Virus thread, the political one.

[Sbti]

The reports are that on Friday when he hit a fever of 103 and had to have supplemental oxygen, he freaked out and learned he was going to Walter Reed. The warrior with great genes whimpered like a dog and exclaimed:"Am I going out like Chera did? Am I?” Referring to his friend Stanley Chera who died from Covid back in April.

[j44ke]

Out of curiosity, what would happen if Trump were incapable to carry out his duties and Pence were to step up (albeit temporarily)? Specifically, who gets to become VP, and does that person need to be confirmed? Might that temporarily siphon off one vote in the Senate until a new VP is confirmed?

If Trump is not dead but powers have been transferred to Pence, then the election goes forward with Trump as the Presidential candidate and Pence as his VP, albeit a VP with transferred powers of the President. There would be no need for a VP, because Pence would still hold that position. And because he would still be the VP, then he would be able to vote in the Senate.

If Trump dies before the election, everything gets really weird quickly. For example, Pence may then be President, but he is on the ballot as Vice President and the deadline (no pun) has passed for making changes. So there might be plenty of votes cast as absentee for Trump/Pence but no votes cast for Pence/Whoever. Plus he’d have to run as a write-in for President because the ballots cannot be changed. But even before that, he’d also have to be selected by the Republican Party as their candidate. Pence might not even be the Republican nominee for President - Ivanka Trump might be selected. So as you can imagine, there would court battles seeking delay of the election, transfer of cast votes to the current President, moves to block nominations of other candidates, etc.

Fun!

[taz]

If Trump is not dead but powers have been transferred to Pence, then the election goes forward with Trump as the Presidential candidate and Pence as his VP, albeit a VP with transferred powers of the President. There would be no need for a VP, because Pence would still hold that position. And because he would still be the VP, then he would be able to vote in the Senate.

I don't think this part is correct. Pence would be acting president, but there would be no VP until he returned to that role. i.e, no tie breaking vote in Senate. Do you have any sources? I'd like to find out more. (Or assuming Trump dies, Pence would have to nominate a VP to be confirmed - the Nixon/Ford scenario.)

[j44ke]

I don't think this part is correct. Pence would be acting president, but there would be no VP until he returned to that role. i.e, no tie breaking vote in Senate. Do you have any sources? I'd like to find out more. (Or assuming Trump dies, Pence would have to nominate a VP to be confirmed - the Nixon/Ford scenario.)

My wife is a lawyer with a background in US election law. I’ve been asking her all sorts of questions the last couple days.

If Trump were incapacitated, Pence wouldn’t be acting President. He would be Vice President with emergency Presidential powers conveyed to him due to Trump’s incapacity to perform them.

If Trump dies or is otherwise unable to return to his position and serve as President, then the law of succession makes Pence the next person in line to take over the position of President, though he must be sworn in to actually BE President.

That image of Johnson being sworn in on the plane with Jackie Kennedy as witness is a very important moment. Lots of things in that photo.

[Mark Walberg]

Given that we know that at least 10 in that group have tested positive, what is the math on how many will have major complications and/or die? ..................

Of course, he already got Herman Cain. So, maybe a few more in a week or two.

[Colinmclelland]

My wife is a lawyer with a background in US election law.

Call me old fashioned, but I’m sad that’s a thing.

[j44ke]

Call me old fashioned, but I’m sad that’s a thing.

Not sure I understand. Precedents in election law in the US dates back to the 1700’s. You know, the beginning of the country. And then before that, it is based on principles, philosophies and systems much older than that.

Right now she is involved in a voting rights case in New York. Doesn’t pay the bills and most of it is pro-bono, so she has other work that is revenue producing for her firm. But her firm supports it entirely. She and her colleagues just received an award from her firm for their work in this case.

If this is anti-lawyer sentiment, it is misplaced.

[Colinmclelland]

No not anti lawyer sentiment at all. I just think it’s sad that elections are a legal field. I’m sure it’s a global phenomenon, but I got more votes than you shouldn’t be that complicated IMHO.

[BBB]

Happens in Australia too. There were legal disputes following the last election regarding the use of how to vote pamphlets in Chinese that were apparently misleading.

