Chef Knives?

[9tubes]

Just got my first Japanese knife, a Takamura 180mm gyuto. It's fantastic. So thin, so sharp, looking forward to seeing how the steel holds up.

It is interesting comparing it to my 8" Wusthof Classic chef knife. The steel is half as thick on the Takamura, but is ground differently. The Wusthof has a full flat grind, so from the spine to the cutting edge it's getting thinner the whole way down. The Takamura maintains it's full thickness until about half way down to the cutting edge.

A few years ago I did an impulse buy and got a Tojiro DP chef's knife. It was superior to my Henkels and Wustofs in every way: sharpened to a higher level, was easier to sharpen, and sliced better a month after sharpening than the Henkels and Wustofs did when freshly sharpened. I've learned that the Tojiro is considered a decent and affordable knife but by no means a great knife. Ever since I've wondered what I would buy in the $250-300 range (for a 240mm Gyuto) but there are so many choices that my eyes glaze over. How do ya choose?

[spopepro]

How do ya choose?

Ideally, by bringing some carrots and daikon to your (er, my) local pusher. All the reputable Japanese makers make good blades, and most of the western makers are following suit with harder, thinner designs. It's all so good, it's more a matter of personal preference.

The first thing for me is the handle. I found out early on that I have a *strong* preference for octagonal handles. While I was shopping for a usuba, I found out I really preferred a nakiri, even for katsuramuki. I like blades that are a little more rust resistant, as my white #1 deba seems to develop spots no matter what I do. And finally, does it look bad ass and make me want to cut shit just to enjoy using it...

Absent of getting to handle blades it's tough. I'd pic this one personally, especially if it's going to get heavy use. In fact, it's what's in my knife block, albeit with a slightly different semi-stainless metal.

[dgaddis]

A few years ago I did an impulse buy and got a Tojiro DP chef's knife. It was superior to my Henkels and Wustofs in every way: sharpened to a higher level, was easier to sharpen, and sliced better a month after sharpening than the Henkels and Wustofs did when freshly sharpened. I've learned that the Tojiro is considered a decent and affordable knife but by no means a great knife. Ever since I've wondered what I would buy in the $250-300 range (for a 240mm Gyuto) but there are so many choices that my eyes glaze over. How do ya choose?

I'm not at all an expert, so, I'm not the guy to ask haha. But, with that said, here's how I ended up with the Takamura. I found the 'chefknives' subreddit and posted a question if anyone had any experience with the Warther knives. They're made in the USA, and use S35VN which is a well know used to be considered a 'super steel' in the pocket knife world. But I'll admit I don't care for the finish they put on them, and, there's very little info out there about them. So I posted the question if anyone had experience, mentioned some other knives I had (Wusthof, Mercer, Victorinox) and said I wanted a thinner grind (than the Mercers) and better edge retention. Anyhow, someone suggest I look at the Takamura instead. They're a well known and respected low(er) quantity manufacturer, and it wasn't crazy expensive at ~$165. Certainly not cheap, but not $300 either. It has a 'western' style handle, which I like (I haven't used an octogonal or other traditional Japanese style handle to be fair). Anyhow, so I tried it out, and I dig it.

[jdanton]

A few years ago I did an impulse buy and got a Tojiro DP chef's knife. It was superior to my Henkels and Wustofs in every way: sharpened to a higher level, was easier to sharpen, and sliced better a month after sharpening than the Henkels and Wustofs did when freshly sharpened. I've learned that the Tojiro is considered a decent and affordable knife but by no means a great knife. Ever since I've wondered what I would buy in the $250-300 range (for a 240mm Gyuto) but there are so many choices that my eyes glaze over. How do ya choose?

The Tojiro was my first Japanese knive as well. I've since acquired many more, including a Misono UX10 270mm, which is in that budget range. In my experience the difference is that the better knives stay sharer for a longer time. The initial cut after sharpening isn't much different. Obviously fit and finish is nicer on the better knives. My other recommendation is for a Hakiri--it is such a great knife for cutting vegetables. I went the same path of getting a Tojiro then 6 months later getting something a little nicer--the only major difference is edge retention.

[Too Tall]

You dog.

[choke]

How did I miss this tread before?

