Virus thread, the political one.

[vertical_doug]

^This

Nature Magazine had a podcast discussing the US response to the virus. Historically, the US has always scored well in these situations because as the richest most scientifically advanced country, we had the most tools to deal with a crisis. But in any WHO or other agency scenario/stress test/assessment, they never considered that US leadership (The President) would try to sabotage the response. It wasn't even considered as a possible scenario. But this is exactly what happened.

University of Michigan has released their plan for the fall and it makes a lot of sense. However, my daughter points out that if it goes too well, she expects the President to target the university for the mask policy with a tweet and then the orange guard show up on campus to protest with guns and such. (Considering this is what happened at the state capital, a very real possibility in our opinion)

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Well with the virus, Trump has proven beyond doubt he is insane.

Now for the frightening prospect, what if the current spread we are seeing actually is the summer lull? Some scientist thought maybe the disease would be slowed and disappear in the summer with the sun and heat. The disease is highly infectious and still spreading, but that doesn't mean the summer hasn't slowed it down a little/a lot. I can't wait till the fall to find out the answer to this.

[Matthew Strongin]

I view opening schools as a high risk but as also high reward activity. There are a lot of people that can't afford to stay home with their kids all day or even to feed them. and younger kids in particular are going to miss out a lot of social lessons by staying away from their peers all day. but we also know that schools are a prime infection vector for all kinds of other diseases, this shouldn't be any different.

I think if we had real leadership at the federal level and everyone took this serious from the get go we could have had enough containment on the spread of the virus that kids could go back to school (with significant modifications) and this should have been a priority. Unfortunately part of the trade-off is that we'd also miss out on some of the other medium to high risk stuff with lower rewards that people decided were VERY important. Like going to the bar or the hair salon.

One of the major factors going on right now I'm afraid is that you simply just can't fix stupidity.

This continues to frustrate me to no end. If we had prioritized things like getting kids back to school in the fall over being able to eat inside a restaurant now we might have had a fighting chance to get the virus under control enough to pull that off. But we didn't, and now it's too late so we get to have fun debates about how many sick kids is enough to keep schools remote and whether or not kids can spread covid19 to adults. We, collectively, failed our kids.

[BBB]

It's not failing the kids, it's failing full stop. You've failed the dead, the sick, the ones who lost their job or lost their business, the ones who worry about losing their job or business, families kept apart and so on. And all because you have a complete f*ckwit at the helm and a number of likeminded individuals in positions of responsibility (the Governor of Florida for example). The virus is not going to just go away so Trump can claim, as he's stated on TV, that he's right. It requires committed and sensible leadership that listens to experts. You don't have this. It also requires people who can get behind the committed and sensible leadership and collectively do the right thing to lessen the impact. You don't have this either. You do have people protesting with guns about their freedoms while the numbers of dead continue to rise. You have a gross leadership failure coupled with morons who just don't get it.

We are on our second lockdown in metropolitan Melbourne and mask wearing in public is to be made mandatory from Wednesday. No one is in the streets getting their knickers in a twist. We have had committed and sensible leadership, but with a few laxities (security guards at quarantine hotels and a large family gathering or two) we are back in lockdown. It spreads that easily. What part of this doesn't Trump understand? He needs to resign and let someone else try and do a better job.

[Mark Kelly]

... potentially turning schools into incubators.

This has happened over here. Most of Australia has done well with suppressing the disease but my state (Victoria) is in its second wave which is occuring in clusters. Several custers associated with schools, including the second largest cluster yet (the largest was associated with high rise state funded social housing, promptly christened the vertical cruise ships).

[vertical_doug]

Remember how surprised the doctors were he could 'ace' it. (his words not mine)

You to can take the test and compare yourself to trump...

Trump says he aced this cognitive test. Can you? - Las Vegas Sun News

[caleb]

You to can take the test and compare yourself to trump...

Trump says he aced this cognitive test. Can you? - Las Vegas Sun News

Is this a test you give to someone after a stroke to see if they're functioning at a basic level before discharge?

To echo the article, why would a sitting president be given such a test?

[gregl]

Is this a test you give to someone after a stroke to see if they're functioning at a basic level before discharge?

