Terrible mistake in Afghanistan.

[jimcav]

You can just wear the top 3. not everyone chooses to wear all awards received. Bill has a great point. I too saw too many examples of individuals intent on making rank, achieving command, etc; and unwilling to push back on bad ideas.

It is hard enough to do the job, but competing to make advancement or promotion, always a specter of next assignment options, not to mention being 'voluntold' to do "collateral" duties piled on top of the main job; it can be very hard to "speak truth to power", and those in power rarely give one credit for that. Too many instead make life miserable for those who stand up to them. One of the challenges of being in the military is the inherent conflict of how to challenge poor leaders and policy when it can kill progression of your career. And you can't just quit, as you have defined periods of service, and certain levels you must reach if you are allowed to stay to get a pension.

[colker]

Taking such action would be painted by those holding a more extreme religious view as a form of modern day crusade and hence fostering another generation of terrorists willing to go to extreme lengths to blow people up.

You just described what has been going on in Europe for the last 30yrs. I am not the kind of paranoid raging fear for the death of western civilization... i am not that kind of lunatic... but otoh there is nothing as contemporary as religious conflict.

[Corso]

completely agree. even if the taliban somehow manages to fly a black hawk, that helicopter will not be operational long.

Until the Chinese bang out replacement parts for them...

[rwsaunders]

completely agree. even if the taliban somehow manages to fly a black hawk, that helicopter will not be operational long.

That equipment will quickly be sold to Russia and China, who will then harvest the technology and sell their version of the reproduction to the rest of the world.

[fastupslowdown]

That equipment will quickly be sold to Russia and China, who will then harvest the technology and sell their version of the reproduction to the rest of the world.

I don't think so. Blackhawk helicopters came out in the 1974. The Afghan army wasn't NATO or Israel. The United States was never going to leave the Afghan army cutting edge state of the art equipment

[rwsaunders]

^ Helicopters are just a small piece of the pie and obviously, we have been giving arms to Afghanistan since Russia spent time there. FWIW, the Blackhawk entered service in 1979 and they continue to upgrade and manufacture the units. I wouldn’t know the version that the Taliban now own.

[fastupslowdown]

^ Helicopters are just a small piece of the pie and obviously, we have been giving arms to Afghanistan since Russia spent time there. FWIW, the Blackhawk entered service in 1979 and they continue to upgrade and manufacture the units. I wouldn’t know the version that the Taliban now own.

The United States sells Taiwan decades old technology out of fear of upsetting China, Brazil's airforce uses the F5. We're always sensitive to the fact that a country might not be trusted with the tech

[Mark Kelly]

We also made more admirals while we reduced the number of ships. Go figure.

Parkinson's Law redux.

Almost perfectly literally: Parkinson's original thesis was based on the growth of the Admiralty during the decline of the Royal Navy when Brittania stopped ruling the waves.

[bigbill]

^ Helicopters are just a small piece of the pie and obviously, we have been giving arms to Afghanistan since Russia spent time there. FWIW, the Blackhawk entered service in 1979 and they continue to upgrade and manufacture the units. I wouldn’t know the version that the Taliban now own.

Not the latest. Basically a demil version flown by the ANA. The Chinese, Iranians, and Russians know how to build helicopters, there isn't much useful for them if a Blackhawk ended up in their hands. Could be used for propaganda much like the Tomcats Iran possesses from the old Shah days. When I retired in 2012, the Iranians could only get one airborne plus they're A models, not the Tom Cruise Tomcat.

[fastupslowdown]

Not the latest. Basically a demil version flown by the ANA. The Chinese, Iranians, and Russians know how to build helicopters, there isn't much useful for them if a Blackhawk ended up in their hands. Could be used for propaganda much like the Tomcats Iran possesses from the old Shah days. When I retired in 2012, the Iranians could only get one airborne plus they're A models, not the Tom Cruise Tomcat.

thank you , you're color on this backs up what i strongly suspected

[Scott G.]

That equipment will quickly be sold to Russia and China, who will then harvest the technology and sell their version of the reproduction to the rest of the world.

The PLA already is selling a Red Black Hawk. Z-20

5d9fc272a310cf3e97a08c18.jpg

[j44ke]

The PLA already is selling a Red Black Hawk. Z-20

5d9fc272a310cf3e97a08c18.jpg

Public Library Association?

[colker]

Public Library Association?

Does that mean i could borrow one?

