The Vaccine Thread

[Clean39T]

@beeatnik - saw this today and thought of you..

5s2j5pzbcsn71.png

[beeatnik]

@beeatnik - saw this today and thought of you..

5s2j5pzbcsn71.png

Am I reading that correctly, more Covid (Aug-Sep 2021) meant more support for the recall? Obviously that didn't make it close since those counties with higher case rates this summer are traditionally more conservative and sparsely populated.

Heard a report earlier today on NPR that areas that are entirely Latino voted 80% against the recall. In other words, communities with the highest disease burden in the state were as pro-Newsom as San Francisco. Shouldn't surprise me but it does. I mean my Mexican Catholic mom, a diehard Hilary supporter, was more pro-life than the Pope.

Meanwhile "Hispanics" in Texas....

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-po...latinos-trump/

[rwsaunders]

I received my jabs at Rite Aid and they recently sent me a link to the Clear app, where I was able to download my vaccine data in the form of a digital vaccine passport…no charge yet.

https://www.clearme.com/healthpass

[gregl]

Going to be interesting at my workplace shortly. With the upcoming mandate for Government contractors to have employees vaccinated, we were just asked to provide proof of vaccination. Until now, we’ve been on the honor system. Now it’s either upload a copy of your vaccination card (real or otherwise…) or say goodbye.

Greg

[classtimesailer]

The population was 13,438 at the 2010 census, up from 13,340 in the 2000 census. According to the 2000 U.S. Census, Palos Verdes Estates is the 81st richest place in the United States with at least 1,000 households (based upon per capita income).[/I]


https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fa...rnia/PST045219

Those folks are not out and about working 60-80 hours a week, they do all their shopping from home, and average 2 persons per 5,000+ feet of living space.

[beeatnik]

Those folks are not out and about working 60-80 hours a week, they do all their shopping from home, and average 2 persons per 5,000+ feet of living space.

That and they're all vaccinated.

[zetroc]

Please get vaccinated and encourage others to do likewise.

[bigbill]

My wife has a breakthrough case. I was vaccinated in March-April (Moderna) and she received the J&J in late May. She is sick in bed and tested positive, I'm fine and tested negative. She wears a mask around me and is sleeping in the guest room. We were in Jackson Hole last weekend for an art fair and many of the locals were not wearing masks even though the city/county requires it. We were wearing masks when inside but it's likely she got it from an unmasked person who was asymptomatic. Ironically, a local guy told me that my mask won't protect me and I pointed out it was for him, not me. How that concept is still not understood is beyond me. Wife is much better today, she said it feels like a bad cold with extra fatigue.

[Doug Fattic]

My wife has a breakthrough case. I was vaccinated in March-April (Moderna) and she received the J&J in late May. She is sick in bed and tested positive, I'm fine and tested negative. She wears a mask around me and is sleeping in the guest room. We were in Jackson Hole last weekend for an art fair and many of the locals were not wearing masks even though the city/county requires it. We were wearing masks when inside but it's likely she got it from an unmasked person who was asymptomatic. Ironically, a local guy told me that my mask won't protect me and I pointed out it was for him, not me. How that concept is still not understood is beyond me. Wife is much better today, she said it feels like a bad cold with extra fatigue.

When I was teaching English in Sapporo, Japan many years ago, I was surprised when I saw people wearing masks when out in public. The purpose I soon learned was that the mask wearer was trying to protect others from their cold germs. This is the same reason I wear a mask now every time I go indoors for any reason. Even though I don't have any symptoms, I am protecting those around me in case I am asymptomatic. Since others have no idea of my status, it can make them more comfortable too. I realize they aren't great to always protect me.

I would love to know where this anti-mask, anti-vac opinions come from. And not just from the tin foil hat nut cases. Can anyone tell me? I was riding with one of my friends and we were chatting as we were going by the orchards in Berrien County, Michigan. He said he heard on NPR that one big source that promotes anti-vaccinations comes from the companies to make immunity boosting products. Anyway that is what i heard on a bike ride.

I go to church every week and from what I've learned, it is my responsibility to do things that are in the interest of others. This is why I find it strange that the religious community has a high percentage opposed to masking and vaccinations. Because besides somewhat protecting yourself, you are doing it for the good of society.

[htwoopup]

To Doug’s question above….From a Washington Post article 2 days ago….

I know it doesn’t answer the question but it emphasizes it adn makes the attitude even more illogical to my thinking as to what he pointed out.

« An extensive Pew Research Center poll released Wednesday laid bare the steep hurdles — which go far beyond vaccine safety — when it comes to persuading the unvaccinated to get the shot and truly help stomp out a virus that is thriving upon their refusal.

The Pew poll shows about two-thirds of the unvaccinated (68 percent) say they know someone who has been hospitalized or has died of covid-19. But just 37 percent of them say the virus is a major threat to the health of the U.S. population.

