Minneapolis Social Injustice and Related

[Matthew Strongin]

Police and NG marching in the streets and "lighting up" its residents:

Please make this go viral. I am begging you. Police and National Guard patrolling neighborhood and shooting civilians on their own property. Make America see this, I beg you. [Minneapolis] : Bad_Cop_No_Donut

Every person in the chain of command from those terrorist cops up to the high level in the state needs to be fired, removed from office, and held liable for that assault.

[thollandpe]

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video...PBk.mp4?tag=10

Curfew does not apply to private property. It’s OK to be on your front porch. And to think there were groups upset by the tyranny of being required to wear a mask in public.

[sk_tle]

I haven't read this thread, so I don't know if this is smart to be posting... but a couple of years ago Karen and I had a Schenectady police officer pointing his gun right at us for a few minutes. It's relevant, I think.

The circumstances are that when Karen and I went out to dinner we'd take Uber rides because we like to have a couple of glasses of wine or maybe cocktails and we aren't going to drive after we've done that.

So one Saturday evening we got dressed up and used the app. Pretty soon the ride arrived, the driver was a young man of color. We were having a pleasant ride, he was telling us he just moved up from the city with his wife, they were renting in the next town over and hoped to buy a house. He was asking how the schools were and if houses were affordable in Schenectady when at a red light all of a sudden we were surrounded by three police cars. The officer behind us got on his loudspeaker and ordered the driver to shut the car off, open the door from the outside, keep his hands where they could see them and when he got out to walk backwards toward the officer. The driver was immediately frozen with fear. Karen talked him through getting out of the car. Meantime I saw the officer on the other side of the street on the other side of his car elbows braced on the hood pointing his gun right at us in the back seat.

As soon as the driver got out of the car the officer on the loudspeaker told him he was going to be OK, everything was alright with him. He asked who was in the back seat. "My clients." "Your clients??" "I'm an Uber!"

The ordered us out. As soon as they saw Karen come out with her hands up - she was on that side - dressed, bejeweled and perfumed they relaxed and when I clambered out they started calling out "Mistaken identity!"

They went through procedure, though, asking us to repeat where we came from, where we were going and they did look behind the back seat to make sure nobody was hiding there. They told us they were pursuing somebody and got information they got into that vehicle. I think the driver's previous fare was sketchy and they just missed whoever that was. Until we got back in it didn't register with us that the rear windows were tinted and they couldn't see us in there.

But the point. At no time during the event was I truly scared. I was bewildered and apprehensive but I thought "We didn't do anything. We'll be fine". But for the driver? It was a completely different experience. He was terrified. He was crying when he got back in the car. He could barely drive, the half mile to the restaurant was more frightening than the police situation.

For some people, a police encounter like that, it doesn't matter to them that they didn't do anything. I bet that young man thought that the best outcome possible was that he was going to be face down in the street.

And note: if that ever happens to you, tip the Uber driver in cash. The app won't let you tip enough for a situation like this one.

I am white and I think being european I would have been as afraid as your uber driver at being pointed a gun at. This is just so wrong. There is not a single good reason to point a gun at a civilian if he/she hasn't made any menace or is carrying a gun in its hand already. Police forces all over the world neutralize or subdue people without using their weapon. Putting the gun out of the holster should be the last resort.

What society you are living in where being pointed a killing machine at is considered a normal thing ?

[Jeffrey Borisch]

Pinched from elsewhere and slightly modified but for my money, spot-on.

The problem is that white culture sees racism as nothing but conscious hate when it is vastly more complex than that. Racism in the USA is an insidious system of social, economic and political machinery set up generations ago to work on the behalf of whites, at other people’s expense. It exists and operates whether white people know it, or like it, or not. Racism is a cultural disease. It is so insidious that it doesn’t care if you're a white person who likes black people or has black friends; it’s still going to find a way to infect how you deal with or feel about folks who don’t look like you. Racism looks merely like hate, but hate is just one manifestation. Privilege is another. Access is another. Ignorance is another. Apathy is another. Accumulated, consolidated wealth is another. The inability or unwillingness to see the plight of black folks, another. And on, and on, and on. It is a monstrously powerful system, a fluid into which we are born, raised and live. We are breathing it, swimming in it, and subject to its infections until we die. It’s not a cold that you "just get over". There is no anti-racist certification class, no quick and easy fix. It’s a set of socio-economic traps and cultural values that are in constant play. It’s something you have to keep fighting, bailing out of the boat of your life and our culture in order to keep from drowning in it. It’s hard, never ending work, but it’s the price we pay for our history, our culture, our power, our ownership of everything, and it's what we need to do to make our country a better place. And it extends to how we treat the rest of the world, too.

