What's the appropriate penalty for hitting/killing kids at a school bus stop?

[Doug Fattic]

Near me in northern Indiana, in the early morning in 2018, a school bus was stopped on a busy road with its flashing lights while waiting for an older 9 year old sister to take her 6 year old twin siblings across the road. Sadly a young mother plowed into the 3 with her car killing them and badly injuring a 4th. Somehow she didn't recognize the situation and didn't stop. She has been serving a 4 year jail sentence and was just denied early release. My question is what is an appropriate sentence for her mistake? She wasn't effected by alcohol or drugs. She immediately stopped after the accident and was cooperative with the police.

There are lots of angles to this story. The school bus no longer stops on a busy road. They awarded the mom a 3.5 million dollar settlement realizing that a bus stop on a busy road was part of the problem. The mom wants the driver to be in jail as long as possible. The driver was a young mom too so putting her in jail punishes her kids as well. What is the purpose of jail time anyway? I'm curious what others think. In letters to the editor in the South Bend Tribune afterwards were lots of argument for what was the right punishment.

Here is a link to the latest on this story: https://www.southbendtribune.com/sto...sh/8797626002/

[roseyscot]

My kids used to get on their bus at a busy road where cars travel 40+ MPH (speed limit 35). Thankfully, our town does not require kids to cross the street, so there was never a risk of them getting hit while trying to cross. That being said, I would see at least one car a week fly by the bus while it was stopped with the stop sign out. Sometimes a minivan, sometimes a 2 door, sometimes a work truck.

If her sentence is 4 years, that seems pretty reasonable to uphold. I might be sympathetic if she had a 40 year sentence. Also, I suspect she has a pretty comfortable jail situation where she's not worried for her own life every night and gets visitation with her kids? The parents who lost their kids will never get to visit them again. I'm sure 4 years in their eyes is not even enough.

* Read the article - she already got 6 months reduced and it sounds like the sentence was back dated to 2018 even though her conviction was in 2019. So at worst, she's doing 3.5 years in jail (unclear whether she was in jail between the accident date and the verdict so maybe even less than 3.5 of actual jail time)

[robin3mj]

Near me in northern Indiana, in the early morning in 2018, a school bus was stopped on a busy road with its flashing lights while waiting for an older 9 year old sister to take her 6 year old twin siblings across the road. Sadly a young mother plowed into the 3 with her car killing them and badly injuring a 4th. Somehow she didn't recognize the situation and didn't stop. She has been serving a 4 year jail sentence and was just denied early release. My question is what is an appropriate sentence for her mistake? She wasn't effected by alcohol or drugs. She immediately stopped after the accident and was cooperative with the police.

There are lots of angles to this story. The school bus no longer stops on a busy road. They awarded the mom a 3.5 million dollar settlement realizing that a bus stop on a busy road was part of the problem. The mom wants the driver to be in jail as long as possible. The driver was a young mom too so putting her in jail punishes her kids as well. What is the purpose of jail time anyway? I'm curious what others think. In letters to the editor in the South Bend Tribune afterwards were lots of argument for what was the right punishment.

Here is a link to the latest on this story: https://www.southbendtribune.com/sto...sh/8797626002/

I am not sympathetic to the driver in this situation.
Stopping for a school bus is taught early and often in order to get a drivers license. If you forget that, or you're that unaware of your surroundings that you'd do something like this, you deserve to be treated like someone who has no regard for the safety of others.

I was nearly run over by a few high school kids who drove a minivan right through a stopped bus' zone a couple years ago; was thankful mainly that it happened after my young kids were safely on the bus and that I look both ways regardless of the situation. But for a kid within a year or two of having taken his written and road test to have forgotten or ignored the rule already is inexcusable.

[gregl]

This is one of those situations where there are no "good" answers. No amount of jail time will bring back the dead children, or help heal the injured child. The linked news story does not provide much detail into the collision. It appears that there were no grievous details uncovered during the investigation (e.g., distracted driving or DUI). The driver simply didn't pay sufficient attention and four children (and their families) will forever pay the price. If the convicted driver is unlikely to repeat the offense and her sentence is in accordance with state law, then justice is likely served. The only item that stuck out to me in the linked story: "Shepherd also completed a Bible study course while in prison, which reduced six months from the sentence." This is IMO a flagrant violation of the principle of separation of church and state. Completion of a religious class should have zero impact on the duration of her sentence.

