Automobiles

[rmplum]

Stupid question, but it seems like there is a lack of clarity when car makers describe their hybrids.

What is a plug-in hybrid? Does it mean that the only way to charge the batteries is by plugging the car in to a charger? Or does the engine charge the battery as well and the plug-in feature just give you the option of driving on battery-only, versus always having to use the engine in some capacity?

In a sense it's exactly what it says it is. In a non-plug in hybrid vehicle the only way to add charge to the onboard battery is via regenerative braking or by the gas powered onboard generator. So if you finish a drive in a non plug-in hybrid and you have 2 miles of EV driving range, or the state of charge is say 23% - that's what you'll have when you turn the car on the next morning.

The plug-in systems let you top off the battery while the vehicle is parked, and though it's not a rule of the sort, they usually also have a higher capacity battery for extended EV driving range.

Also - yes, a non plug-in hybrid vehicle can indeed propel itself only in EV mode, but the distances are usually pretty short.

[Todd Amunrud]

“I’m not sure I understand the antipathy towards Tesla above. They are a company that is actually trying for a paradigm change in terms of energy production, energy usage and energy storage. Their cars are imperfect. So are all cars. In terms of styling, they’re going to look different as there is no traditional need for engine cooling and they want to optimize aerodynamics of the form.”

We bought a Model Y and love it. My wife calls it her ‘bubble’ car and it fits our driving needs very well. We also have a bmw i3, so no more gas vehicles except for our daughter’s Honda Fit. Seems EVs currently, especially for Tesla, give an either love ‘em or hate ‘em feel. That seems to be true for many disrupters of industry through time. Our house is on community solar too and our goal was to move away from burning fossil fuels as much s possible.

[72gmc]

The kid is smart and recognizes the value of electric cars vs. internal combustion. The beef is with the styling, which you have to admit is a bit more Cuisinart than car. It’s OK to point out that something is wanting for a bit of character, and let off some harmless steam in the process.

[zachateseverything]

Stupid question, but it seems like there is a lack of clarity when car makers describe their hybrids.

What is a plug-in hybrid? Does it mean that the only way to charge the batteries is by plugging the car in to a charger? Or does the engine charge the battery as well and the plug-in feature just give you the option of driving on battery-only, versus always having to use the engine in some capacity?

I'm wondering about this Volvo model here: https://www.volvocars.com/us/v/cars/v60-hybrid

I'm familiar with Toyota Prius hybrids as my father had one. Now he has a Camry hybrid. Neither of those cars are plug-in hybrids, so there is never a need to plug the car in anywhere, nor is there the ability to run on the battery-only and completely shut off the engine.

A friend had an Audi A3 e-tron plug-in hybrid that could be driven as electric-only, but the cruising range was nothing (like 13 miles.) And it had endless problems so eventually he traded it in for a gas-engine A4.

a plug-in hybrid is exactly that. it's a car with both gas and electric motors and a larger battery pack than a traditional hybrid. you charge the car at home or work and will have 30-60 miles of full electric range and beyond that you'll basically be driving a prius. in practice you end up having an electric car for all your day to day driving while still maintaining the ability to go on longer trips when needed.

[zachateseverything]

Yes, a plug-in hybrid will have some range of E-only driving. That range may be super short though, as mentioned. I wouldn’t buy one for the E-only range unless it’s several dozen miles and that covers your daily driving. Generally though they do get really good fuel economy even when the gas engine starts.

I’m not sure I understand the antipathy towards Tesla above. They are a company that is actually trying for a paradigm change in terms of energy production, energy usage and energy storage. Their cars are imperfect. So are all cars. In terms of styling, they’re going to look different as there is no traditional need for engine cooling and they want to optimize aerodynamics of the form.

They’re a tech company as much as a car company and may be as disruptive to the transportation industry as Apple has been to the personal tech industry. They’re certainly causing everyone to think about EVs as they’re no longer just an 80-mile range curiosity like most EVs were a decade ago. It would appear that their battery tech is a decade ahead of the rest of the industry.

Many cars come today with a “mild hybrid” drivetrain even if it’s not showcased in the advertising. Electrification is here to stay and will improve and grow over time.

there are a couple reasons not to dig Tesla. Styling is a valid criticism. The fit and finish on their cars also tends to be dreadful. The customer base is seemingly willing to overlook stuff that other manufacturers would be skewered for. Frunks with no emergency mechanical release. Drive units with a high initial failure rate. Doors and windows that don't work. Home depot building supplies being used to secure part of the battery assembly. Cars with incredible performance repeatibility issues due to heat management struggles. It goes on and on.

My biggest gripe with Tesla though is their corporate culture. They're consistent with over promising and missing self imposed deadlines. Their misrepresentation of their autonomous tech is especially troublesome. The "full self-driving" beta they just put out is being sold as a complete level 5 self-driving system when in actuality it's a fancy level 2 self-driving system. That kind of thing leads to the general public being put at risk by drivers not really understanding the limitations of the system they're using. Their CEO is also a malignant narcissist.

[Todd Amunrud]

The kid is smart and recognizes the value of electric cars vs. internal combustion. The beef is with the styling, which you have to admit is a bit more Cuisinart than car. It’s OK to point out that something is wanting for a bit of character, and let off some harmless steam in the process.

To be a fly on the wall when Ford vehicles started appearing in carriage houses And we picked 2 pretty ugly cars for many people’s auto styling.

[Saab2000]

there are a couple reasons not to dig Tesla. Styling is a valid criticism. The fit and finish on their cars also tends to be dreadful. The customer base is seemingly willing to overlook stuff that other manufacturers would be skewered for. Frunks with no emergency mechanical release. Drive units with a high initial failure rate. Doors and windows that don't work. Home depot building supplies being used to secure part of the battery assembly. Cars with incredible performance repeatibility issues due to heat management struggles. It goes on and on.