While 66 percent of vaccinated people say they are worried about unknowingly spreading the virus to others, just 38 percent of unvaccinated people say the same. This is, again, among a group of people in which two-thirds say they personally know someone who has died or been hospitalized.

That lack of concern for hurting others was also borne out elsewhere. Even if you don’t trust the vaccines and think this should be your choice, that’s not necessarily the same as believing getting one wouldn’t be good for others. But very few unvaccinated people indicate they feel such responsibility. Asked whether they believed remaining unvaccinated is hurting the country, just 13 percent agreed that it did. Fully 87 percent suggested it had no real impact. »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ated-among-us/

[Scott G.]

[snip] This is why I find it strange that the religious community has a high percentage opposed to masking and vaccinations. [snip]

The religious were presumably praying for G-D to help them, so he sent several vaccines right quick,
but some of the faithful have refused delivery.

An Ark was built and offered to the believers, yet they refuse to use it.

[classtimesailer]

I don't think it has been proven that vaxers don't spread the virus. The data shows vaxers are less likely to experience serious symptoms.

Big pharma cannot be trusted.

Bill Gates is a big player in this new normal and therefore I am suspicious of his motives. He was welcomed into the robber Barron club and when he and the Rockefellers team up, me and mine will be the losers. Guaranteed.

[beeatnik]

I don't think it has been proven that vaxers don't spread the virus. The data shows vaxers are less likely to experience serious symptoms.

Big pharma cannot be trusted.

These are the most reasonable statements made by the LA County Department of Public Health since the start of the Pandemic:

In K-12 school settings countywide, between August 15 and September 13, 7,995 student cases and 1,193 staff cases were reported, with the vast majority occurring at LAUSD, which tests everyone weekly. With more than 1.5 million students and 175,000 staff countywide (by last year’s counts), 0.5% of the student body and 0.7% of staff have become infected since school districts reopened. This is slightly higher than the 0.4% rate of infection experienced overall in the County. Given the massive testing of asymptomatic individuals at schools, this very low rate of infection affirms the safety provided to students and staff at schools.

Close contacts that are not fully vaccinated, are subject to quarantine for up to 10 days after exposure to a case. Between August 15 and September 13, 15,655 student contacts and 1,056 staff contacts have been reported, with an additional 22,650 close contacts of unknown status reported, most of them suspected to be students. In total, nearly 2% of all staff and students countywide have been identified as a close contact of a case. Data to date indicates that very few of the identified close contacts have subsequently tested positive. As of last week, among the almost 30,000 people quarantined, 63 tested positive; this amounts to an overall secondary attack rate of 0.2%.

8000 students and 1200 staff testing positive since the start of the school year. These 9200 infections appear to have resulted in 63 secondary attacks/infections in an unvaccinated student population of 30000 (only unvaccinated students quarantine in LA Co). The LA County press release won't say it but the likely conclusions are that a large percentage of the 8000 Covid + students were infected by fully vaccinated parents or household members as LA has a 70% fully vaxxed rate for adults. Oh, and schools aren't drivers of transmission.

http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/phc....cfm?prid=3385

[vertical_doug]

I would love to know where this anti-mask, anti-vac opinions come from. And not just from the tin foil hat nut cases. Can anyone tell me? I was riding with one of my friends and we were chatting as we were going by the orchards in Berrien County, Michigan. He said he heard on NPR that one big source that promotes anti-vaccinations comes from the companies to make immunity boosting products. Anyway that is what i heard on a bike ride.
.

TE]

Dr Joseph Mercola from Cape Floral, Florida. July 24, the NYTimes ran an article on him. If you have a NYTimes, subscription, its easy to search. If not, PM me and I will send you a PDF of the article back.

I blame the internet and facebook. The WSJ ran a series of articles on the facebook algorithms. Facebook knows a lot more about the destructive power of their algorithms. At best, you get a huge confirmation bias in information that comes to you. It goes downhill from there. I think article 3 of the series dealt with how Facebook knew the mental health issues Instagram was causing young teenage women in particular, yet ignored it. It is worth a read.

As the joke goes, I am glad the polio and measles vaccines came before the internet.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fac...es-11631713039 (pay wall sorry)

[htwoopup]

I don't think it has been proven that vaxers don't spread the virus. The data shows vaxers are less likely to experience serious symptoms.

Big pharma cannot be trusted.

Bill Gates is a big player in this new normal and therefore I am suspicious of his motives. He was welcomed into the robber Barron club and when he and the Rockefellers team up, me and mine will be the losers. Guaranteed.

It has been proven (and you acknowledge) that vaccination lowers severity.

Logically, the concept of vaccine not limiting spread (even if it is true) is not relevant to the moral and ethical reasons to get vaxed as a society/ civilization member.

And this moral imperative goes beyond the scientific reasons of preventing a more ready « pool » of potential victims to create evermore variants.