Greg

[bigbill]

When I lived in NE Texas, a driver, oblivious to the stopped school bus with flashing red lights and a stop sign, saw it at the last second and swerved right striking several kids getting off the bus. No deaths but some severe injuries. The driver immediately stopped but stayed inside his vehicle to avoid parents who wanted to kill him. The police quickly hauled him away for his own safety. I believe he plead on multiple felonies and did some prison time.

A key part of the OP is having kids cross a busy street. I would hope that is an exception to standard ways of choosing bus stops. If I leave 5 minutes later than normal, I have to stop for several buses in my neighborhood and they all pick up kids from the right side of the road.

[j44ke]

I slowed and stopped for a school bus in the opposite lane at the appropriate distance from the front of the bus - which was about a couple car lengths. The guy in the car behind me sat there for a few seconds, then honked his horn. Then honked it again. Then stomped the gas, swerved out around and back in front of me, then roared past the school bus. Lights on the school bus were flashing the whole time, sign out, etc. School bus driver must have anticipated something, because she held the kids on the bus and didn't open the door until the idiot was gone.

I have no idea what that driver was thinking. All signs were readily apparent.

[Doug Fattic]

To me this is a very sad story and like Greg observed there are no good answers. The way I understand it, it didn't register with the driver that she had to stop even though the bus signals were being displayed. Of course she should have known to stop but other signals like being on a major heavily traveled highway (instead of in a more suburban area) doesn't make one prepared to look out for a stopped school bus. If I remember right it was stopped near a curve so she had less time to realize it was a stopped school bus.

I'm also influenced by the attitude of the mother whose loss must be terrific. Even now she wants everyone to recognize the tragedy of her loss but is unwilling to have any sympathy for the driver and her kids and family. She wants to driver to suffer. Even though it was the driver's mistake, her life as well as her kids and husband is forever changed for the worse.

It brings up the purpose or value of prison time. Will being in jail deter others from ignoring school bus signs? Must she suffer because others have suffered from her actions. Where does mercy fit into justice?

[Clyde]

Some people should have their driving privileges revoked for life. And maybe voting as well. Living with a felony on your record accomplishes #2 . Anyone convicted of vehicular manslaughter should probably be walking/riding a bike/taking public or otherwise transportation for the rest of their life.

[Saab2000]

The crossing of the street is the issue. These busses are all over where I live and yeah, there have been some awkward situations, like on a divided road. What do we do when there’s a divider? I honestly do not know. These bus stops should probably be planned off of busy streets and designed to avoid having kids cross the road. Too many things can go wrong even with well-intentioned drivers.

As to the situation in the OP, it sounds as if it was tragic accident. Locking the driver up for life or an excessively long time is revenge, not justice.

[Sascha Roszak]

A horrible situation, I can only imagine what it would feel like for both sides. The loss of a child (I recently experienced this) and to also have taken the life of another unintentionally are both unfathomable.

If I was the person in this situation who had caused or taken the life I would think 4 years is pretty insignificant compared to the life time of loss the other parents and family members have to endure.

[roseyscot]

The crossing of the street is the issue. These busses are all over where I live and yeah, there have been some awkward situations, like on a divided road. What do we do when there’s a divider? I honestly do not know. These bus stops should probably be planned off of busy streets and designed to avoid having kids cross the road. Too many things can go wrong even with well-intentioned drivers.

As to the situation in the OP, it sounds as if it was tragic accident. Locking the driver up for life or an excessively long time is revenge, not justice.

Read the article. It wasn't a life sentence or a long time. It was 4 years, 6 months wiped off cuz she read the Bible, and likely some preliminary "time served" since she wasn't sentenced until 2019 and was originally set for release in 2022.

@Jorn - I know exactly what that driver behind you was thinking - "ME ME ME ME ME ME" Like most of our society - ME first; everyone else too, but only if it's convenient for ME.