To echo the article, why would a sitting president be given such a test?

To support application of the 25th Amendment?

Greg

[vertical_doug]

Is this a test you give to someone after a stroke to see if they're functioning at a basic level before discharge?

To echo the article, why would a sitting president be given such a test?

This is what he took in January 2018 as part of his physical with Dr. Ronnie Jackson.
If you recall, November 2017, Trump had difficulty drinking water with two hands from a bottle at the podium.

If you have dementia, this is a really hard test.

In the Chris Wallace interview, he was getting mad when Chris was saying the test was easy, but I also saw panic on his face his face when Chris mentioned counting backwards from 100 by 7.

[Sbti]

He kept saying he took this "recently". When was that exactly? There also was never an explanation for his rushed visit to Walter Reed on Saturday, November 16th. They lied that he didn't have much to do that afternoon and just wanted to get a head start on the annual physical. And the goobers say Joe has dementia.

This test is hard! Are those animals the ones that Don Jr. and Eric kill for fun?

[monadnocky]

I mentioned this before, but to be clear: These tests - the MOCA, as well as many others - are administered for a variety of reasons and are commonly administered to older individuals. They are used as a basic screening tool in order to assess level of consciousness, the presence of delirium or dementia, sequelae of stroke or brain injury, and so forth. In and of themselves, low scores on mental status tests are indicative of nothing specific and would require more neuropsychological assessment to determine the cause of the low score. Perhaps obviously, these tests have a very low floor and an extremely low ceiling. They are not tests of intellectual ability - they are used, in conjunction with other tests and clinical observation - to ensure that someone's basic cognitive architecture is intact. I use similar tests to determine if someone meets basic requirements in order to proceed with a more comprehensive neuropsychological evaluation.

So, why was Trump (presumably) administered the MOCA? Could be for a variety of very mundane reasons (i.e., it's part of a standardized physical exam for individuals over the age of 65 for that particular provider- perhaps previous older Presidents have been administered one while they were in office and either never thought twice about it, or just didn't spout off about how they were geniuses for getting a high score on it afterwards.). It could be for something more ominous, but there's no evidence for the latter.

We just don't know and presuming anything would be pure speculation. The fact that he took a mental status exam means nothing without more context.

[lumpy]

Is the test taker supposed to copy the cube freehand, or follow the 1-5, A-E sequence? Because if it's the latter, I don't see how you do i. Also, where is the elephant?

[monadnocky]

Is the test taker supposed to copy the cube freehand, or follow the 1-5, A-E sequence? Because if it's the latter, I don't see how you do i. Also, where is the elephant?

The subtests are separate. The test-taker is supposed to alternate connecting numbers and letters (1-A-2-B-3-C and so forth... a very basic variant of the "Trails" neuropsychological test). The cube (a "Necker Cube") is meant to be reproduced below the figure.
Like I said... a very low floor.

[72gmc]

Iowa governor overrides schools, requires in-person classes

[thollandpe]

In the not-too-distant past my father performed miserably on the MOCA test. Prior to that we suspected something was awry with his cognitive abilities but we were gobsmacked at how poorly he did. How much had already gone missing. Because he was able to cover for his deficiencies in an assertive and extremely creative manner.

Why the heck anyone would brag about acing one of those tests is yet another tell. And likely yet another in an endless litany of lies.

[ides1056]

My 93-year-old stepfather has taken this test routinely to determine whether he still has "capacity."

The bar is set low so doctors don't have to make the call.

He can quote Tennyson chapter and verse, but is routinely scammed, won't wear diapers, etc.

The brain has some sort of muscular memory and just sails on autopilot. This guy is in so far over his head it's a wonder he can face the day.

[monadnocky]

In the not-too-distant past my father performed miserably on the MOCA test. Prior to that we suspected something was awry with his cognitive abilities but we were gobsmacked at how poorly he did. How much had already gone missing. Because he was able to cover for his deficiencies in an assertive and extremely creative manner.

