Virus thread, the political one.

[ides1056]

He's on a roid high. Four days in he won't feel so good.

A friend is shopping for a new boat.

[Too Tall]

Nice boat.

New drinking game for tonight's VP "debate".

Kamala < Everytime she says "Let me be clear" = 1 shot or chug. If she says "let me be crystal clear" you have to empty your drink.
Pence < When he says "Let's make xxxxx" = 1 shot or chug. If he says "mother" empty your drink.

[monadnocky]

... If he says "mother" empty your drink.

Or does that creepy eye-squint thing, looks directly into the camera, and does his obsequious whole "Donald Trump [blah blah blah] the American people."
Maybe that's going to happen too often for a whole drink.

I have it on semi-decent authority that even Trump can't stand him.

[Bob Ross]

Pence < When he says "Let's make xxxxx" = 1 shot or chug.

Perhaps this is because I get 99% of my news from reading articles rather than watching videos...or perhaps this is indicative of just how milquetoast "Mr. Cellophane" Pence really is...but I have no reference for ^^^this quip. Can you give an actual example from the past 3 years?

[thollandpe]

Pence's hallmark is his indefatigable obsequiousness.
A liver buster would be drinking whenever he praises his boss for being "decisive" or taking "decisive action".
Because this administration did not take decisive action, they remained flat-footed for months while the novel coronavirus ate our lunch.
Most of the action they took was the dissemination of misinformation.
It continues to this day.

[Sbti]

"Under this President". DRINK

And Kamala just needs to repeat.... the "head of the(mother fucking)Corona Virus Task Force" when speaking of THIS Vice President.

[BBB]

I have been thinking about what a decisive response would look like.

In Australia (an island and all) we acted early, but not early enough. Our borders should have been closed earlier than they were and while a national cabinet was convened with the Prime Minister and State Premiers (the equivalent of your Governors) to deal with the issue, it wasn't really co-ordinated properly. The Federal Government here controls the borders and thus the states should have told the PM in no uncertain terms, you control the borders and you need to deal with the quarantine of returning travellers. Instead we got a piece meal response on quarantine and lots of finger pointing when things didn't work.

But, the essential point was grasped by Australia's political leaders that this thing was bad news, it was recognised by our leaders in various press conferences and the public walked through the responses needed and why they were needed. Obviously everyone did not agree and the subsequent economic mess will take a while to clean up, but we have avoided (thus far) some very serious health issues. Did we get it right? No. Will we learn from the experience? Yes.

Which is why I cannot understand Trump and his cronies. Surely they would have received similar medical advice and the various public policy implications in the event the virus took hold in the community? At this point you'd expect a leader to stand up and take action to safeguard the community (as is best able in the circumstances). Instead the opposite appeared to happen. While it would appear he got the advice, he came out and labelled it a hoax, brawled with the states over medical equipment and suggested injecting bleach. And here you are six months down the track and the inner circle of the White House has been taken out by the virus because of silly public posturing about masks and 200,000 + people are dead.

I get Trump didn't want to close things down because the economy tanking in an election year is bad, but there are more important things at play. When he had the chance to lead, he dropped the ball. I honestly cannot fathom how these things happen. If he was the CEO of a public company the board and the shareholders would have acted months ago and shown him the door. That's he's still in with a fighting chance in the election despite the gross incompetence is really, really hard to fathom.

[gregl]

Which is why I cannot understand Trump and his cronies. Surely they would have received similar medical advice and the various public policy implications in the event the virus took hold in the community? At this point you'd expect a leader to stand up and take action to safeguard the community (as is best able in the circumstances). Instead the opposite appeared to happen. While it would appear he got the advice, he came out and labelled it a hoax, brawled with the states over medical equipment and suggested injecting bleach. And here you are six months down the track and the inner circle of the White House has been taken out by the virus because of silly public posturing about masks and 200,000 + people are dead.

I get Trump didn't want to close things down because the economy tanking in an election year is bad, but there are more important things at play. When he had the chance to lead, he dropped the ball. I honestly cannot fathom how these things happen. If he was the CEO of a public company the board and the shareholders would have acted months ago and shown him the door. That's he's still in with a fighting chance in the election despite the gross incompetence is really, really hard to fathom.

You can't understand Trump because you are trying to apply logic to his presidency. Logic doesn't apply to a narcissistic sociopath. He has no empathy for other humans. His entire focus is "winning." Sadly, 48-49% of the American public was too self-absorbed and/or stupid in 2016 to see through Trump's charade. Let's hope the percentages have swung to Biden's favor in four week's time.

Greg

[BBB]

I guess you're right.

But, it doesn't make any sense to want to win a position if you are not prepared to do the heavy lifting the position requires.

Still, Trump is 'winning' in a way. Winning the highest death toll that is.

[gregl]

I guess you're right.

But, it doesn't make any sense to want to win a position if you are not prepared to do the heavy lifting the position requires.