[Sbti]

Now the shithead gets the whole motorcade together for a joyride around the hospital to wave at the goobers. Putting the security and staff at more risk. JFC what the hell is going on? Look at me! Look at meeeeeeee! The new mix of drugs he is on can cause mania and delirium, but how is that different than any other day?

[j44ke]

No not anti lawyer sentiment at all. I just think it’s sad that elections are a legal field. I’m sure it’s a global phenomenon, but I got more votes than you shouldn’t be that complicated IMHO.

I still don’t understand. Elections are government institutions created and controlled by law and precedent. How would it not be a legal field?

[BBB]

I suppose in Australia there are a couple of differences; there is much, much less money involved in elections and we have one federal body that oversees our elections. In a Federal election, the rules are they same whether you are voting in rural Western Australia or in the middle of Sydney.

[j44ke]

I suppose in Australia there are a couple of differences; there is much, much less money involved in elections and we have one federal body that oversees our elections. In a Federal election, the rules are they same whether you are voting in rural Western Australia or in the middle of Sydney.

So no one in Australia studies election law - meaning the laws that construct and govern elections in Australia - in college or law school?

Election law isn’t just suing someone you think cheated to beat you in an election.

[Colinmclelland]

So no one in Australia studies election law - meaning the laws that construct and govern elections in Australia - in college or law school?

Election law isn’t just suing someone you think cheated to beat you in an election.

I’m sure they do, but I’d like to think they work at the Australian Electoral Commission. The idea that there’s enough money floating around for someone in private practice to develop expertise in election law when they only happen every few years I find upsetting for some reason.

[ides1056]

Another idealist.

You would be a Democrat if you lived here.

[BBB]

So no one in Australia studies election law - meaning the laws that construct and govern elections in Australia - in college or law school?

Election law isn’t just suing someone you think cheated to beat you in an election.

Not specifically no. If you study politics as part of your BA, then you will cover how the parliament works (or doesn't work), including in relation to elections. In law school, not specifically, although it may come up in constitutional law or administrative law. Aside from the to-do over Chinese language signs, there was also a raft of cases regarding eligibility of candidates which required consideration of the constitution and the laws of citizenship in other countries and following that, a series of bi-elections.

[Colinmclelland]

Another idealist.

You would be a Democrat if you lived here.

The only fly in that ointment is that while nutters can walk down the street with assault rifles I’ll keep riding my bike in Australia. I prefer our rednecks. Pauline Hanson is an incoherent stain on the country, but at least her supporters are unarmed.

[j44ke]

I’m sure they do, but I’d like to think they work at the Australian Electoral Commission. The idea that there’s enough money floating around for someone in private practice to develop expertise in election law when they only happen every few years I find upsetting for some reason.

It isn't seasonal work in the US. It is like weeding in the tropics.

I doubt it is seasonal in Australia.

[j44ke]

Not specifically no. If you study politics as part of your BA, then you will cover how the parliament works (or doesn't work), including in relation to elections. In law school, not specifically, although it may come up in constitutional law or administrative law. Aside from the to-do over Chinese language signs, there was also a raft of cases regarding eligibility of candidates which required consideration of the constitution and the laws of citizenship in other countries and following that, a series of bi-elections.

Constitutional law would be the place to study it I bet.

No voter suppression? No gerrymandering of voting districts? No violations of monetary contribution restrictions? No foreign government money laundering through domestic lobbying groups?

Sounds like heaven, except I know you burned up all your koalas so not quite heaven.

[BBB]

Constitutional law would be the place to study it I bet.

No voter suppression? No gerrymandering of voting districts? No violations of monetary contribution restrictions? No foreign government money laundering through domestic lobbying groups?

Sounds like heaven, except I know you burned up all your koalas so not quite heaven.

Yes constitutional law is where is generally happens, but it certainly wasn't a big part of study from my recollection of that course.

Voting is compulsory in Australia (well attendance at a polling booth to get your name ticked off the electoral role is compulsory) so voter suppression is not an issue. Gerrymandering has been an issue in the past, but electoral boundaries and any amendments are dealt with by the Australian Electoral Commission and it is not an issue for the courts. Donations are a hot potato, but it never seems to make it past the political sphere. Foreign donations are tricky, but again, this is seemingly an issue that never seems to make it past the political sphere.