Insomnia

[bbillington]

For the last 12 years or so, I’ve battled with insomnia. As with many parents, it starts when our kids are babies, when interrupted sleep leads to an inability to sleep soundly and one finds oneself waking easily and unable to return to slumber.

I fall asleep fine and typically wake 3-4 hours later. If I’m lucky I can sleep for an additional hour or so. I tend to give up around 3:30-4AM at which time I make coffee and either get on the trainer or wait for sunrise to go out for a ride. My training has my caloric needs around 5,000 cal/day to maintain my current weight. I mention this only to say there’s no shortage of exercise and physical labor in my life.

I don’t drink coffee after 9 AM. I eat well, don’t drink soda or consume much sugar.

I don’t take prescription medications and will not consider benzodiazepines or other sleep aids.

Marijuana was the only natural solution to helping me sleep but I stopped that a long ways back because of its impact on other facets of my life... training, motivation, overeating, etc.

I’ve tried meditation.
I take melatonin and valerian.
I limit screen time at night.
I have a white noise generator.
I tried baths.
Tea.
Sex.
Breathing techniques.
Alcohol.
Everything.

Something has to give. Anyone else spend hours feeling alone while your family sleeps? Anyone here kick this shit and if so, how?

[Matthew Strongin]

I'm all ears too. Though my issue is the opposite...my insomnia prevents me from falling asleep. It started in high school and comes and goes throughout the years. The last 6 months or so have brought it on full force and I'm not sleeping at all (or just for an hour or two) every 3-4 days. I'll be tired and if anything disturbs me right at the point where I'm about to fall asleep, whether it's a noise or a thought, I missed my window and I'll be awake all night. I'm reading about meditation and hope that helps, but could always use some additional and hopefully more immediate help. I'm tired.

[Saab2000]

Alcohol is bad for sleep.

Your symptoms mimic mine quite closely. I sleep well for several hours then it's done. Sometimes I get back to sleep for the rest of the night, sometimes not. What I have found is that my body will eventually fall back to sleep and often the last 60-90 minutes are the deep, restful sleep we need.

I've been working early AM shifts for 25 years and right now I'm on a sort of sabbatical from my work and sleeping more has been the greatest part of it. I haven't set an alarm in months. This will eventually end but I'm enjoying it for now.

My only suggestions would be to consider your alcohol intake. It's well known to be bad for sleep. I know this first hand. Additionally, a post-lunch nap can do wonders. Otherwise, don't give up at 4 AM. I'd try to get back to sleep for another couple hours if you can. That's the lowest point of your body's circadian cycle and you may be up for a couple hours but may succeed for those lowest hours. When I can get back to sleep those are the deepest couple hours for me and the best.

Avoid your phone or iPad or similar during the night. If you read, read paper. I need the darkest room possible. Consider that.

[chrisn]

5,000 calories a day suggests you must be doing a fairly high amount of training/exercise. I know you also tend to put in a lot of miles on the bike Matt... I think there can be a link with over-exercising and the resultant high levels of endorphins, causing you to struggle with sleep. Probably not what you want to hear, but it can be a 'thing' for some highly active people.

[ides1056]

I made weed shortbread last winter. The problem is finding the theraputic dose, because it's never consistent. One day it's x, another half/x.

[bbillington]

Thanks for the input, gents. Matthew—I know that window of opportunity well but for me it comes when I’m trying to fall back asleep. I can get so close to it and then it’s gone. Saab— I don’t really drink. Hardly ever even a beer—was just noting that it hadn’t helped on the rare occasion I have more than one. Good call on the total darkness comment. My new house has two neighbors across the valley who have the brightest spotlights imaginable in their backyards, shining with laser-like precision into our bedroom. I’ve considered an air rifle with a sniper scope.

Chris—I’ve been thin all my life and it’s hard to maintain my weight and muscle mass while training with intensity. My wife and her sisters roll their eyes at me and say things like “I wish I had your problem”. Personally I don’t think they have a clue what it’s like. I weigh my food and track calories to ensure I’m eating enough.

[Todd Amunrud]

I would recommend a sleep medicine specialist. Be direct about no interest in medication interventions(if that’s an important part of your approach).