My biggest gripe with Tesla though is their corporate culture. They're consistent with over promising and missing self imposed deadlines. Their misrepresentation of their autonomous tech is especially troublesome. The "full self-driving" beta they just put out is being sold as a complete level 5 self-driving system when in actuality it's a fancy level 2 self-driving system. That kind of thing leads to the general public being put at risk by drivers not really understanding the limitations of the system they're using. Their CEO is also a malignant narcissist.

Your points are all valid. I’m still on board. I’m an investor and not neutral on the subject of Tesla. But I completely agree with most of your comments and see the validity in all of them. It’s imperfect but I’m hopeful they get these QC issues sorted, among other valid gripes.

[Todd Amunrud]

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We have a mobile service appt next week to fix this and another piece of loose trim. Under warranty. We went into this car watching hours of YouTube reviews since it’s release in March. We’ve had it one month and are satisfied with the purchase so far. Even with this issue. My wife does bristle at Elon Musk’s name though.

[rwsaunders]

I hear all of the Tesla fanboys in my hood who’ve paid beyond sticker for a Model 3 and then I keep reading about Tesla’s string of low scores for reliability. They’re not on my radar until they lose the low ratings and lose Elon Musk. The best is when a friend described the Tesla plant as a having 1980’s technology assembling the car of the future....someday perhaps.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/24/tesla...quality-study/

[Lionel]

The only thing it took for me not to want a Telsa is to drive one.

[vertical_doug]

I hear all of the Tesla fanboys in my hood who’ve paid beyond sticker for a Model 3 and then I keep reading about Tesla’s string of low scores for reliability. They’re not on my radar until they lose the low ratings and lose Elon Musk. The best is when a friend described the Tesla plant as a having 1980’s technology assembling the car of the future....someday perhaps.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/24/tesla...quality-study/

If you don't need the range, the Audi E-tron is slick. Otherwise wait for the Mercedes EQC. There is a 6mo+ wait in Europe and it should go on sale in US next year. (I was scheduled this year, but with no chance of meeting European demand, why bring US into the mix)

[Saab2000]

If you don't need the range, the Audi E-tron is slick. Otherwise wait for the Mercedes EQC. There is a 6mo+ wait in Europe and it should go on sale in US next year. (I was scheduled this year, but with no chance of meeting European demand, why bring US into the mix)

I've generally heard good things about the E-Tron and someone in my neighborhood had one. The sound it makes is cool/interesting. Sounds a bit like a sci-fi vehicle from Star Wars or Star Trek. This sound is created to give pedestrians and other road users (cyclists) an aural cue that another vehicle is nearby. It wasn't an offensive noise at all.

One thing about electric cars that doesn't matter to most people but it is interesting: they're really heavy. I did a double take when I read the weight of the E-Tron.

[72gmc]

Yes, and Audis are already heavy by default.

Some level of sound--not a specific sound, but an amount of it--should be a required feature for electric cars. People with different sensory abilities should have the tools they need to avoid unwanted contact with a car. Manufacturers can compete on sfx.

[rmplum]

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...g-requirements

"Automakers will get at least six more months to meet new federal requirements for noise-making devices on electric cars and hybrids, Reuters reported Friday. The extension is being granted due to the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.

The so-called "quiet car" rule requires electrified vehicles to emit noises at speeds up to 18.6 mph as a warning to pedestrians and cyclists. Lack of exhaust noise makes cars harder to hear at these speeds, but tire noise, wind buffeting, and other sounds pick up at higher speeds, regulators have said."

[Tom]

I'm telling you, my idea that was gonna make me a million bucks was to have a Prius emit noises like a 454 big block with straight pipes. They said they weren't interested and now there are regulations. Dummies.

[RichTheRoadie]

Some level of sound--not a specific sound, but an amount of it--should be a required feature for electric cars. People with different sensory abilities should have the tools they need to avoid unwanted contact with a car. Manufacturers can compete on sfx.

Sound on, watch the story (click their round icon): https://www.instagram.com/totem.automobili/ - oh; and just slightly gorgeous, no?

[72gmc]

https://www.greencarreports.com/news...g-requirements

"Automakers will get at least six more months to meet new federal requirements for noise-making devices on electric cars and hybrids, Reuters reported Friday. The extension is being granted due to the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.

The so-called "quiet car" rule requires electrified vehicles to emit noises at speeds up to 18.6 mph as a warning to pedestrians and cyclists. Lack of exhaust noise makes cars harder to hear at these speeds, but tire noise, wind buffeting, and other sounds pick up at higher speeds, regulators have said."

It worked! Now I'll complain about the lack of a mandate for daytime running lights.

[9tubes]

One thing about electric cars that doesn't matter to most people but it is interesting: they're really heavy. I did a double take when I read the weight of the E-Tron.

[Snark switch fully on]

The Mercedes is 5500 pounds. Between the weight and lots of sound insulation you'll hardly notice running over the cyclists.

It has a range of under 200 miles (per C&D). It's a rolling cognitive dissonance. A big vehicle to tote all your manly-man outdoor stuff and has high ground clearance for getting out into the wilderness, but without the range to actually get there and back.

As for buying one? All that for only $75,000+.

[/s]

[9tubes]

Sound on, watch the story (click their round icon): https://www.instagram.com/totem.automobili/ - oh; and just slightly gorgeous, no?

OMFG. That is the sexiest car I've seen all year. Wait. That's the sexiest anything I've seen all year.

Power 518 hp
Torque 693 lb-ft
Weight 1410 kg

Perfect counterpoint to the Mercedes eTSW (tall station wagon).



_

[j44ke]

What noise do they have to make? I hope it is something like the Mr. Softee Ice Cream truck.