Let us say you are injured in a cycling accident and you are rushed to the ER and can’t get in as quickly as is medically necessary due to overcrowding. Or even worse, you need ICU care. Or you have a brain aneurysm or some equally highly time sensitive medical condition…

This is not hypothetical. It is real world in many places now from the Northern half of Idaho to Anchorage and so on.

And, it is solely because of a selfish response to the request that all get vaccinated.

And to @beeatnik’s post above about LA County schools…the data point missing from that (which might not be statistically fair to combine with it but I will to show the potential danger) is that there is also a recent study that showed that of those children who were sick enough with covid to be hospitalized and those who needed ICU treatment.

« CONCLUSIONS: Among children and adolescents presenting to US children’s hospital EDs with COVID-19, 20% were hospitalized; of these, 21% received care in the ICU. Older children and adolescents had a lower risk for hospitalization but more severe illness when hospitalized. There were differences in disease severity by race and ethnicity and the presence of selected comorbidities. These factors should be taken into consideration when prioritizing mitigation and vaccination strategies.« 

(https://www.journalofhospitalmedicin...ty-us-children)

That is why I would say I can’t understand the logic of someone who loves children (parents and teachers for instance) and is around them all the time who will not get vaccinated and claims they want to do the right thing for the child.

[classtimesailer]

So, was all that ^ to suggest that we get jabbed so we don't potentially occupy a hospital bed that a more deserving person should get?
(I'm vaxed and I teach H.S. in LAUSD.)

[Drew]

TE]

Dr Joseph Mercola from Cape Floral, Florida. July 24, the NYTimes ran an article on him. If you have a NYTimes, subscription, its easy to search. If not, PM me and I will send you a PDF of the article back.

I blame the internet and facebook. The WSJ ran a series of articles on the facebook algorithms. Facebook knows a lot more about the destructive power of their algorithms. At best, you get a huge confirmation bias in information that comes to you. It goes downhill from there. I think article 3 of the series dealt with how Facebook knew the mental health issues Instagram was causing young teenage women in particular, yet ignored it. It is worth a read.

As the joke goes, I am glad the polio and measles vaccines came before the internet.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fac...es-11631713039 (pay wall sorry)

Facebook and Instagram are in the 201x years, what smoking was in the 195x through 197x years… addictive, destructive, the pushers know it, and they are profiting massively. What stops them? Two things: better (or any) parenting, and ideally some kind of regulation… but I don’t see the latter happening.

It is maddening when I go to any event with people - even out to dinner with my wife - and 50% of the people there have their heads buried in their phones.

How do we fix this?

[beeatnik]

Would this woman still be alive if she had known breakthroughs are not rare and fully vaccinated persons can be highly infectious?

In her obituary, a family says a mother's Covid-19 death could have been prevented if more people were vaccinated

"Candace Cay (Kruger) Ayers, 66, of Springfield, passed away on September 3, 2021, at St. John's Hospital in Springfield, IL. She was preceded in death by more than 4,531,799 others infected with Covid-19. She was vaccinated but was infected by others who chose not to be. The cost was her life."

Marc Ayers believes his mother was infected when she visited Mississippi, where vaccination rates remain among the lowest in the nation. Only 42% of Mississippi's population was fully vaccinated by mid-September, according to the state's health department.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/us/il...bit/index.html

And how did the family’s perception of the vaccination rates in Mississippi change when uptake has always been low?

Full vaccination gave relatives confidence

Because Candace had an underlying condition, her family was hesitant for her to leave town.

"My mother had severe rheumatoid arthritis. We were always the most concerned about her getting it because she was immunocompromised," Ayers said. "We were wrestling with whether they should have traveled.

"But things were looking so good, and with them being fully vaccinated, we just didn't have any thoughts of them going to Mississippi. The Delta variant was just hitting the radar. Breakthrough cases were rare at that point. Our worst nightmare came true."

[bigbill]

My wife is the example of a vaccinated person who had a breakthrough case of Covid. She was ill starting Tuesday night, tested positive on Wednesday morning, spent a few days sick in bed with what felt like a really bad cold with extra fatigue, and today is up and about feeling great although with some fatigue. She'll test again on Monday although it may be too soon to get a negative. She never had any symptoms severe enough to warrant a trip to the ER. Mohave County is experiencing some of the highest Covid death rates in the state; 97% of the deaths were unvaccinated folks. I don't know how the data can be any more clear.

[Saab2000]

A former colleague from a previous flying job died of COVID yesterday. He was a fairly senior captain at this company but only 51 and leaves a family behind. He was opposed to the vaccine from what I’ve been told. I flew with him several times and enjoyed working with him.

Went to the hospital in Portland, OR on a layover on July 31. This means he likely had it for several days and had been flying with it and spreading it. Spent over a month with a ventilator.

My industry is full of hesitant people who are very vocal. I hope this case will serve as a reminder that it’s the best way forward to get this vaccine.

He was the first person I personally knew who has passed away from the virus.