Peter Verdone Design

[pvd]

Making Gravel Great Again.

Bi-planes are the future | Peter Verdone Designs

[skouri1]

looks like the canyon hoverbar. I know epoxies are strong, but I would still be frightened. I would feel much more comfortable if I was putting my weight on the bar clamped in the stem...but that would defeat the point a bit, no?
Unless you just wanted more space for putting your bike accessories :)

[Saab2000]

First image that came to mind was this....

[Scott G.]

I see your Cobble Gobbler and raise you......
The upper straight handlebar has the twist shifters for the Rohloff.


thorn.jpg

[David Tollefson]

Looks like an absolute hot mess to me, but kudos for being your own lab rat. Great things can happen thinking outside the box.

[holliscx]

In fishing it's called a honey hole

[sparky33]

This is some wild SOPWAMTOS.

I dig the complete disregard for drawing inside the conventional lines of wisdom.

[giordana93]

I dig originality and iconoclasm, but he kinda lost me at this. Actually, and I hate to be so critical of blog-level writing, but as an (ex-)academic this bluster without substance is pretty intolerable. There, I said it, hoping a little that I'm wrong and that there is genuine functionality added here....

I hate having to rescue the roadies but they aren’t capable of actually designing bikes....these de-couple the hand grips from the front wheel as traditional means limit geometry concepts

[andrew flowers]

That's why the mountain bike seat tube angle has been changed, modern geo bikes are steeper.
It's all interconnected, where the wheels are, and where you sit.

On a gravel bike, a dropper post (with no offset) effectively moves the saddle forward 2.5 degrees, (1 inch)
so the rear end may look short, but you're not sitting that far back.

-g

Nah

Seat tube is for climbing

With the dropper down sta doesn’t matter. If you run super short stays and a long front end the bike is out of whack descending very steep terrain with the body position changes that dictates

You lean further forward going downhill on the new bikes, and the lengthened chain stays help keep you balanced in that new position. 420 stays and shorter were for the frames of yesteryear

[GrantM]

Nah

we're not disagreeing on anything, and i never suggested that "super short" stays have any purpose on a longer FC bike.
Don't even really know why you responded to my earlier post, it doesn't relate to any point i was making.

Any of these discussions that dissect geo into bits completely misses the mark. It's about the whole.

-g

[colker]

Nah

Seat tube is for climbing

With the dropper down sta doesn’t matter. If you run super short stays and a long front end the bike is out of whack descending very steep terrain with the body position changes that dictates

You lean further forward going downhill on the new bikes, and the lengthened chain stays help keep you balanced in that new position. 420 stays and shorter were for the frames of yesteryear

Yes. Best technical trail bike in my garage has 26in wheels, longer 17.25in chainstays, tall bb and short front center w/ steep head angle. The front is quick and i chose lines easily but the longer stays keep me from endo. Longer stays also hook the rear tire on slippery steep climbs.

[rabo]

Every mile of a mixed surface ride there is a different bike that would be optimal.
Give me the bike that is optimal most of the time.
Short of MTB I can see that Seven being my only ride, road included.

To answer one of the questions: 650 wheel is stronger -and lighter than a 700 wheel , the 26 wheel even more so.
So cool to see the grunge offroad tourers picking up all the old stuff that flat out works.

[andrew flowers]

we're not disagreeing on anything, and i never suggested that "super short" stays have any purpose on a longer FC bike.
Don't even really know why you responded to my earlier post, it doesn't relate to any point i was making.

Any of these discussions that dissect geo into bits completely misses the mark. It's about the whole.

-g

I agree

It makes things tough when we look at spec sheets

Reach is the hot number in modern mountain bikes

Two bikes at 470 reach will handle very differently with one a 73sta unsagged, and the other 77 degrees

Would be nice if more mtbers looked at something akin to the saddle nose to bar center roadies employ

[pvd]

Two bikes at 470 reach will handle very differently

This bike has a frame reach of 511mm and a handlebar reach of 477mm.

[andrew flowers]

This bike has a frame reach of 511mm and a handlebar reach of 477mm.

Very curious how it handles with the rear end so short

[pvd]

Very curious how it handles with the rear end so short

It's freakin' sick. So fast wherever.


It's not that short of a rear end. I just did a 29er with 410mm, that's short. Missed opportunities | Peter Verdone Designs

[WheelNut]

Quite interesting. I'm guessing the effective seat tube angle ends up around 73.5-74 degrees? How tall are you Peter?

[e-RICHIE]

Making Gravel Great Again.

Your text uses this as a leaping off point:

We need these for progressive all-road geometries

What are progressive all-road geometries?

[false_aesthetic]

What are progressive all-road geometries?

Skunkworks influenced jargon, bruh.
----

For what it's worth, I'm interested in the design, PVD. But I have a hard time making sense of a few things and I have a hard time figuring out how this bike would be a better option for events like Crusher, DK, Land Rush, etc. To my eye, it is in line with your other MTB designs (granted 2* steeper HTA and a shorter R-C than your Blackbird) and is a horse for a (rather) specific course.

Dropper posts for gravel rollers? Maybe not. Dropper posts for something like BWR, totes fer sure. But hey, the cool thing about droppers is that you don't have to use them.
~ 90mm trail for BWR? On some sections, totes. Others? Not so much.
R-C + ESTA look right on to me. I think it's just the front/rear balance that I'm not getting just yet -- the front end just seems like it'd be pretty unweighted for the way I'm used to riding.


Bruh, can you walk us through the decisions + thought process w/out the blog-based hyperbole?
I might be a roadie that needs rescuing but it'd sure save my ego if you explained things in a kind manner — similar to the way my 3rd grade teacher explained long division to me.
FWIW, I read the posts about pepe le pew (2017) and the romulan rockstar (2018).

[e-RICHIE]

What are progressive all-road geometries?

Skunkworks influenced jargon, bruh.
----

That doesn't answer my question.