[j44ke]

Just an idea here - Is it negatively affecting your health? It may be frustrating because you feel like you should be sleeping, but if you are high functioning during the day and not making errors from fatigue or injuring yourself, maybe the adjustment isn't that you need to sleep more when you can't sleep. I guess heart health depends on a certain depth of sleep, so maybe keep tabs on the aspects of health that can be adversely affected by lack of sleep but otherwise, if you aren't groggy and tired and operating at reduced abilities to cope with the day, maybe what your body is doing isn't entirely a negative.

On the other hand, my wife was famous for not sleeping. It was an incredible ability that came in handy during the early years of her law career. She could just stay awake for days and get huge amounts of work done. Then one day she started vibrating. Literally. Sent her to the doctor and her thyroxine levels were off the charts. She had hyperthyroid and that was literally keeping her awake at night (and a whole host of other things related to thyroid levels that just seemed like high metabolism.) She sleeps a lot better now. She still wakes up at 4AM, but now she's sleeping 6 hours instead of one or two or zero.

[j44ke]

Thanks for the input, gents. Matthew—I know that window of opportunity well but for me it comes when I’m trying to fall back asleep. I can get so close to it and then it’s gone. Saab— I don’t really drink. Hardly ever even a beer—was just noting that it hadn’t helped on the rare occasion I have more than one. Good call on the total darkness comment. My new house has two neighbors across the valley who have the brightest spotlights imaginable in their backyards, shining with laser-like precision into our bedroom. I’ve considered an air rifle with a sniper scope.

Chris—I’ve been thin all my life and it’s hard to maintain my weight and muscle mass while training with intensity. My wife and her sisters roll their eyes at me and say things like “I wish I had your problem”. Personally I don’t think they have a clue what it’s like. I weigh my food and track calories to ensure I’m eating enough.

As I understand from my wife's experience, that sort of metabolic rate can be related to thyroid. Can be. Only a doctor can say one way or the other. You have to get checked and tested in order to make that determination. Usually it is one of those things that appears on the printout after the lab does the blood test associated with a physical, but our doctor did a targeted test when my wife went in. Worth a discussion with your doctor.

[ides1056]

I can not sleep if there is any light of any kind, or a repetitive noise, whether clock ticking or water dripping. Ear plugs and eye shades come in handy even living out in the woods where I never hear a siren. Most importantly, I don't panic any more when I can't sleep. I have books by the bed and just get to it if meditation doesn't work. Depending on the time of year and the phase of the moon sleep might be hard to come by. Just is. Transitioning from one sport to another, skiing to cycling, has myriad associated aches and pains that don't register while I am awake, but do when I am asleep. Hydration is also really important for me, with electrolytes.

[swt]

I struggle with waking up around 2-4 each morning. My brain usually just decides it's time to switch on for the day. Most nights I can make it work and sneak a few more hours in until daylight, but not always.

I do a few things.

- I love my whoop. The feedback it gives me is invaluable and I love waking up in the morning with a green circle even after I've been awake for a few hours in the 2-4 zone.
- I go to bed at 8-9 most nights. This sounds super frumpy and my wife doesn't love it, but it gives me the necessary time cushion. Even if I can't get back to sleep I can usually get in 6 hours, which is usually enough.
- I generally don't drink alcohol, except in rare circumstances, and when I do I definitely notice that it ruins my sleep.
- This is going to sound goofy but I sleep under a blankey. My wife and daughter found a pretty basic blanket at Target that for whatever reason has magical narcotic properties for me. I really can't sleep under a comforter at all any more. The texture, the weight, and the thermoregulation are what work for me.

I'd echo other commenters that (1) you might be overtrained, and (2) go see a doctor. HTH

[ides1056]

as chance would have it this popped up on the Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/20/h...gtype=Homepage

I had my physical last week and my doc gave me a prescription for Acyclovir, to treat cold sores. He mentioned promising studies that show, taken as a prophylactic, it has a salutary effect re: dementia. Both his parents came down with it so he's watching this development with particular interest.

[bbillington]

I appreciate reading the experiences of others and the helpful suggestions you’ve given. It has always felt like such a lonely battle for me. Everyone wishes me well and is supportive in this, but it’s still just me lying awake or heading to the garage at 3 to ride and watch our cycling heroes as I suffer along with them. Once I’m fully vaccinated I will seek out a doctor to help.

