Chris King Needle Bearing & Tool Question

[krooj]

So I've noticed that the hub isn't moving freely around the axle on my King Classic rear, and I'm fairly sure that what's causing my issues is that needle bearing in the freehub is gummed up something awful. In fact, I'm 100% certain, because I just did a partial tear down.

Does King sell that little socket needed to remove the end cap that keeps the guts of their FH bodies inside... the FH body? Also, is that needle bearing a standard bearing that I can order anywhere or do I need to get a replacement from King?

I would like to avoid buying the whole hub toolkit, if possible. It's basically an over-priced bearing press, from what I can see.

Slightly OT, but it's unbelievable how poorly sealed the internals of this FH body are. For a $350 hub, I'd expect much better.

[dashDustin]

Please tell us more about the hub's life. I've never seen that needle bearing damaged...kind of curious what it's been through.

[krooj]

Please tell us more about the hub's life. I've never seen that needle bearing damaged...kind of curious what it's been through.

Two southern Ontario winters and zero maintenance. That hub has been raced and commuted on, and has seen two Open Pros laced to it in replacement from wear & tear. One thing that I've noticed is King hubs don't fare well in weather below -10C. What happens is that you start to loose the ability to back pedal.

I can't say that I'm totally disappointed as I don't expect much of anything I use on a bike to take the wear and tear I put it through. I just wish that for the cash, they used an extra O-ring seal or gasket to keep crap out.

[carlos]

krooj....

1. how old is the hub?


2. when was the last time it was fully serviced (not partial, not a quick cleaning, not a check over) with the king hub tool?

2.1 if the hub was serviced, was the king ring drive grease used to lubricate the needle bearing?


3. unless the surface of the needle bearings, or the trackway they run on, are damaged, they won't need to be replaced.


4. "It's basically an over-priced bearing press" - today, the most widely available bearing presses and _especially_ pullers employ the sort of technology prevalent during the time of charlemagne. the king hub service tool is a few light years ahead of that.


5. king hubs are sealed quite well. in fact, a lot of riders _love_ to complain that they are sealed so well, that the hub prevents them from winning their local wednesday night world championship sprints, and ultimately, lucrative endorsement deals.

5.1 here is a mild/common/typical shot of a driveshell with a little bit of smut on it. they get waaaay worse than this.




6. when the driveshell was removed from the hub, did the grease on it have the consistency seen in this pic?

regular



or in this one (old world style)?



or this one (extreme chunky)? i realize this is a shot of an axle but it's not uncommon to find this sort of chunky smut on on the driveshell.

[krooj]

krooj....

1. how old is the hub?


2. when was the last time it was fully serviced (not partial, not a quick cleaning, not a check over) with the king hub tool?

2.1 if the hub was serviced, was the king ring drive grease used to lubricate the needle bearing?


3. unless the surface of the needle bearings, or the trackway they run on, are damaged, they won't need to be replaced.


4. "It's basically an over-priced bearing press" - today, the most widely available bearing presses and _especially_ pullers employ the sort of technology prevalent during the time of charlemagne. the king hub service tool is a few light years ahead of that.


5. king hubs are sealed quite well. in fact, a lot of riders _love_ to complain that they are sealed so well, that the hub prevents them from winning their local wednesday night world championship sprints, and ultimately, lucrative endorsement deals.

5.1 here is a mild/common/typical shot of a driveshell with a little bit of smut on it. they get waaaay worse than this.




6. when the driveshell was removed from the hub, did the grease on it have the consistency seen in this pic?

regular



or in this one (old world style)?



or this one (extreme chunky)? i realize this is a shot of an axle but it's not uncommon to find this sort of chunky smut on on the driveshell.

1. 2.5 Years
2. Never
3. No damage on the axle. Can't really see the needle bearing without removing the guts of the FH body
5.1 It's *much* nastier than that
6. Will check tomorrow night

Thanks! I'll ring King tomorrow.

[carlos]

krooj....regardless of temperature, zero maintenance will kill anything.

best case scenario, get the hub serviced. the hub tool takes the entire thing apart. clean it up with a good (but not caustic) solvent. in most cases no parts will need to be replaced.

WD40, as maligned as it's always been, is about the best solvent out there for the real heavy grime. cheap, effective, and gentle. and you get to hear the purists howl. purists love to howl.

worst case scenario, with zero service, the grease thickens up, and when that happens it can no help the seals and o-rings do their job. the hub ran dry in this case. the driveshell helical spline may have ended up getting chewed up and it'll need to be replaced. about $65. there is a stainless option but that doesn't mean it won't need regular maintenance too.

from the King website

What's the hub service tool for? Do I need one?