Sorry to hear about your dad. That's the simple beauty of norm-referenced tests like this. Older individuals can cover really well for their deficiencies, to the point that we can't really ascertain the extent without a test like the MOCA. It's sad, but also really amazing that the brain can cover so well, to the point that loved ones can't really tell.

In terms of the reproduction of the Necker Cube, and similar geometric designs - I recall assessing an elderly man who was a graphic designer. He, like others who have a background in illustration, construct these figures atypically and more organized compared to others. For the Necker, people with such a background always draw two offset squares, and then connect the squares with 45 degree lines. Much more organized approach, as opposed to others (like me) who would do it line-by-line, freehand. A different way of organizing visual stimuli- much more efficient. Interesting.

A more advanced reproduction and recall test is the Rey Complex Figure Test. You can Google the figure - it's in the public domain, so I'm not getting into any trouble here.

[guido]

Opinion | What You Don’t Know About the Coronavirus Can’t Hurt Trump - The New York Times

"We’re now at the stage of the Covid-19 pandemic where Donald Trump and his allies are trying to suppress information about the coronavirus’s spread — because, of course, they are. True to form, however, they’re far behind the curve. From a political point of view (which is all they care about), their disinformation efforts are too little, too late.

Where we are: In just a few days millions of Americans are going to see a drastic fall in their incomes, as enhanced unemployment benefits expire. This calls for urgent action; but avoiding economic calamity was always going to be hard, because Republicans in general have balked at providing the aid workers idled by the pandemic need.

But now it turns out that there’s another obstacle to action: An intra-G.O.P. dispute over funding for testing and tracing of infected individuals. Even Senate Republicans support increased testing, which is desperately needed given our current situation: Surging cases have created a testing backlog, and test results are taking so long to come back that they’re effectively useless.

But Trump officials are opposed to any new money for testing. They’re barely even trying to offer excuses for their opposition, since Trump himself explained the strategy a month ago at his Tulsa rally: When you expand testing, he declared, “you’re going to find more cases, so I said to my people, ‘Slow the testing down, please.’”

In other words, what you don’t know can’t hurt Trump.

Nobody should be surprised that the Trump team is trying to suppress bad news about the pandemic. This was completely predictable given the Law of Obama Projection: Every right-wing conspiracy theory about President Barack Obama was an indication of what Republicans wanted to do themselves, and would do once they had the power.

Remember, for example, wild claims about an imminent military takeover of Texas, lent credence by senior Republicans? Now we have unidentified Department of Homeland Security agents in unmarked vehicles seizing people off the streets of Portland, Ore. Remember claims that the government was secretly constructing concentration camps? Thousands of migrants are now immured in detention centers, often under horrifying conditions.

And the current war on Covid-19 testing was prefigured by constant claims that the Obama administration was suppressing bad economic news. “Inflation truthers” insisted that the feds were hiding the runaway inflation that right-wingers predicted, but that never arrived. Unemployment truthers — including, notably, one Donald Trump — declared that official job numbers showing a steadily improving economy were fake, and that unemployment was actually much higher than reported.

It was inevitable, then, that the Trumpists would do what they falsely accused Obama of doing, and try to hide bad pandemic numbers. Efforts to hold down testing are only part of the story.
Editors’ Picks
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The Trump administration recently ordered hospitals to stop reporting Covid-19 data to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, sending it to a private contractor instead. As a result, hospitalization data, a key pandemic indicator, disappeared from the C.D.C. website before being reinstated after a widespread outcry.

And some Republican-controlled states, notably Georgia, have for months been massaging coronavirus data, presenting it in misleading ways that understate the problem.

The puzzle is why the latest attack on testing came so late. Pro tip: If you’re trying to conceal bad epidemiological news, you should start the cover-up before everyone realizes that the pandemic is spiraling out of control.

A fascinating Times post-mortem on Trump’s failed coronavirus response helps us understand what happened. And I do mean mortem: Americans are dying of Covid-19 at a rate eight times that in Canada, 10 times that in Europe.

The Times account makes it clear that the Trump team never seriously considered trying to deal with the pandemic’s reality. It also makes it clear, however, that officials convinced themselves back in April that they were getting away with this abdication of responsibility, that the coronavirus was going away.