[bcm119]

Unless the driver did it intentionally, I don't understand the purpose of the jail time. What problem does it solve beyond satisfying the family's very primitive instinct for revenge? I don't think the justice system should be an instrument for our most primordial desires, but that's what it is.

[j44ke]

Unless the driver did it intentionally, I don't understand the purpose of the jail time. What problem does it solve beyond satisfying the family's very primitive instinct for revenge? I don't think the justice system should be an instrument for our most primordial desires, but that's what it is.

I think jail time is not irregular in situations where failure to abide by safety regulations results in a fatality. Culpability is determined by a jury trial and sentencing is the result of a conviction by that jury, so I think there is the possibility to ascertain guilt fairly even in what might not be an intentional act.

[Too Tall]

I have nothing to add, it's been said. What I can say is that I drove school bus for camp kids two summers and part time during college. During college I made two runs / day and one load was special needs.

It is SOP to position the bus if at all possible so the ass end is in one lane and the nose is crowding the center line or lane. I'd ALWAYS exit the bus and count the kids in and out dot period unless it was a single family home drop off at the curb.

Some fault will be perceived and some is real. Regardless, the driver will spend her entire life paying for the incalculable loss if lives not lived. There is no good answer yo.

[bigbill]

I slowed and stopped for a school bus in the opposite lane at the appropriate distance from the front of the bus - which was about a couple car lengths. The guy in the car behind me sat there for a few seconds, then honked his horn. Then honked it again. Then stomped the gas, swerved out around and back in front of me, then roared past the school bus. Lights on the school bus were flashing the whole time, sign out, etc. School bus driver must have anticipated something, because she held the kids on the bus and didn't open the door until the idiot was gone.

I have no idea what that driver was thinking. All signs were readily apparent.

The police in Paris, TX would often have a police car in front of the bus, out of sight of cars behind. If someone came around the stopped bus, the police would block the road and issue a ginormous fine to the driver, somewhere north of $1000. That seemed to be a good deterrent.

[Peter Polack]

... like on a divided road. What do we do when there’s a divider? I honestly do not know...

In most states, such as Minnesota, if you are on the opposite side of a divided road, you do not have to stop.

@Jorn - I know exactly what that driver behind you was thinking - "ME ME ME ME ME ME" Like most of our society - ME first; everyone else too, but only if it's convenient for ME.

Many of the newer buses are equipped with cameras that track vehicles while the bus is stopped. Violators are captured on video and ticketed. Profits are split between the camera company and the bus company. It's kind of a shady agreement, but it works.

As for is the sentence appropriate. Yeah, I think so. Assuming no prior criminal history, a long sentence would accomplish nothing, but declining the early release would give the impression of stern justice despite the program permitting early release. When I read, "Shepherd has said she saw something (empahsis mine) in the road, but didn’t realize it was a bus until it was too late." I question why she she was unable to determine in time what she saw was a bus. If I showed you flash cards of various vehicles, I'm pretty sure you could recognize them quickly. I think the judge knew the story was B.S. sentenced accordingly.

[choke]

That's not anywhere near long enough IMO. I would say that at a minimum the sentence should be as long as it would take the child to graduate, so in this particular case it would be 12 years since 6 year olds were killed.

Some people should have their driving privileges revoked for life.

I agree and I think it should apply in this case. Our society is far too quick to dismiss incidents with cars as 'accidents' when an accident is rare. Most incidents involving cars are caused by the driver's inattention, distraction, etc. and thus the driver should be held responsible.

And maybe voting as well. Living with a felony on your record accomplishes #2

.A felony conviction does not automatically mean that an individual can no longer vote. Voting rules are set by the states so there are a number of different situations with regard to voting by felons. There are even a couple of states where felons can vote while in prison. https://felonvoting.procon.org/state-felon-voting-laws/

[Nomadmax]

Loss of driving privileges for LIFE with 25 years in prison (straight time, no probation or parole) on the shelf if caught behind the wheel of a car under any circumstance. In this society, that's as good as prison. Some may feel that "for life" is harsh but that's exactly how long the parents of the kids killed and injured have to live with it.