...snip...

Thank you for sharing that. Along the same lines, these two series taught me an immense amount about our history and how we got where we are.

Seeing White – Scene on Radio
The Land That Never Has Been Yet – Scene on Radio

[thollandpe]

Here are the police smashing the windows and puncturing the tires of a car, and then tazing the two black people inside who are out after curfew. Notice the immediate and extreme escalation of force, and how they handle them even after they are restrained.

Also notice in the first few seconds the reaction of the woman in the car ahead, to give you an idea of the relative fear experienced by white and black people in the same environment.

Atlanta officers fired after AUC students tased, pulled from car Saturday night | News | cbs46.com

[j44ke]

Just a few things. My impressions. Generalizations. Not comprehensive.

Most urban police forces have become an arm of the real estate market & property tax collection. They are the first step in securing a neighborhood so values can begin to rise and people with money will begin to invest & improve buildings. In a way then the destruction of buildings make sense, because the perception is that the city values buildings more than it values people. Or at least, certain types of people. And the cops function as an occupying force, rather than community members.

Civil forfeiture and the movement of monies from civil forfeiture into police union funds has created a freelance - or extra-civic - element to the interaction of police with the public. Plenty of documented claims in NYC of stop & frisks happening coincidently on payday when many people are carrying their pay (in cash) with them in neighborhoods where cash is accepted as a sign of illegal activity. It changes the reletionship between police and the public, and it changes the mentality of police members and adds a mafiosi aspect to police unions.

What began as a expression of outrage from a black community in Minneapolis has been co-opted by a number of loosely organized quasi-political factions whose goals are disorder. But the largest group of disaffected people joining the actions are young people. For them, COVID has been yet another moment when they’ve been asked to “wait” (along with Biden and many political issues) while old people deal with something that uses up a lot of money but does not (at least, as perceived from their perspective) affect young people in the majority. If young people and urban minorities organize productively, there could be a very valuable resurgence in the civil rights movement of the 1960’s.

Violence isn’t the answer, but an answer may come from it. Eventually. Or we will have more violence. Later.

[theflashunc]

We should be ashamed.....

Where is our countries leadership when we need them - golfing (he cheats) or tweeting out some random crap that means nothing

Grow a set dumphead

The problem for him politically is he's caught between a rock and a hard place. Try to appear Presidential and call for calm and you risk alienating your law & order base. Come down hard on the side of the police here and you alienate, well, everyone else.

And like any great leader, he can't make a decision. But my guess is he'll continue to inflame division and look to drive even deeper wedges between all of us.

[skouri1]

The thing that stuns me really is that with bodycams and crowds of witnesses with cell phone, they still do this stuff. It's just unbelievable. The original incident being the most egregious--I have not yet been able to watch it and am not sure I can, even thoughtI acknowledge that is important to confront these horrifying incidents. In the video you posted above, Todd, I cannot believe they would drag people out of their car/tase them / smash their windows and knife their tires because they are driving on the street after curfew. it just blows my mind. In that video they look at least as bad as any vandal. If their default response is to destroy /drag/tase etc --heat of the moment or not--I'm not surprised there are so many tragedies in this country. This is totally a situation that could have been handled with a civil conversation and (at worst) a ticket.

[choke]

The specific mention of left-wing extremists using antifa-like tactics was all Barr. And a departure from what the governor and mayor were saying. It’s a lie, and a setup for the selective and uneven application of “justice.”