[KonaSS]

I have very similar sleeping issues. Go to bed between 9-10. Don't have much problem falling asleep. Usually wake around 2:00 +/- 30 minutes. From there, sometimes I fall back asleep, but it is generally poor sleep where I toss and turn, and sometimes I can't fall back asleep at all. Even on my best nights, I wake up between 4-5 without an alarm. Tried almost all the things without much success. My best tips generally revolve around living with it.

1. As someone else said, go to bed early as that is when I get my best sleep. If I stay up late, that is just lost sleeping time for me.

2. As frustrating as the whole situation is, I try to not stress out about it. Even on the worst of nights, I usually get through the next day just fine. Some days, I have a great training day, get in a good day of work and don't even notice. So I try and lay in bed, think pleasant thoughts, and sometimes I doze in and out of sleep again. When I do get frustrated and stressed about falling back asleep, or when the mind is just racing, I just get out of bed. I go to the couch, turn on a nature program or bike racing (I love watching it but for some reason it puts me to sleep) and sometimes that takes my mind off of not sleeping and I doze off a bit. But you could try reading or whatever. Just don't lay in bed and worry about not sleeping, as that to me is the most frustrating feeling in the world.

[SlowPokePete]

I don't have insomnia, but I don't really sleep well, either.

Years ago I had pretty severe sleep apnea. Even spent a night in a hospital room once to diagnose it. But I was pretty overweight, and I don't think that is an affliction for me anymore.

Anyway, I used to fall asleep around 7 pm every night, and was usually up by 4 am. I smoked a lot of weed up until the last day of 2020, when I quit.

Niw, I get in bed around 8 pm, usually fall asleep around 9 pm, and get up around 6 am.

So, same number of hours.

But here's the thing...I never really get into that deep sleep. I'm up about every two hours to pee, and have been this way since childhood. Sucks pretty bad when camping in a tent, but tolerable in every day life since I can usually get right back to sleep without issue.

When I first quit smoking, I had a lot more trouble falling asleep. Not so much anymore. And I like being awake until a more acceptable time of night...asleep by 7 pm is pretty dam early. The other problem now is the litany of dreams. Not really nightmares so to speak, but annoying dreams.

Anyway, I know this is a bit off topic, but figured I'd share my own sleep experience.

And Matt, what you're going through...not sleeping for days at a time...that really sound rough.

Good luck to the OP, and others, in finding some relief.

SPP

[COVRTDESIGN]

CBD has helped me a lot. I would sleep maybe 2 hours a night for 8 years after my head injury in Iraq.

Reading for the last hour before bed and keeping all electronics away from you is a great help as well.

I will post more about my fight and solutions when I get home.

[Peter Polack]

You definitely should see a doctor or get a referral to a sleep specialist clinic.

I have age-related sleep issues. I have to echo what Covrtdesign says above: limit screen time before bed; limit electronics; and reading. If/when I wake up in the middle of the night, I stay in bed and read, using one of those itty bitty lights that clip to the book so the entire room isn't lit. That helps me fall back to sleep.

Drug assisted sleep should be a last resort.

[rydesteel]

Our Daughter uses a weighted Blanket which seems to help.

[Mabouya]

Edit: post deleted

I see Jay beat me to it above.

[bbillington]

I struggle with waking up around 2-4 each morning. My brain usually just decides it's time to switch on for the day. Most nights I can make it work and sneak a few more hours in until daylight, but not always.

I do a few things.

- I love my whoop. The feedback it gives me is invaluable and I love waking up in the morning with a green circle even after I've been awake for a few hours in the 2-4 zone.
- I go to bed at 8-9 most nights. This sounds super frumpy and my wife doesn't love it, but it gives me the necessary time cushion. Even if I can't get back to sleep I can usually get in 6 hours, which is usually enough.
- I generally don't drink alcohol, except in rare circumstances, and when I do I definitely notice that it ruins my sleep.
- This is going to sound goofy but I sleep under a blankey. My wife and daughter found a pretty basic blanket at Target that for whatever reason has magical narcotic properties for me. I really can't sleep under a comforter at all any more. The texture, the weight, and the thermoregulation are what work for me.

I'd echo other commenters that (1) you might be overtrained, and (2) go see a doctor. HTH

Just signed up for a year of Whoop membership. Looks like a promising tool!