2020 Political Chatter

[j44ke]

Electoral count resumes at 8PM.

[AngryScientist]

haha, and no tweets for you for 12 hours.

[colker]

While my normal reaction would be the same as those who point out the differences between this summer and now as proving a bias (I really believe there is), I will say I think they got so slammed not just in the press but in their own look at how it went down before that the didn’t want to be “as muscular” on protesters going forward. At least that is what I have seen from the NYPD at the protest focal point that I live next to.

And now someone is dead while the US looks like a banana republic to the world. Who is the culprit for this shit show? What about 2024... should we expect it again? After all, if it goes unpunished Trumpism will have scored major points.

[Tom]

Going to be real interesting watching the Republican party for the next year or so. Was this the pustule breaking and spraying them all with its contents?

[htwoopup]

And now someone is dead while the US looks like a banana republic to the world. Who is the culprit for this shit show? What about 2024... should we expect it again? After all, if it goes unpunished Trumpism will have scored major points.

Totally agree with that sentiment. My point was that I am wondering if maybe the police over-reacted too far to the other extreme not because of their biases but because in their mind « they learned from their mistakes ».

Essentially just trying to cool things down because I think we, as humans, need to think things through calmly (which is very very difficult to do at this point).

I also note, that the toadie Secretary of Defense issued a very strong statement about talking to Pence, McConnell, Schumer, Pelosi, et alia EXCEPT Trump and the military upholding the Constitiution. And also Pence’s statement that he did this that and the other thing. I hate the guy but I think he said the right thing and it very pointedly left out Trump as being talked to.

As the Democratic head of Foreign Relations committee said « It is unfortunate that it makes you feel better that the President is not being involved in a time of crisis ».

[j44ke]

While my normal reaction would be the same as those who point out the differences between this summer and now as proving a bias (I really believe there is), I will say I think they got so slammed not just in the press but in their own look at how it went down before that the didn’t want to be “as muscular” on protesters going forward. At least that is what I have seen from the NYPD at the protest focal point that I live next to.

Except that differences are not just between summer and now. They are just more starkly outlined when a bunch of white guys in irregular military garb show up and the cops begin the confrontation with the word "Please..."

But you have a point when you say they didn't want to be "as muscular" on protestors going forward, but isn't that bad police work? Shouldn't they strive for appropriate measures as needed explicitly by the situation? If they over-compensate and beat down people in one confrontation and then under-compensate in another confrontation and jeopardize the safety of citizens - and the safety of our country's government and institutions - aren't those the same mistake in different directions? It just says to me that for all the investment in law enforcement, we are not getting our money's worth when it comes to dealing with mass demonstrations and social conflict. We are still using the same approaches of 40-50-60 and more years ago. Where's the innovation and improvement?

[htwoopup]

aren't those the same mistake in different directions? It just says to me that for all the investment in law enforcement, we are not getting our money's worth when it comes to dealing with mass demonstrations and social conflict. We are still using the same approaches of 40-50-60 and more years ago. Where's the innovation and improvement?

Agreed. That’s why every night when I walk the dog at Carl Shurz Park at Gracie Mansion I wear my defund the police mask and move their barricades off the sidewalk while yelling at them that they have to stop illegally blocking the sidewalk and « arresting » my movement without cause. They have stopped fighting with me every night. I think they just think « oh here’s the crazy old guy with the Great Dane. Leave the barricade down until he passes by going back to his apartment. » Of course, they may leave it down because they used to have almost 100 cops there every night with riot gear and long guns and choppers and now they only have 2 cops sitting in a squad car so they don’t have the manpower to put them up every time someone throws the barricades on the ground. On the other side of this cop thing..I have personally been involved in giving over 60 scholarships to John Jay College to cops to help them be better at what they do. Just wanted to say that so here on the internet it is understood that I think there are valid arguments on both sides of the policing thing.

I also think on the whole thing (not the cop part but the issue) is either the end of something or (as Colker was getting at I think) the start of something. Being an optimist, I believe this will somehow make us stronger so that the crazy train...even if it is a start of something...will be stopped at the station.