And by the time they realized that the virus wasn’t playing along with their political games, it was too late to hide the truth.

At this point it’s not even clear what purpose obstructing testing is supposed to serve. The attempt to engineer an economic boom before the election has already failed, as reopened states are reversing course. And Trump has already squandered all credibility on the coronavirus; even if the numbers on reported cases suddenly started to look much better, who besides his hard-core supporters would believe them?

So this doesn’t look like a political strategy as much as an attempt to soothe the boss’s fragile ego. Trump keeps insisting, falsely, that the only reason we’re seeing so many cases is too much testing, so his aides are trying to mollify him by holding testing down.

And if this cripples America’s pandemic response, making a test-trace-isolate strategy impossible, well, actually dealing with the virus was never part of the plan.

The Times is committed to publishing a diversity of letters to the editor. We’d like to hear what you think about this or any of our articles. Here are some tips. And here’s our email: letters@nytimes.com.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook, Twitter (@NYTopinion) and Instagram.

Paul Krugman has been an Opinion columnist since 2000 and is also a Distinguished Professor at the City University of New York Graduate Center. He won the 2008 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his work on international trade and economic geography. @PaulKrugman

[BBB]

This test is hard! Are those animals the ones that Don Jr. and Eric kill for fun?

This is kind of off-topic for this thread...but this shits me. How any responsible adult can rationalise killing those types of animals for 'fun' 'sport' 'trophy hunting' is beyond me. I know poachers may find themselves on the wrong side of a rifle, but the same should apply for people who pay for the dubious pleasure of killing big game.

[thollandpe]

Sorry to hear about your dad. That's the simple beauty of norm-referenced tests like this. Older individuals can cover really well for their deficiencies, to the point that we can't really ascertain the extent without a test like the MOCA. It's sad, but also really amazing that the brain can cover so well, to the point that loved ones can't really tell.

In terms of the reproduction of the Necker Cube, and similar geometric designs - I recall assessing an elderly man who was a graphic designer. He, like others who have a background in illustration, construct these figures atypically and more organized compared to others. For the Necker, people with such a background always draw two offset squares, and then connect the squares with 45 degree lines. Much more organized approach, as opposed to others (like me) who would do it line-by-line, freehand. A different way of organizing visual stimuli- much more efficient. Interesting.

A more advanced reproduction and recall test is the Rey Complex Figure Test. You can Google the figure - it's in the public domain, so I'm not getting into any trouble here.

Fascinating. I draw the Necker cube by drawing the top and bottom first (parallelograms), and then dropping the vertical connectors. As someone who has (successfully and unsuccessfully) taught 3-D drafting, there's a huge discrepancy in people's ability to make or even understand a 2D representation of a 3D object.

But we digress. Dealing with a parent who is in the throes of early-onset Alzheimer's makes me very cognizant of the similarities in the president's communication and my own father's. The cadence, the anger, the lashing out. The bluster and the covering of an insecurity, a disability, and a weakness. The focus on perceived wrongs. The susceptibility to conspiracy theories. The obsession with certain problems.

But the dotard in DC bears no real resemblance who my Dad who no longer controls the bank accounts (after a really big bleed) or the keys to the car (after only a couple of dents). Time has well passed to invoke the 25th on No. 45.

[beeatnik]

Coronavirus makes stats fun. And in the Fox New Sunday interview both Fox and Trump get it wrong when it comes to Case Fatality Rate. My takeaway, Trump is as crazy as a fox (pun intended). Oh, and the US does have a relatively low CFR for a country dealing with 10K plus cases.

WALLACE: But, sir, we have the seventh highest mortality rate in the world. Our mortality rate is higher than Brazil, it's higher than Russia and the European Union has us on a travel ban.


TRUMP: Yeah. I think what we'll do -- well, we have them under travel ban too, Chris. I closed them off. If you remember, I was the one that did the European Union very early.

But when you talk about mortality rates, I think it's the opposite. I think we have one of the lowest mortality rates in the world.

WALLACE: That’s not true, sir. We, we, we have a -- we had 900 deaths on a single day...

TRUMP: We will take a look...

WALLACE: ... just this week...

