irrational fear of flying

[Saab2000]

Oh boy, not looking good for P&W. These were the hollow titanium fan blades and this report says it lost one at the root and another at mid-span. Similar to an uncontained failure in 2018, which ironically happened to the same airplane that these passengers got on afterward. And another contained failure on a Japan Air Lines 777.

UNITED 777-200 UPDATE: FAA TO GROUND AFFECTED JETS - Mentour Pilot

Mentour Pilot is IMHO, by far the best YouTube channel for aviation-curious folks to learn a lot. I love his down-to-earth approach on all things.

As to the "Contained" vs "Uncontained" failure I learned something else yesterday on the Blancolirio channel on YouTube. He's another good one. He explained how these aren't technically uncontained and that the testing of engines for these failures often doesn't include the inlet cowling or even the outer casing of the engine.

I think you have been involved in engine testing and development and obviously I haven't, so I'm not challenging you on this but I found his explanation very interesting. He discusses this and how the broken fan blade likely was expelled out the front of the engine, slicing the inlet ring at about the 3:50 point of this video. He flies 777s for one of the major airlines.

[thollandpe]

Yeah, “uncontained” vs. “contained” is something that’s often reported wrong.

It can still be contained if the engine shed pieces of the inlet or nacelle. The JAL 777 blade-out was originally reported as uncontained but was probably contained.

If a blade flies out the front of the engine, remember that it’s pulling like mad on its root to make the plane go forward, then it’s uncontained. Like the CFM fan blade failures on the Southwest 737s. “Contained”, as I once understood it, is keeping all the high-energy pieces (rotating blades) inside the engine. Not that bits don’t come off. As I’m sure you can attest, it doesn’t take presenting very much area at 350 knots to get you removed from the aircraft.



Very happy that this level of oversight, the FAA bird strike and blade-out tests, exists here in the US.

[jclay]

Interesting article: http://aerossurance.com/safety-manag...77-pw4077-fbo/

My, what a big compressor fan you have! Having one of those let go is just something you don't really want to happen.

Multi generational aviation family, engineer, helped build a glider, read a fair bit, turned a lot of wrenches in my life....and every time I'm in an airliner I'm just gob-smacked that they fly; that the bazillions of pieces parts that need to work, work; hell, I'm amazed that the turbine bearings, alone, work! It really is staggering.

[busdriver1959]

The PW 4000 blades are failing because they're ugly. if I was a PW blade and I found out that GE 90 blades existed, I'd quit too.EFC45A2F-EB3F-4898-B0FF-1E49A82B50D5.jpg

[thollandpe]

The PW 4000 blades are failing because they're ugly. if I was a PW blade and I found out that GE 90 blades existed, I'd quit too.

Them’s fightin words! I guess if you have a GE90 on the wing there’s some synergy with the appliance that cooked your Toaster Strudel for breakfast. They bring good things to life.

[thollandpe]

<snip> PW <yadda yadda yadda> GE <snip>

I think it was my senior year when one of these beasts showed up on a stand in the yard behind the old engineering building (which also hosted bits of the collapsed roof from the Hartford Civic Center). No idea what happened to it. But I hope that it got to run again.



That ain’t no toaster oven.

[bigbill]

Them’s fightin words! I guess if you have a GE90 on the wing there’s some synergy with the appliance that cooked your Toaster Strudel for breakfast. They bring good things to life.

GE builds nukelar reactors for submarines too. We powered toasters with our GE reactor.

[gregl]

GE builds nukelar reactors for submarines too. We powered toasters with our GE reactor.

Reminds me of a phone call I made to Siemens USA tech support. I needed some help integrating a fiber optic switch for an airport radar system we were designing for the Frankfurt, Germany airport. The tech rep wasn’t familiar with the specific switch since it was not released in the US. He apologized and said that since Siemens made everything from coffee makers to nuclear reactors, he wasn’t familiar with all their products. I told him it was no problem, but I did need some help with my nuclear reactor...

Greg

[gregl]

I think it was my senior year when one of these beasts showed up on a stand in the yard behind the old engineering building (which also hosted bits of the collapsed roof from the Hartford Civic Center). No idea what happened to it. But I hope that it got to run again.

That ain’t no toaster oven.

Now that’s an engine! Imagine six of those corncob monstrosities powering a B-36. I remember watching a C-124 take off as a kid, listening to their roar. I think there’s one each C-97, Super Corsair, and Martin Mars still flying with those engines.



Greg

[Dave Thompson]

Now that’s an engine! Imagine six of those corncob monstrosities powering a B-36. I remember watching a C-124 take off as a kid, listening to their roar. I think there’s one each C-97, Super Corsair, and Martin Mars still flying with those engines.