[ColonelJLloyd]

While my normal reaction would be the same as those who point out the differences between this summer and now as proving a bias (I really believe there is), I will say I think they got so slammed not just in the press but in their own look at how it went down before that the didn’t want to be “as muscular” on protesters going forward.

This is also my take on the response today. You know what they say about good intentions, though.

[colker]

Except that differences are not just between summer and now. They are just more starkly outlined when a bunch of white guys in irregular military garb show up and the cops begin the confrontation with the word "Please..."

I probably can´t think straight but if a bunch of white guys show up in military garb to confront a national institution i read a subliminar message "we are the army now... not you, softies in police uniform". If i am in charge of security i will harden the f up immediately.

[thollandpe]

Totally agree with that sentiment. My point was that I am wondering if maybe the police over-reacted too far to the other extreme not because of their biases but because in their mind « they learned from their mistakes »

I don’t think so. This wasn’t simply a matter of the Capitol police not using pepper spray. Or not deliberately firing head shots with tear gas canisters or bean bag rounds. Or helping an elderly person down the stairs instead of laying them flat out on the pavement and breaking their skull.

They pulled aside the barricades and let them in. It has been captured on video for us all to see.

[beeatnik]

While my normal reaction would be the same as those who point out the differences between this summer and now as proving a bias (I really believe there is), I will say I think they got so slammed not just in the press but in their own look at how it went down before that the didn’t want to be “as muscular” on protesters going forward. At least that is what I have seen from the NYPD at the protest focal point that I live next to.

Today in LA.

epiphany.jpeg

epiphany2.jpeg

epiphany3.jpeg

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJuaiL5l..._web_copy_link

[j44ke]

I don’t think so. This wasn’t simply a matter of the Capitol police not using pepper spray. Or not deliberately firing head shots with tear gas canisters or bean bag rounds. Or helping an elderly person down the stairs instead of laying them flat out on the pavement and breaking their skull.

They pulled aside the barricades and let them in. It has been captured on video for us all to see.

Yeah so there is going to be some explaining required. See one video here.

[e-RICHIE]

Yeah so there is going to be some explaining required. See one video here.

Do you need the app to view this?

[j44ke]

Do you need the app to view this?

No should start playing at the link destination.

Marcus DiPaola is the photographer. Here is his main page.

[colker]

Do you need the app to view this?

I can see it on firefox.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Do you need the app to view this?

It wouldn't play for me initially either (I do not have a TikTok account/app), but is now playing.

[j44ke]

I think potentially the footage doesn't show complicity with the protestors, but instead shows outnumbered cops retreating to positions where their numbers are better - more concentrated. Falling back to the doors of the Capitol perhaps. But that's just conjecture. The cops are not moving with what I would call alacrity. Not as if there were an emergency. Tells me that communication may have been non-existent or faulty. Radios should have been screaming at that point I'd think. There will undoubtedly be a hearing in Congress on the failures involved in this event, and videos like this will illustrate some of the questions asked.

Sounds too like there were a lot of drunk guys there, but then there were also several well-organized groups who were among the first to enter. They included the ransackers of some of the key Congressional offices. So some people had plans.

[72gmc]

Political remedies are only part of an appropriate response to this. He needs to be arrested and charged. Otherwise, this becomes a tactic for a future follower.

[j44ke]

My wife posited that this has all been a charade to allow Pence to invoke the 25th with the acquiescence of the required parties in Congress etc., become acting President and then turn around and pardon Trump. Trumps A#1 fear is prosecution evidently. Quintessential Emperor-has-no-clothes moment.

I like it as a screenplay, but I think in reality the guy is just a maniac.

[e-RICHIE]

My wife posited that this has all been a charade to allow Pence to invoke the 25th with the acquiescence of the required parties in Congress etc., become acting President and then turn around and pardon Trump. Trumps A#1 fear is prosecution evidently. Quintessential Emperor-has-no-clothes moment.

I like it as a screenplay, but I think in reality the guy is just a maniac.

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