TRUMP: Ready?

WALLACE: You, you can check it out.


TRUMP: Can you please get me the mortality rate?

TRUMP: Kayleigh's right here. I heard we have one of the lowest, maybe the lowest mortality rate anywhere in the world.

TRUMP: Do you have the numbers, please? Because I heard we had the best mortality rate.

TRUMP: Number, number one low mortality rate.

TRUMP: I hope you show the scenario because it shows what fake news is all about. Ok, go ahead.

WALLACE: OK, OK. I don’t think I’m fake news but I will -- we’ll put --

TRUMP: Yeah, you will --


WALLACE: -- put our stats on --

TRUMP: You said we had the worst mortality rate in the world --

WALLACE: I said you had --

TRUMP: -- and we have the best.

WALLACE VOICE OVER: All right. It’s a little complicated. But bear with us. We went with numbers from Johns Hopkins University which charted the mortality rate for 20 countries hit by the virus. The US ranked 7th better than the United Kingdom but worse than Brazil and Russia.

WALLACE VOICE OVER: The White House went with this chart from the European CDC which shows Italy and Spain doing worse. But countries like Brazil and South Korea doing better. Other countries doing better like Russia aren’t included in the White House chart.

Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center

Cases and mortality by country

COUNTRY- CONFIRMED CASES - DEATHS - CASE-FATALITY - DEATHS/100K POP.

Yemen 1,606 445 27.7% nan
Belgium 63,706 9,800 15.4% 85.80
United Kingdom 296,358 45,385 15.3% 68.26
Italy 244,434 35,045 14.3% 57.99
France 211,943 30,155 14.2% 45.02
Hungary 4,333 596 13.8% 6.10
Netherlands 51,955 6,155 11.8% 35.72
Mexico 344,224 39,184 11.4% 31.05
Spain 260,255 28,420 10.9% 60.83
Chad 889 75 8.4% 0.48
Canada 112,168 8,896 7.9% 24.01
Sweden 77,281 5,619 7.3% 55.18
Ecuador 74,013 5,313 7.2% 31.10
Bahamas 153 11 7.2% nan
Ireland 25,760 1,753 6.8% 36.12
Barbados 105 7 6.7% 2.44
Liberia 1,091 70 6.4% 1.45
Sudan 10,992 693 6.3% 1.66
Niger 1,104 69 6.2% 0.31
San Marino 699 42 6.0% 124.32
Andorra 880 52 5.9% 67.53
Switzerland 33,591 1,969 5.9% 23.12
Slovenia 1,946 112 5.8% 5.42
Trinidad and Tobago 137 8 5.8% 0.58
Guyana 336 19 5.7% 2.44
Romania 37,458 2,026 5.4% 10.40
China 85,314 4,644 5.4% 0.33
Iran 273,788 14,188 5.2% 17.34
Burkina Faso 1,052 53 5.0% 0.27
Syria 496 25 5.0% nan
Egypt 87,775 4,302 4.9% 4.37
Mali 2,475 121 4.9% 0.63
Greece 4,007 194 4.8% 1.81
Indonesia 86,521 4,143 4.8% 1.55
Algeria 23,084 1,078 4.7% 2.55
North Macedonia 9,153 422 4.6% 20.26
Denmark 13,377 611 4.6% 10.54
Germany 202,735 9,092 4.5% 10.96
Finland 7,335 328 4.5% 5.94
Gambia 93 4 4.3% nan
Iraq 92,530 3,781 4.1% 9.84
Lithuania 1,932 80 4.1% 2.87
Angola 705 29 4.1% 0.09
Tanzania 509 21 4.1% 0.04
Poland 40,104 1,624 4.0% 4.28
Zambia 2,980 120 4.0% 0.69
Antigua and Barbuda 76 3 3.9% 3.12
Japan 25,446 986 3.9% 0.78
Brazil 2,098,389 79,488 3.8% 37.95
Kyrgyzstan 27,143 1,037 3.8% 16.42
Guatemala 38,677 1,485 3.8% 8.61
Sierra Leone 1,711 65 3.8% 0.85
US 3,773,260 140,534 3.7% 42.95