Still, Trump is 'winning' in a way. Winning the highest death toll that is.

Trump has never done any “heavy lifting.” He made his fortune the old fashioned way - he inherited it. Then he lied and cheated from there. The only asset he has that isn’t heavily leveraged or in debt is his name. He’s simply famous for being famous, a triumph of self-promotion over substance. For him it’s all a game. He has no patience, patriotism, or ideals to encourage him to take the presidency seriously. Yet he has to be given credit for his incredible ability to fool a large part of the US voting public and taking over what was left of the Republican Party. When it comes to bullying and shameless promotion, he is king.

Greg

[Bob Ross]

Ah, irony...

from the MIT Technology Review: Trump’s antibody treatment was tested using cells originally derived from an abortion

The Trump administration has looked to curtail research with fetal cells. But when it was life or death for the president, no one objected.

by Antonio Regaladoarchive page
October 7, 2020


This week, President Donald Trump extolled the cutting-edge coronavirus treatments he received as “miracles coming down from God.” If that’s true, then God employs cell lines derived from human fetal tissue.

The emergency antibody that Trump received last week was developed with the use of a cell line originally derived from abortion tissue, according to Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, the company that developed the experimental drug.

The Trump administration has taken an increasingly firm line against medical research using fetal tissue from abortions. For example, when it moved in 2019 to curtail the ability of the National Institutes of Health to fund such research, supporters hailed a “major pro-life victory” and thanked Trump personally for taking decisive action against what they called the “outrageous and disgusting” practice of “experimentation using baby body parts.”

But when the president faced a deadly encounter with covid-19, his administration raised no objections over the fact that the new drugs also relied on fetal cells, and anti-abortion campaigners were silent too. Most likely, their hypocrisy was unwitting. Many types of medical and vaccine research employ supplies of cells originally acquired from abortion tissue. It would have taken an expert to realize that was the case with Trump’s treatment.

Last Friday, as Trump developed worrisome symptoms of covid-19, the president received an emergency cocktail of anti-coronavirus antibodies made by Regeneron. These molecules are manufactured in cells from a hamster’s ovary, so-called “CHO” cells, according to the company—not in human cells.

But cells originally derived from a fetus were used in another way. According to Regeneron, laboratory tests used to assess the potency of its antibodies employed a standardized supply of cells called HEK 293T, whose origin was kidney tissue from an abortion in the Netherlands in the 1970s.

Since then, the 293T cells have been “immortalized,” meaning they keep dividing in the lab, somewhat like a cancer, and have undergone other genetic changes and additions.

According to Regeneron, it and many other labs employ 293T cells to manufacture virus “pseudoparticles,” which are virus-like structures that contain the “spike” protein of the deadly coronavirus. It needs those to test how well different antibodies will neutralize the virus.

The two antibodies Regeneron eventually put forward as an experimental treatment, which may have saved Trump’s life, would have been selected using exactly such tests. Because the 293T cells were acquired so long ago, and have lived so long in the laboratory, they are no longer thought of as involving abortion politics.

“It’s how you want to parse it,” says Alexandra Bowie, a Regeneron spokesperson. “But the 293T cell lines available today are not considered fetal tissue, and we did not otherwise use fetal tissue.”

The Trump administration has sought to block or curtail research that requires tissue from recently performed abortions. In August, for example, a new board created by the Department of Health and Human Services, and stacked with figures opposed to abortion, voted to withhold funding from 13 of 14 proposals.

The rejections centered on research seeking fresh supplies of abortion tissue, rather than ongoing research involving older, well-established cell lines in use for many years, like the type Regeneron employed. However, one reason some scientists want to study abortion tissue is so they can create new and valuable cell lines.

[JoB]

Emphatically yes. You cannot reason with an unreasonable person.

You can't understand Trump because you are trying to apply logic to his presidency. Logic doesn't apply to a narcissistic sociopath. He has no empathy for other humans. His entire focus is "winning." Sadly, 48-49% of the American public was too self-absorbed and/or stupid in 2016 to see through Trump's charade. Let's hope the percentages have swung to Biden's favor in four week's time.

Greg

[echappist]

Ah, irony...

from the MIT Technology Review: Trump’s antibody treatment was tested using cells originally derived from an abortion

That's really quite rich, ain't it? Hypocrisy in overdrive.

And i'd expect the "pro-lifers" in powerful positions to take advantage of scientific advances, regardless of whether they themselves voted to deprive funding to that very scientific discovery in the first place.

[Too Tall]

Bob Ross is winning this thread.

[beeatnik]

Are there any journalists in the V House? I went to a school without a journalism major (but with an award winning paper!). I don't get the 100k or 200K Death Cult reporting. I dont recall reading a major story in any respected publication that didn't include the number of deaths in the US. Do editors believe that there are readers who on Friday will lose track of the astronomical fatality numbers from Monday? Here's what I'm curious about and full disclosure this is about the virus and not Trump (cos Dog told me Trump will be gone by Feb 2021). The population of the United States is 331,526,317. Germany, France, UK, Italy, Spain, and, ah, Belgium have a combined population of 336,115,344. In the United States, covid-19 has taken 216,760 lives. Western Europe's major nations with Belgium thrown in for statistical purposes have lost 163,327 lives.