Greg

I was a USAF mechanic on C-124s in the early 60s. I often had to attend engine run-ups to test our fixes or equipment. When all 4 of those monster engines were at full chat, the inside of the aircraft was like being in a huge drum with a million gorillas beating on it. Gahd I loved it!

The downside of being inside those aircraft was they cruised at 200mph and the trip from Hickam AFB Hawaii to Travis AFB California was 2500 miles, 12 hours inside a drum with a million gorillas beating on it. I made that trip a number of times.

[j44ke]

Now that’s an engine! Imagine six of those corncob monstrosities powering a B-36. I remember watching a C-124 take off as a kid, listening to their roar. I think there’s one each C-97, Super Corsair, and Martin Mars still flying with those engines.



Greg

Jimmie Stewart was a military pilot for years, active and reserve. He probably could actually fly that plane.

[Mabouya]

You guys do know that the USAF now flies aircraft that don't use radial engines, right? ; )

[Dave Thompson]

You guys do know that the USAF now flies aircraft that don't use radial engines, right? ; )

Wait...what?

[gregl]

You guys do know that the USAF now flies aircraft that don't use radial engines, right? ; )

Oh, we know. And no one in their right mind wants to return to the challenges of maintaining and flying high strung radials in regular operations. There's a reason the Lockheed Constellation was known as "the world's best tri-motor." But we can still fondly remember those beautiful old planes and engines. Heck, I can go to Dayton and see examples of at least three aircraft types I flew in the Air Force Museum...

Greg

[Mabouya]

I'm just teasing.

Back in the late 50's and early 60's my maternal grandfather worked in the test shop (not sure exactly what they called it) at Pratt & Whitney in Hartford, CT. I was just a little kid when he died, so I never had a chance to talk shop with him, but I do have a bunch of his old tools.

[thollandpe]

I'm just teasing.

Back in the late 50's and early 60's my maternal grandfather worked in the test shop (not sure exactly what they called it) at Pratt & Whitney in Hartford, CT. I was just a little kid when he died, so I never had a chance to talk shop with him, but I do have a bunch of his old tools.

Wilgoos Test Lab. The place was still active when I worked there, got to see them run an F100 (for an F15 or F16) through its paces. Including full seg 5 afterburner. Never forget the sight of the tens digit on the fuel flow meter becoming a blur and the hundreds digit ticking like a metronome.

In afterburner they would spray water into the test cell exhaust shaft to keep it cool. You could see the plume for miles, and the flocks of birds that would surf the thermal.

[Jason Musgrave]

The PW 4000 blades are failing because they're ugly. if I was a PW blade and I found out that GE 90 blades existed, I'd quit too.EFC45A2F-EB3F-4898-B0FF-1E49A82B50D5.jpg

Ha, thanks for a good laugh this morning. I build these things for GE so my opinion is definitely biased but when I moved from the Titanium bladed CFM56 to the composite LEAP blades it was a big "whoa - so that's ~30 years of development progression" moment!

Once we can get past Covid I'd love to give you, Saab (or any other Salonista in the aviation field) a tour of our shop if you had a RDU flight with a few hours of layover. We are the sole supplier for GE90s, GEnx, GE9X, and build the vast majority of Leaps and are also working CFM and CF34-8 and -10s again.

[bigbill]

Oh, we know. And no one in their right mind wants to return to the challenges of maintaining and flying high strung radials in regular operations. There's a reason the Lockheed Constellation was known as "the world's best tri-motor." But we can still fondly remember those beautiful old planes and engines. Heck, I can go to Dayton and see examples of at least three aircraft types I flew in the Air Force Museum...

Greg

The sail (conning tower) from my last submarine is a memorial in downtown Bremerton, WA. Get off my lawn.

[gregl]

The sail (conning tower) from my last submarine is a memorial in downtown Bremerton, WA. Get off my lawn.

As you alluded to 20 posts back, you definitely have done some cool stuff. Were you on the Parche for some of her more "interesting" missions? I'm assuming the answer is the standard "I can neither confirm nor deny..."

Greg

[bigbill]

As you alluded to 20 posts back, you definitely have done some cool stuff. Were you on the Parche for some of her more "interesting" missions? I'm assuming the answer is the standard "I can neither confirm nor deny..."

Greg

I did 4 missions and got one Presidential Unit Citation. I was the Chief Electrician and left as an officer right before Mission 2000. As an officer, I did 3 carriers (68,69,71) and one repair ship.