Answer: The Hub Service Tool is only necessary for complete service of the hubs (removal and reinstallation of all press fit parts). This service should be done every 6 months to 1 year depending on riding conditions (more or less may be required depending on riding conditions). For more information on hub maintenance and service, check our hub technical information page or contact our technical services (800.523.6008, extension 231) to talk through it and/or arrange service.

if you inspect the hub again, clean the helical splines of the drive shell. hopefully it looks pretty close to the one on the right in this photo.





check for any wear/notching on the splines as in these photos.






also, check for corrosion which might be more likely given the zero maintenance. it'll appear as rouch, dark, splotches on the surface of any anodized aluminium parts.

[the bottle ride]

Great post on maintenance Carlos- thank you for all the details. Just added this to my bookmarks.
My experience with King hubs have always been positive other than the price- thus they are the common denominator with most of my bikes. The only issues I have had with the rear hub (used on mtb bike that I trashed on) was due to my neglience with lack of maintenance which required replacement of the bearings.

[Mikej]

I dont think you can source that bearing locally, I once tore up a needle bearing and called King - there is a hub / axle measurement stamped on the axle (I believe) you need to supply to get the correct sized bearing - they have a very tight tolerance. It was like $12, the also sent me a bottle of the Ring Lube and some other parts to update my hub.

[nahtnoj]

Wiki caliber King info here.

[krooj]

So I just called King, and they won't sell the bearing on it's own, but they do stock the spline driver. Unfortunately they will not ship to individuals in Canada. Calling Aspire, I guess.

Update:

Last night I managed to get the shell out of the hub body, but it was pretty seized in there and needed a good amount of pulling to come free. The splines were indeed slightly corroded. Good news is that I've got some tools and lube on the way to clean this thing up.

[carlos]

the bottle ride, nahtnoj...i'm happy to provide it.

same here...i have a set on the mountain bike that are about 14 years old. one hub shell color swap and several different rims. i've yet to replace a single internal part with regular service happening about every 8 months.

insight into the cost...




krooj...excellent!

download this pdf and scroll down to complete service on p.28. make careful note on the orientation of the various parts of the tool. especially the cone washer. make sure to always place the split rings on the extension first then the cone washer. when placed in the opposite order, the split ring will chew up the threads at the end of the t-handle. not good.

a toothbrush gets everything nice and spotless. you'll also want to get hold of a dull (so it doesn't cut a seal) razor blade to remove the snap rings. a rubber mallet/hammer, rags, and about an hour for the rear hub and you're set.

[krooj]

the bottle ride, nahtnoj...i'm happy to provide it.

same here...i have a set on the mountain bike that are about 14 years old. one hub shell color swap and several different rims. i've yet to replace a single internal part with regular service happening about every 8 months.

insight into the cost...




krooj...excellent!

download this pdf and scroll down to complete service on p.28. make careful note on the orientation of the various parts of the tool. especially the cone washer. make sure to always place the split rings on the extension first then the cone washer. when placed in the opposite order, the split ring will chew up the threads at the end of the t-handle. not good.

a toothbrush gets everything nice and spotless. you'll also want to get hold of a dull (so it doesn't cut a seal) razor blade to remove the snap rings. a rubber mallet/hammer, rags, and about an hour for the rear hub and you're set.

Thanks for the tip!

I'd just like to share that de-greasing the internals of these hubs is a breeze (I didn't have to remove the drive or driven rings) if you blast it with WD40. I just let the wheel sit on its side with the drive-side facing up (after removing the FH body, mind you) and sprayed the rings with WD. Whatever old grease was in there was carried out by the WD40. I did the same to my FH body, which was both notched and corroded, to get it nice and clean. Because King's lube wasn't available locally, I used 5W-20 Castrol motor oil to lube the rings and needle bearing. The hub is slightly louder now than it was before, but everything is spinning just fine.

One thing I should note is that if you ride these hubs in sub-freezing temps, pay close attention to the oil or lube you use. I found in one instance (before I used Castrol), either water had got into the rings, or the oil I had used had much too high a freezing temperature, and, consequently, the hub would freewheel in both directions :D I suppose what had happened is that the splines of the driven ring and drive ring had frozen grease between them and instead of engaging, one just rode on top of the other.

Curious, what is the duty cycle of the drive and driven rings in these hubs? They are steel, right?

[Too Tall]

By golly this is going to our WIKI. Thanks for the effort and insights.

[the bottle ride]

Thank you Carlos for sharing all the info and thank you Krooj for sharing- great thread. Very timely as I may try and do some maintenance on a SS king hub....ahh who I am kidding. I have no time, and probably best to leave it to the pros.

King is pricey- but product is great and their manufacturing process is something that I believe.

A question: Is the general forum area the place to ask technical questions or opinions on bike parts?

[Too Tall]

TheBottleRide - Yes, general forum is a good place to ask questions