Ahhh. He did say 'it appears' but it's certainly only a theory at this point rather than fact. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been any group who has had members concretely identified. If I had to guess I would venture to say that there are both left and right groups that are jumping in to throw fuel on the fire.

[choke]

All of those videos posted are just insane.....I'm in complete agreement that everyone involved or in charge should be fired and prosecuted.

I think that a lot of people who watch those will have a hard time ever trusting a police officer again.

[monadnocky]

Police and NG marching in the streets and "lighting up" its residents:

Please make this go viral. I am begging you. Police and National Guard patrolling neighborhood and shooting civilians on their own property. Make America see this, I beg you. [Minneapolis] : Bad_Cop_No_Donut

fucking hell

edit: content-less and repetitive of Richard's post, apologies. But.... fucking hell. "Light them up??"

[dashDustin]

Police and NG marching in the streets and "lighting up" its residents:

Please make this go viral. I am begging you. Police and National Guard patrolling neighborhood and shooting civilians on their own property. Make America see this, I beg you. [Minneapolis] : Bad_Cop_No_Donut

I just can't really comprehend this. Has the original source for the video been identified?

[sk_tle]

Apparently in LA, the mayor initiated a curfew while the people were already out only for the LAPD police to disallow people from going home and force them to turn back under the fire of white supremacists. So yeah, we can definitely say that the LAPD police is officially ran and directed by the KKK and white supremacists orgs.

[choke]

Bike cops in action

Twitter

It seems to me that the police are out of control everywhere.

[choke]

I just can't really comprehend this. Has the original source for the video been identified?

‘Light ‘Em Up!’: Video Appears To Show Law Enforcement Shooting Paint Rounds At Mpls. Residents On Their Porch – WCCO | CBS Minnesota

[thollandpe]

Ahhh. He did say 'it appears' but it's certainly only a theory at this point rather than fact. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been any group who has had members concretely identified. If I had to guess I would venture to say that there are both left and right groups that are jumping in to throw fuel on the fire.

Yes, there is no question that anarchists from both left-wing and right-wing groups are using this as an opportunity to stir things up. Some of them must have been caught.

There is also no question that some of these actors are from neo-Nazi accelerationist groups. No question. And yet the head of our Department of Justice, and also his boss mention only left wing and antifa. Barr knows exactly what antifa is and isn't. Presumably to make a blanket designation for a non-entity to be a terrorist group so that anti-terrorist tactics can be used against any left-wing organization he wants to target. Again, the Attorney General of the United States of America, our "top cop" who oversees the FBI, ATF, DEA, and US Marshals, is openly and obviously lying to us.

[moondog-sparky]

briefly scanned most of the pages here and thought i'd chime in. while i consider myself a "law and order" kind of guy, i am awfully leery of how modern policing has evolved and how it's currently being carried out / enforced on all people, and particularly those of color. and it pains me to say this, but more and more i lean towards it is "most cops", rather than just the "few bad apples". much of that is based on first-hand, direct experience i've had myself and from family members. i won't post that here, but can elaborate if folks care.

based on discussions with my dad - retired Army guy who coffees regularly with cops - and talks i've had with cop buddies, policing took a dramatic turn 20-25 years ago. this turn occurred when:

1. police unions began to emphasize cop-safety + first-responder as hero syndrome. we have always cared for cop safety and we have always considered our front-line guys as hero's, as we should. but we - and i refer to the collective we of society - also understood that this was an inherently risky profession and that the goal was to serve the community at that risk. however, the unions began to push members and agencies to focus strongly on "cop must get home safely to family...no matter what". for any interaction that involved a police shooting..."cop got home safe? good shoot". failure to comply from some perceived thug...."cop got home safe? good beat down". cop felt intimidated by a possible felon..."cop safe? good choke". and so on. couple this with the first-responder hero setup - and to be clear, they are hero's i'm just questioning the need to be idolized - and cops believe "any means necessary" when referring to their safety. they have been trained to secure their safety first and then assess the situation after. this really originated within their own unions and was not agency policy as a whole.