A few years ago I did an impulse buy and got a Tojiro DP chef's knife. It was superior to my Henkels and Wustofs in every way: sharpened to a higher level, was easier to sharpen, and sliced better a month after sharpening than the Henkels and Wustofs did when freshly sharpened. I've learned that the Tojiro is considered a decent and affordable knife but by no means a great knife. Ever since I've wondered what I would buy in the $250-300 range (for a 240mm Gyuto) but there are so many choices that my eyes glaze over. How do ya choose?

It's somewhat like choosing a bike....you can do a lot of research about the little guys or you can buy something from the big brands. The big question is....carbon, stainless or stainless clad carbon?

IMO it's hard to go wrong with something from Katsushige Anryu, either of the Kurosaki brothers (Makato and Yu) or Yoshimi Kato. You should be able to find something from one of them in your price range.

If length is important, you should be aware that knives made in Sakai usually run shorter for the same stated length than knives from most other places in Japan. Sakai made knives measure from the tip of the blade to the machi while most others measure from the tip to the heel of the blade. For example, I have a Sakai made 240 gyuto and an Echizen made 210 gyuto; if I place the heel of both blades together the blade on the 240 is only about 12mm longer than the blade on the 210.

[9tubes]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice.

- Brian

[9tubes]

How did I miss this tread before?

It's somewhat like choosing a bike....you can do a lot of research about the little guys or you can buy something from the big brands. The big question is....carbon, stainless or stainless clad carbon?

There is so much info out there and so many brands.

Stainless or stainless-clad carbon for me. It seems that the stainless-clad carbon has no downsides compared to all-carbon steel. From what I've read, going down the route of all stainless provides a narrower range of choices for steels and some have negatives like being more brittle, harder to sharpen, or not keeping sharp as long. Is that a correct summary?

[9tubes]

Here's one for you knife experts. I see that knives have changed since I shopped a few years ago. I see a lot of knives with either blackened finish or hammered finish or sometimes both. It seems that a few years ago the Damascus style was popular and now things have moved on. Is there an advantage or benefit to the blackened finish or the hammered finish? Is this just fashion or are they a passing thing?

Screen Shot 2020-10-14 at 3.41.54 PM.jpg

[slwrnu]

my chef friend always uses a hammered knife above the blade and so he can chop away safely and without barely looking. I do both as I am not so skilfull

[spopepro]

There is so much info out there and so many brands.

Stainless or stainless-clad carbon for me. It seems that the stainless-clad carbon has no downsides compared to all-carbon steel. From what I've read, going down the route of all stainless provides a narrower range of choices for steels and some have negatives like being more brittle, harder to sharpen, or not keeping sharp as long. Is that a correct summary?

There are so, so many stainless varieties out there it’s impossible to generalize at this point. You can get an alloy with almost any type of performance. I’m not a great reference for the names/codes of the metals, and it’s helpful to work with a dealer who does know if you have the chance.

Stainless clad carbon can be an issue if the core is super reactive. One of my knives is like this and I need to keep an eye on it. If I cut reactive food, I need to immediately wash and wipe. Again, the options are overwhelming.

Is there an advantage or benefit to the blackened finish or the hammered finish?

Nope, it’s about aesthetics. Many of the dark finishes won’t last through sharpening and long term use. Many of them look really, really cool tho... and if it makes your heart race then awesome. It’s fun to use cool looking stuff.

I think those things matter more in the internet era. When you need to sell something with a couple of pictures a striking finish can definitely help. Things that matter (to me, and I think to you) are the quality and shape of the grind, the thinness of the blade, the fit of the handle including how the spine hits the hand (I’ve had some of my knives modified here), the curve of the cutting edge.

All that said I’ve lusted after one of hinoura-san’s river jump blades for years. Even though it didn’t really fit my hand...

[choke]

There is so much info out there and so many brands.

Stainless or stainless-clad carbon for me. It seems that the stainless-clad carbon has no downsides compared to all-carbon steel. From what I've read, going down the route of all stainless provides a narrower range of choices for steels and some have negatives like being more brittle, harder to sharpen, or not keeping sharp as long. Is that a correct summary?

Generally speaking that's probably a good summary.....but as always nothing is set in stone.

Here's one for you knife experts. I see that knives have changed since I shopped a few years ago. I see a lot of knives with either blackened finish or hammered finish or sometimes both. It seems that a few years ago the Damascus style was popular and now things have moved on. Is there an advantage or benefit to the blackened finish or the hammered finish? Is this just fashion or are they a passing thing?

