glue and tubulars

**Dave** · 09-02-2008

I am not asking how to glue them, as I have already done so (the belgian/Zank/etc methods) only on Alu rims/surface

What I need to know is there any differences between alu rims and carbon rims when using this method?

I have searched and some think you should sand the rim (gluing surface) and some swear against it.

discuss.

It is not any different in general terms. It's my experience that using Mastic one gives great results. Both carbon and aluminum rims can have release agent / grease on them left over from the mfg. You need to clean that up with cotton rags and a clean solvent such as goof off.

**zank** · 09-02-2008

cleanliness is godliness. Not sure if there are any other conisderations to be made. I really can't comment past that since I don't have any carbon wheels. But I think using Mastik One is the best place to start.

Have fun on the bling wheels though!

**Too Tall** · 09-02-2008

I've had best results with Mastik One for both aluminum and carbon. For both materials as Mike says CLEAN rims is the way to go. Use a clean solvent such as Goof Off to remove any mfg. residues. Use multiple coats of very thinly applied glue and you will be in good shape.

**JitteryJoe** · 09-02-2008

Originally Posted by Too Tall

I've had best results with Mastik One for both aluminum and carbon. For both materials as Mike says CLEAN rims is the way to go. Use a clean solvent such as Goof Off to remove any mfg. residues. Use multiple coats of very thinly applied glue and you will be in good shape.

I thought the reason why you sand is to remove that slick mfg. residue, at least for carbon rims. if you do a decent sanding, why would you need goof off?

+1 on the Mastik 1.

slight drift question for TT -- how many rims do you usually get out of a tube of Mastik 1 ? (trying to make sure my definition of "thinly applied" is same as yours, thanks)

by the way: before anyone recommends the can of Mastik 1 -- I've done that. But if you don't seal it real tight it hardens up and doesn't seem so cost effective any more!

**lex** · 09-02-2008

Cleaning with a solvent has always worked for me (20+yrs). No sanding.
There are a few traditionalist woodworkers out there that don't use biscuits or dowels to join table top planks together. They use an old fashion super sharp hand planer to make the joining surface as smooth as possible and just glue them together and they hold up forever.
Lex-

**coylifut** · 09-02-2008

I've come to the conclusion that the Belgian method is a complete misnomer perpetrated by the very nice and otherwise well informed folks at cyclocrossworld.com. At CX worlds in Italy, I did not see one tire glued up using tape/glue.

Day one, I walked around the paddock area at CX worlds and watched (and talked to) the Fidea wrenches gluing tubulars. They used mastik as a series of base layers on rim and tire and then layed down a bead with an upholstry adhesive as the final touch just before mounting the tire. I asked directly "Fastak?" No was the answer. They can't get it any more. They use the Fastak substitute to create a gooey, more stretchy bond atop the mastik. I suspect they do it because mastik drys really hard and when it gets loose, it tends to unzip from the rim.

Back to carbon. I clean the rim with acetone and then a very light scrubbing with fine sandpaper.

**EnginCycles** · 09-02-2008

Originally Posted by coylifut

Back to carbon. I clean the rim with acetone and then a very light scrubbing with fine sandpaper.

this is backwards thinking. you remove the dirt and grease but then add the finest dust one can make? you need to have the degreaser (acetone or what not) be the last step. keep cleaning until the towel shows no signs of black dust. this will take WAY longer than you think. that dust is very tenacious and will keep making the rag black.

Cheers,
Drew

**twowheels** · 09-02-2008

Originally Posted by fishtaco

I thought the reason why you sand is to remove that slick mfg. residue, at least for carbon rims. if you do a decent sanding, why would you need goof off?

+1 on the Mastik 1.

slight drift question for TT -- how many rims do you usually get out of a tube of Mastik 1 ? (trying to make sure my definition of "thinly applied" is same as yours, thanks)

by the way: before anyone recommends the can of Mastik 1 -- I've done that. But if you don't seal it real tight it hardens up and doesn't seem so cost effective any more!

syrface prep is a judgment call, especially with carbon. you won't do any harm lightly sanding carbon with a fine grain paper. i have done so in the past with a new rim. you do it to slightly roughen the epoxy layer and to remove any release agent or other residue. then, you need to wipe the surface with a clean cotton cloth to remove particulate. i then usually wipe again with some acetone. goof off seems to have a constituent that can take several hours to fully gas off. also, goof off is nasty, toxic stuff. it seems worse than acetone. thus, i prefer acetone.

i usually buy cans as i tend to glue tires several at a time. as i recall, i can't get two tires mounted out of two tubes of mastik, at least with a griffo or conti road tire because the tires drink up lots of glue.

the amount of glue to use is also a judgment call but i typically with new rims and tires put two coats each and then a wet layer just before mounting the tire.

last tip, the amount of time needed between glue coats is also a judgment call and depends a lot upon the temperature. if its hot, you don't need as much time between coats. i prefer mounting when its warm for another reason--i like to open up all the doors in the garage and blow some air through with a fan to minimize the amount of vapors i breathe.

**nicadog** · 10-05-2008

OK, so I have a problem that I could use some help with. I tried to glued up a Grifo 32s to brand new Velocity Escape rim.

Here were the steps I went through.

Lightly sanded rim
cleaned well with acetone
wiped clean with clean dry cloth
lightly filed grifo tape to remove any potential residual latex

put two coats of glue (masik one) on tire - let dry between coats

put two coats of glue on rim - let dry ( at least a day) between coats

Put another coat of glue on rim (not too thick - not too thin I thought), waited about 10 minutes and then put tire on. Adjusted centering where needed, inflated to 60 lbs, rolled tire on the floor and let sit overnight.

In the am, deflated tire and check for seal. It was terrible, some spots were OK but others just didn't take at all it seemed. I pulled the tire off the rim and the pictures below show what it looked like.

I've glued tires many times before using the same approach and never had a problem like this.

I'm open to any helpful suggestions you all might have - and going to clinchers isn't a helpfuls suggestion in this case - these are for 'cross and I couldn't imagine riding 'cross on clinchers.

Thanks a bunch.