2. militarization of the police / war on drugs. couple this step with the above and you have what we have today. in order to combat the "war on drugs", i.e. war on inner cities, poor people, mentally handicapped folks, etc. police forces upscaled their equipment, their armories, their body armor, their appearances in such a way as to be virtually indistinguishable from soldiers in combat. police agencies were infused with cash and gear returning from foreign wars, along with well-trained vets who transitioned to cops. in general, i don't have a major issue with this...but in my opinion, it does create a mindset of "when all you have is a hammer, everything must be a nail". if you have the training for heavy-duty combat....well, you're gonna feel the "need" to use it at some point. not to mention, this appeals to the folks who enjoy the tacti-cool lifestyle. and in full transparency, i am pro 2A and stated so in the mass shooting thread.

reminds me of a vacation i took in Belize 8yrs ago and the Vice Cop i met from Austin, TX. super nice guy. very well spoken and educated. BUT - when we discussed his job and things he's seen and done, it shocked me how he described basically shitting on civil liberties of mostly black, inner city people, well, just because. and he was grinning the entire time he talked about wiping down car hoods with thugs faces for some trivial violation, or storming a house and taking a guy who fought back out in the yard and beating them senseless. i pressed him multiple times on this, saying what about due process, what about just neutralizing the threat with only necessary force. he looked at me like i was crazy. he told me straight up that policing, particularly that focused on drug interdiction / gang warfare, was only about containment and not stopping it, or justice, or healing communities. basically, his mindset was that he and his team's sole focus was to "keep that foul shit over there on that side of the line" and not spilling out into the "regular communities". by any means necessary. granted, he related a few stories of drug-houses that frankly made me want to vomit, but i don't feel that allows for free-for-all head busting, no matter what.

all this may be slightly off topic, but i am definitely alarmed by the strong arm tactics of the law. it's atrocious what goes on and many of us, myself included, look the other way because it's not us. well... it us. all of us. and i totally agree with the civil forfeiture BS that was described above. truly can't believe that goes on in the good ole USA.

[Matthew Strongin]

Bike cops in action

Twitter

It seems to me that the police are out of control everywhere.

Unreal.

[sk_tle]

briefly scanned most of the pages here and thought i'd chime in. while i consider myself a "law and order" kind of guy, i am awfully leery of how modern policing has evolved and how it's currently being carried out / enforced on all people, and particularly those of color. and it pains me to say this, but more and more i lean towards it is "most cops", rather than just the "few bad apples". much of that is based on first-hand, direct experience i've had myself and from family members. i won't post that here, but can elaborate if folks care.

based on discussions with my dad - retired Army guy who coffees regularly with cops - and talks i've had with cop buddies, policing took a dramatic turn 20-25 years ago. this turn occurred when:

1. police unions began to emphasize cop-safety + first-responder as hero syndrome. we have always cared for cop safety and we have always considered our front-line guys as hero's, as we should. but we - and i refer to the collective we of society - also understood that this was an inherently risky profession and that the goal was to serve the community at that risk. however, the unions began to push members and agencies to focus strongly on "cop must get home safely to family...no matter what". for any interaction that involved a police shooting..."cop got home safe? good shoot". failure to comply from some perceived thug...."cop got home safe? good beat down". cop felt intimidated by a possible felon..."cop safe? good choke". and so on. couple this with the first-responder hero setup - and to be clear, they are hero's i'm just questioning the need to be idolized - and cops believe "any means necessary" when referring to their safety. they have been trained to secure their safety first and then assess the situation after. this really originated within their own unions and was not agency policy as a whole.

A bad policy that can only escalate sadly.

2. militarization of the police / war on drugs. [...]

all this may be slightly off topic, but i am definitely alarmed by the strong arm tactics of the law. it's atrocious what goes on and many of us, myself included, look the other way because it's not us. well... it us. all of us. and i totally agree with the civil forfeiture BS that was described above. truly can't believe that goes on in the good ole USA.

related reading (already 4y old):
Why I Hated Being a Cop | The Marshall Project

[ides1056]

I just can't really comprehend this. Has the original source for the video been identified?

an architect friend in LA posted it on fbook

can't say more than that and what seems plain as day in the video