The black is the scale left over from forging. It is mostly for looks, though there are some people who feel that it helps with food release. As spopepro said, eventually it will wear off. The hammered finish - and others like it - are usually more orientated towards food release, though some blacksmiths also do designs to differentiate their knives from others.

Some suggestions, if you're up for them. I have a Kurosaki (though in R2) and a Kato AS and both are nice knives IMO. I don't have any experience with the Wakui but they get a lot of praise and the price is quit nice. Only you can decide what works best for you, but you can compare thickness, shape, etc. to a knife that you like and that should give you some idea of what may work.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kumegy24.html

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/k...ji-gyuto-240mm

https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=95729

[ides1056]

I have a Nakiri that I use for everything. Any more suggestions would be welcome.

[spopepro]

I have a Nakiri that I use for everything. Any more suggestions would be welcome.

If you love your Nakiri and use it all the time, I think a nice partner would be a petty in 150mm or somewhere in that ballpark. Some people consider the petty to be the japanese partner to the western paring knife, but in the 150-180mm range it can be used for those purposes and much more. It's a great utility knife and would give you a fine point to work with.

Something like this would be my suggestion, but there are many many options out there. I'd choose that because of my handle preference and I like the ginsanko stainless (ish... not as stainless as some, but very good resistance) especially for an everyday knife.

[ides1056]

Thank you very much.

[ides1056]

Reading the various reviews and the like I found that certain cutting boards should be avoided, namely Bamboo, which I have used extensively with the Nakiri I own. I do have end-grain boards but would be interested to know more about this if anyone cares to elaborate.

[spopepro]

Reading the various reviews and the like I found that certain cutting boards should be avoided, namely Bamboo, which I have used extensively with the Nakiri I own. I do have end-grain boards but would be interested to know more about this if anyone cares to elaborate.

I used bamboo for a while until Mark here pointed out that the reason bamboo is bad is because it has really high silica content. It won’t wreck your knives, but it’s not great.

End grain boards are awesome, but are sometimes very large and unwieldy. If it’s so big you can’t give it a good scrub regularly, it’s not a very good choice. Always remember that it’s not clean until it’s clean *and* dry.

Soft long grain is good—Japanese tradition is hinoki cutting boards. I really enjoy using mine. Both sides should be dampened before using.

Mark has a preference for HDPE. It’s good, easy on knives, can go though the dishwasher, and is cheap. I don’t love the way it feels, but it’s a preference thing.

[choke]

Bamboo also has nodes which are quite hard. But every cutting board is a compromise in some way.

I have maple, cherry and bamboo boards and I don't really notice any big difference in the rate that my knives dull.

The 'softest' board that I have is a Hasegawa wood core soft rubber. There is a noticeable difference in the way that it feels to me. I haven't had it long enough to really be able to compare the edge holding vs a wood board.

This is an interesting read, particularly this part:

To our surprise, the knives that seemed the sharpest by the end of the test were the ones that were used on boards made from harder woods. By contrast, knives used on boards made of softer woods were a bit duller. Senalik offered a possible explanation: Soft woods might initially be gentler on your knives, but because they are more prone to damage, they can dull a knife a bit faster as they get more beat-up over time, forcing the knife to travel over an increasingly irregular surface. This was certainly the case with the hinoki board: The knife we used on it was razor-sharp up until about 3,000 strokes, but as the board got increasingly scored and sliced up by the knife, the knife quickly began to dull.

[spopepro]

Bamboo also has nodes which are quite hard. But every cutting board is a compromise in some way.

I have maple, cherry and bamboo boards and I don't really notice any big difference in the rate that my knives dull.

The 'softest' board that I have is a Hasegawa wood core soft rubber. There is a noticeable difference in the way that it feels to me. I haven't had it long enough to really be able to compare the edge holding vs a wood board.

This is an interesting read, particularly this part:

That makes some sense to me. But it is also true that correct knife use doesn’t dig into the board. It is constant practice to move more, press less, and barely kiss the board. Especially on hinoki you can really feel the wood bite the knife if you cut into the board, which it sounds like what they are doing. I’m always hearing taka-sensei say “no, faster and lighter. It sounds like ‘tchuush’” and it really does sound different the 1/100 times I get it really right.

Of course, if you’re not hitting the board, maybe it doesn’t matter at all what you use...

[ides1056]

I decided on this:

https://www.japanny.com/collections/...053601427529-1

A birthday present to myself.