This is a good article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ndemic/616548/

I have been thinking about what a decisive response would look like.

In Australia (an island and all) we acted early, but not early enough. Our borders should have been closed earlier than they were and while a national cabinet was convened with the Prime Minister and State Premiers (the equivalent of your Governors) to deal with the issue, it wasn't really co-ordinated properly. The Federal Government here controls the borders and thus the states should have told the PM in no uncertain terms, you control the borders and you need to deal with the quarantine of returning travellers. Instead we got a piece meal response on quarantine and lots of finger pointing when things didn't work.

But, the essential point was grasped by Australia's political leaders that this thing was bad news, it was recognised by our leaders in various press conferences and the public walked through the responses needed and why they were needed. Obviously everyone did not agree and the subsequent economic mess will take a while to clean up, but we have avoided (thus far) some very serious health issues. Did we get it right? No. Will we learn from the experience? Yes.

Which is why I cannot understand Trump and his cronies. Surely they would have received similar medical advice and the various public policy implications in the event the virus took hold in the community? At this point you'd expect a leader to stand up and take action to safeguard the community (as is best able in the circumstances). Instead the opposite appeared to happen. While it would appear he got the advice, he came out and labelled it a hoax, brawled with the states over medical equipment and suggested injecting bleach. And here you are six months down the track and the inner circle of the White House has been taken out by the virus because of silly public posturing about masks and 200,000 + people are dead.

I get Trump didn't want to close things down because the economy tanking in an election year is bad, but there are more important things at play. When he had the chance to lead, he dropped the ball. I honestly cannot fathom how these things happen. If he was the CEO of a public company the board and the shareholders would have acted months ago and shown him the door. That's he's still in with a fighting chance in the election despite the gross incompetence is really, really hard to fathom.

[thollandpe]

Boom.

Dying in a Leadership Vacuum -- The New England Journal of Medicine

"The response of our nation’s leaders has been consistently inadequate."

"Instead of relying on expertise, the administration has turned to uninformed 'opinion leaders' and charlatans who obscure the truth and facilitate the promulgation of outright lies."

"Let's be clear about the cost of not taking even simple measures. An outbreak that has disproportionately affected communities of color has exacerbated the tensions associated with inequality. Many of our children are missing school at critical times in their social and intellectual development. The hard work of health care professionals, who have put their lives on the line, has not been used wisely. Our current leadership takes pride in the economy, but while most of the world has opened up to some extent, the United States still suffers from disease rates that have prevented many businesses from reopening, with a resultant loss of hundreds of billions of dollars and millions of jobs. And more than 200,000 Americans have died."

"Anyone else who recklessly squandered lives and money in this way would be suffering legal consequences. Our leaders have largely claimed immunity for their actions. But this election gives us the power to render judgment. Reasonable people will certainly disagree about the many political positions taken by candidates. But truth is neither liberal nor conservative. When it comes to the response to the largest public health crisis of our time, our current political leaders have demonstrated that they are dangerously incompetent. We should not abet them and enable the deaths of thousands more Americans by allowing them to keep their jobs."

[robin3mj]

New debate rules. You don’t answer the question asked, they turn off your damn microphone for three minutes. Tack on an additional minute for each successive violation. And the same for every time you talk past your allotted time.

[SpeedyChix]

New debate rules. You don’t answer the question asked, they turn off your damn microphone for three minutes. Tack on an additional minute for each successive violation. And the same for every time you talk past your allotted time.

He seems to be deaf when it's time to stop and is incapable of answering the question.

[72gmc]

He isn't capable of self-managed response. He can only dispense what others have programmed into him.

[theflashunc]

Are there any journalists in the V House? I went to a school without a journalism major (but with an award winning paper!). I don't get the 100k or 200K Death Cult reporting. I dont recall reading a major story in any respected publication that didn't include the number of deaths in the US. Do editors believe that there are readers who on Friday will lose track of the astronomical fatality numbers from Monday? Here's what I'm curious about and full disclosure this is about the virus and not Trump (cos Dog told me Trump will be gone by Feb 2021). The population of the United States is 331,526,317. Germany, France, UK, Italy, Spain, and, ah, Belgium have a combined population of 336,115,344. In the United States, covid-19 has taken 216,760 lives. Western Europe's major nations with Belgium thrown in for statistical purposes have lost 163,327 lives.

This is a good article:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ndemic/616548/

It's not a death cult, it's reporting the facts on the ground. And the numbers on Friday are different than the numbers on Monday. You never assume a reader knows, it's why Reuters is notorious for explainer paragraphs for things like who The Beatles are.