Rocket at work. It was awesome.

[lukasz]

Really need a budget and to know what you like to make. If espresso only, then get a Silvia and PID it, you'll be golden.

If you do milk drinks, it's nice to be able to steam around the same time as your shot, so I'd consider the Crossland CC1 as the entry level. PID brew boiler, with thermoblock steam. This is the machine designed by Bill Crossland who brought the legendary GS3 to market.

Remember to save enough for a good burr grinder. I like the Mazzer mini or Compak k3. Compak being slightly cheaper, but very well built. The Mazzer being the classic.

If these suggestions are way under budget for you, let me know, I'll be happy to spend more of your money...

Jon

Listen to this man. That Crossland looks awesome. Didn't even know it existed.

[professerr]

OK, someone school me please. Is it reasonably possible to make a shot of espresso with a quality consumer level (e.g. Silvia or Crossroads) machine that is at the same level as what you'd get at Ritual/Blue Bottle/Four Barrel? How about milk drinks? Friends have gotten much fancier consumer machines than those, their coffee is sub-meh, and we all politely pretend otherwise until finally they revert back to more easily mastered french press and the like.

[false_aesthetic]

I'm used to the Breville Infuser (or whatever was in the price range 5 years ago). I thought it pulled a decent shot.
Then we picked up a Handpresso. Once we figured out the ground, etc it pulled an OK shot. But its more of a novelty item - broke in 2 years.
On to a Moka which, once we watched a youtube directions video, made some good brew.

Last week we inherited a Rancilio Silvia with a PID and got to try it back-to-back with a Olympia Cremina. Both are EFFING AWESOME but the Olympia wins on esotericnessocity, taste and looks -- Silvia looks like a Delorean to me -- and looses on price.

I'd recommend a Silvia in a second.

[Simonhi]

I bought a Rancilio Silvia / Rocky combo just before Xmas.

The most important tool I've got is a 0.1g set of scales, it means I can be sure to grind the same weight of coffee every time I load my portafilter.

I grind 18g into a plastic mug set on the scales, stir the clumped coffee grinds with a thin steel skewer (to knock out the clumps) and then load the PF. Tamp, temp surf the Silvia (Google it) and pull either 30g for a thick ristretto o r 36g if I'm making a latte, I mostly have the ristretto.

I get great shots every time.

The most important thing is great coffee beans, freshly roasted. I subscribe to a monthly delivery from Square Mile Coffee Roasters (UK) and keep the coffee in a jar in the freezer ensuring is stays freshest for longest.

I also found the use of a bottomless porterfilter to be the greatest teacher to ensure my dosing / tamping was consistent.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

I never knew that coffee could taste so good.

One final thing, most of, if not all the good advice I have garnered has been from the Home Barista site, loads of coffee dudes on there which helped steer me in the right direction.

I I ever upgrade in the near future it will be the grinder since this has the greatest impact on how good your coffee is, assuming of course that the machine is capable.

[Applesauce]

Gaggia Classic

I grew up in a house with a La Pavoni, but my wife and I are not espresso freaks. We have a Gaggia Classic, and aside from needing to be torn down to bare bones in the first two months of ownership, it's excellent. (Honestly, it's far more predictable and tolerant than any La Pavoni I've ever used...)

We also have a decent Breville conical burr grinder, but I think we could have done better on that front. There's definitely some truth to the idea that one needs to spend a fair sum on the the grinder, especially if one spends a fair sum on the machine itself.

[oldguy00]

I know there are a number of espresso freaks around here, so I call on you. I really like espresso and I want to start making it at home. Where should I start on a machine and grinder? I'm assuming a semi-auto is way to go? Are the fully automatic ones any good or are they the equivalent of a faster backwards Dogma with EPS and a pie plate? It seems in the semi-auto realm there is a wide range in machines as far as maintenance and convenience go. I don't mind spending the dough for decent stuff, within reason. Thank you!

I've had a Sylvia and Rocky in the past. Personally, I wouldn't do it again. Even for a skilled barista, the Sylvia can be difficult to get a good shot from. It isn't the most consistent machine, hard to get stable temps, etc. A PID helps -some-, but if you are going to drop $200+ on a PID, may as well just upgrade to a better machine IMHO. The Sylvia has rightfully earned the reputation of a machine that needs a lot of attention to make a good shot..

I think in the 1k range (when on sale), the Breville BES900XL is a good option with a lot of features.

To upgrade from something like that, then you are basically looking at a quality E51 group machine, like the Rocket Giotto line, about 1800 - 2k.

For a grinder, I'd get a Vario, about 400 I think. If you can afford a bit more, then a MACAP ($500-600).

You can also go a -lot- cheaper, on both the grinder and the espresso machine, but I wouldn't expect the same quality shots as you'll get from the better espresso bars.
If your main drinks are lattes and americanos, then go cheaper, you won't notice as much in the end product. But if you really like drinking straight espresso, you'll need to spend some $$.

[KittenMeat]

I'm going to echo the Silvia review:
a very tempermental machine. When it's good it's great, but every now and then even with the grind and roast being right it just won't pull a shot in the sweet spot.

That being said, the silvia is, for most, the first machine they get and really helps you learn the process of pulling a great shot.

You can find a used one for a decent price, and I recommend going that route to try it out.

[drewridesbikes]

I have a Gaggia Classic in excellent condition I would like to sell. I bought it about 12 years ago and made nightly lattes for my wife and me for years. I put in a new gasket and filter a few years ago but just haven't used it in a couple of years. It's been well maintained and kept clean. If anyone is interested let me know. Best way to contact me is at my email. Thanks for reading.
Drew E.
idrew@me.com

[Zimmermanbicycle]

Just threw a new set of seals in the group head of my Olympia Cremina 67 and pulled what I thought was a halfway decent shot (for me) but my grinder blows,the problem is I'm not sure I want another electrical appliance/piece of furniture in my kitchen,anyone have much experience with decent hand grinders?
-Eric

[arcadian]

Just threw a new set of seals in the group head of my Olympia Cremina 67 and pulled what I thought was a halfway decent shot (for me) but my grinder blows,the problem is I'm not sure I want another electrical appliance/piece of furniture in my kitchen,anyone have much experience with decent hand grinders?
-Eric

OE Lido Hand Grinder

[Zimmermanbicycle]

OE Lido Hand Grinder

just ordered this

[arcadian]

just ordered this

It is quite nice. Does a very good job.

[boxerboxer]

Agreed on the lowered convenience. I think the refillable capsules also make the processes less repeatable in that I think it would be a challenge to fill the things the same way twice without using a scale and some sort of tamping tool. I'm sure the machine is more or less dialed in for the disposable capsules.