[BBB]

You just described what has been going on in Europe for the last 30yrs. I am not the kind of paranoid raging fear for the death of western civilization... i am not that kind of lunatic... but otoh there is nothing as contemporary as religious conflict.

Sure there has been terrorism. But, if (and going back a few posts) the west drew a line in the sand over women's rights or human rights in general and marched into countries like Afghanistan or Yemen or Saudi Arabia and effected regime change and deep social change such that women could work, vote, own property, drive a car or wear a bikini, then such actions would have deep and long lasting consequences. So, yes while there has been terrorism in Europe, I suspect the consequences of the west taking such action would be of an order of magnitude greater than anything that has happened in the last 20 or so years.

Cartoons promoted shootings in Paris. Can you imagine what overturning a religious structure that entrenches patriarchy would bring?

[rwsaunders]

More insight and opinion about the leftover military gear. I though that the excerpt below was interesting:

A report last month by the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR) indicates that the U.S.-backed Afghan military possessed more than 150 aircraft. This includes four C-130 transport aircraft, 23 Brazilian-made A-29 "Super Tucano" turboprop ground-attack aircraft, 45 UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters, and 50 smaller MD-530 choppers. In addition, Afghan forces were given more than 30 military versions of Cessna single-engine fixed-wing aircraft. It's not clear how many of those aircraft are still in Afghanistan. Uzbekistan says that hundreds of Afghan troops fled there last weekend with 22 military planes and 24 helicopters.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/21/10294...apons-captured

[echappist]

Public Library Association?

People's Liberation Army

Liberating what is a whole 'nother question though. Most common form of liberation appears to be the form involving liberation of the spirit from the corporal.

[Greg Costello]

Don´t you feel a slight empathy for girls not allowed to go to school? Do you think a tyrannical rule like the Taleban or isis has a place among other nations? "But the afhgan people like the Taleban.." just like "people" in Venezuela want Maduro. People wanted blood sacrifices, deaths on the colosseum and the fire of the inquisition on the public square. Sure, tyranny is still popular but it´s macabre show is unnacceptable.

you forget that a sizeable portion of the US population leans this way - Trump would be a tyrant if he could find a way to make it so, and while not perhaps as far an not allowing women to go school many in America are willing to let young girls be raped, even by family members, and forced to live with any kid that results (see latest Texas legislation).

[vertical_doug]

Grow a beard, and everyone looks the same.

[BBB]

you forget that a sizeable portion of the US population leans this way - Trump would be a tyrant if he could find a way to make it so, and while not perhaps as far an not allowing women to go school many in America are willing to let young girls be raped, even by family members, and forced to live with any kid that results (see latest Texas legislation).

Ah Texas. The Taliban, I mean Republicans, really know how to drag women's rights back to the dark ages.

[Saab2000]

We have an oversized military because we have too many admirals and generals. Officers that don't put anything on the line, just keep their mouths shut and follow orders. I'm saying this as a retired Naval Officer who worked up the ranks from enlisted to officer plus I have a kid in his final year at Annapolis. We allowed ourselves to have too many specializations that required their own communities because everyone deserves their own warfare pin. We allowed some group of jackasses to say we needed a new type of warship, the Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) to replace our frigates and perform multiple roles forward deployed. The LCS failed miserably, but we kept building them because they're built in Marinette, WI and Mobile, AL, and Congress was too afraid to cancel the project. The first ones are only seeing 10 years of service before they're taken out of service. A NIMITZ class carrier runs for 50 years, the newest Ticonderoga Class cruiser is 28 years old. We didn't develop a replacement for the cruisers because we were distracted by the LCS project, that no one wanted. We also made more admirals while we reduced the number of ships. Go figure.

Now here we are, countering an aggressive China in the Western Pacific with aging ships and overworked crews. We have a bunch of LCS that can't fill the role of a destroyer or cruiser. We should make some more admirals and generals to help us figure this out. But that's not their job, their job is promote new technology so that they can smoothly transition to the board of major defense contractors when they retire.

If it seems like I'm bitter about this, I am. I've seen our military become a bloated, dysfunctional organization with less capability but more "leadership" at the top. I served with many of the folks who are now admirals, about 1 in 5 was worth a shit.

I saw this kind of “career progression” when I lived in Virginia Beach. Tons of folks collecting multiple paychecks, often for the same job….. I am a civilian and was there in a role unrelated to military service but that entire corner of southeastern Virginia would be nothing more than a harbor city and a quaint beach town surrounded by farmland were it not for the US Navy and the immense DOD money in the area.