Nakiri (Japanese Vegetable Knife)

[jclay]

During the latter part of my year or so with a seriously sharp Masakane gyuto (Japanese style chef) knife the rationale behind the Japanese nakiri gradually became apparent.

Certainly I could finish out my tenure on Earth with only my chef knife but having transitioned to nearly vegan, and chopping lots and lots of veg, the long length and razor sharp tip of the chef has become....a bit of a hindrance and safety concern; so I splashed out on this: https://bernalcutlery.com/collection...36251612872856

The Masakane is SK steel. I'm not a fan of the small handle of this particular knife but the simple, pretty thin mono-steel, SK blade takes and holds a razor edge fabulously. It doesn't have the pedigree of the hand forged knives made of Hitachi "white" and "blue" steels sandwiched between softer steels but it does the job in outstanding fashion.

The Kaji-bei nakiri is iron clad white steel (Shirogami 2). The shorter length and blunt end will be very nice, easier and less dangerous to use for mass veg chopping. Obviously it will take and hold and serious edge. I considered waiting for a blue steel (Aogami 1 or 2) version to be restocked since it's supposed to give up a gnat's ass of sharpness for a bit more resistance to wear; but up in the knife steel stratosphere occupied by all of these steels I decided that for me there couldn't be a difference that made a difference.

It's on the way; user report later, but I can tell you that the thought of being able to whack lots of veg without having to be so extremely mindful of length and sharp tip is reassuring.

[jdanton]

I have this guy:

https://www.korin.com/HKR-TDNA-165_2...%253Aj1o3hyj90

I bought a much cheaper Nakiri and immediately loved the shape, but it didn't do a great job of holding an edge (was a like $50 Tojiro). It has mostly become my go to knife, even for some light protein work. Obviously the Gyuto is better if I'm butchering something, but the Nakiri is so easy to use. Enjoy!! It's also really quick to sharpen without a taper.

[jclay]

I have this guy:

https://www.korin.com/HKR-TDNA-165_2...%253Aj1o3hyj90

I bought a much cheaper Nakiri and immediately loved the shape, but it didn't do a great job of holding an edge (was a like $50 Tojiro). It has mostly become my go to knife, even for some light protein work. Obviously the Gyuto is better if I'm butchering something, but the Nakiri is so easy to use. Enjoy!! It's also really quick to sharpen without a taper.

The knife arrived this week, I've used it just a little bit but the shape and size are much better for chopping veg.; the risk of poking or cutting myself is vastly reduced and it's just easier to use for that. As noted earlier, I could finish my tenure on Earth with the Chef (+ bread + paring) so this is a bit of a First World indulgence but I have to say that it's far nicer to use for most of what I do than the Chef is.

It's funny; all of us live our own personal prototype; and prototypes are never the end stage of evolution, personal or otherwise. So, as an "if I knew then what I know now" sort of comment, which can be applied to everything....but here concerning kitchen knives....a chef, nakiri, bread, paring, long-skinny slicing knife and maybe a cleaver, but that'd be it. No mas. I am increasingly moving into the less is more lane.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Cool! I hope you get along really well with it.

I've only tried one nakiri (Masakage Shimo), but I knew straight away that knife was not for me and moved it along. I didn't like that particular knife, but it was also useful in helping me realize that a standard nakiri is not a knife that is natural or ideal for me. Like you, or anyone else, I could get by just fine with a knife or two but I do enjoy using different knives. While I mainly use carbon steel knives these days I really love my stainless CCK 1812 when I've got to mow through a bunch of veg prep. It's very laser-ish and the overall size is so great for scooping and moving product from the board elsewhere.

I also really like a longer and flatter bunka for veg prep (and overall general purpose stuff).

[jclay]

After a couple of weeks I can say I'm glad I got the Nakri. I'd been aware of blunt nose Japanese kitchen knives but had never used one until not too many months ago when I used one while visiting an old friend. If curious and you get the same sort of opportunity to try one out, give it a whirl; I made dinner that night after sharpening Robert's gaggle of dull knives. His shorter, smaller Henckels Western version was a pleasure to use and got me interested.

The one I got and most of the ones I see advertised are 165mm but I also see a few longer and some 135mm examples. I might go for 135mm (certainly not longer) if I were to do it over again; there doesn't need to be much push or pull of the edge and the shorter version would be more easily maneuvered. The one at my friend's place was in the 135mm range and it's daintier size was kinda nice. Not sure, and not a big deal, but something to be aware of and consider particularly if you can test drive different lengths.

[9tubes]

I haven't tried a nikiri shape. Generally I like gyutos that are a little bit flatter and a nikiri goes to the obvious logical the extreme of this concept. I might have to try one just to see but so far I've thought that it would be too flat. Your thoughts?

I haven't been too concerned about poking myself with the point of a gyuto. Like most of us I have cut myself before, and one of the side effects of great knives is the focus that comes from holding a 10 inch razor blade and knowing what it can do.

[COVRTDESIGN]

I adore all of my nakiri's and I always highly recommend Takeda.
https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/takada-no-hamono
The best knives, unbelievably sharp and super easy to keep sharp, and just gorgeous. Well worth the investments.

[jclay]

I haven't tried a nikiri shape. Generally I like gyutos that are a little bit flatter and a nikiri goes to the obvious logical the extreme of this concept. I might have to try one just to see but so far I've thought that it would be too flat. Your thoughts?

I haven't been too concerned about poking myself with the point of a gyuto. Like most of us I have cut myself before, and one of the side effects of great knives is the focus that comes from holding a 10 inch razor blade and knowing what it can do.

The nakiri isn't flat, as in a straight line between two points; it has a very gentle curve that appears uniform until near the blunt end where the radius of curvature starts to decrease. I guess that a tiny bit rocking motion just sort of happens; it's not too shallow a curve for me; I quite like it. My guyto is MOL as sharp but I prefer the nakiri for nearly everything I do; well, everything of late. I'm very close to zero meat, poultry, whatever; eggs and a little bit of fish, yes.

[j44ke]

If you want to screw around with the shape of a Nakiri without a $500 investment, I can heartily recommend the Kyocera ceramics. They aren't totally cheap (for that, go with a PureKomachi you can easily make crazy sharp) but they are great to cut with, especially on vegetables.

[jclay]

If you want to screw around with the shape of a Nakiri without a $500 investment, I can heartily recommend the Kyocera ceramics. They aren't totally cheap (for that, go with a PureKomachi you can easily make crazy sharp) but they are great to cut with, especially on vegetables.

My iron clad laminated shirogami 2 steel was $74 and the SK mono-steel gyuto about the same; one does not need to spend hundreds of $ to get seriously sharp/good kitchen knives. Bernal has a modestly high carbon steel nakiri for $55 and I expect that a decent high carbon steel example can be found for even less at an Asian housewares store.

This link is to info on Hitachi shirogami 2 but the site has information on lots of relevant steels. Mine came quite sharp but not polished; I think it would benefit from that but I haven't gotten around to it. These things are very seriously sharp even when not as sharp as they can be.

All that said....while I'm glad to have these two it really is kind of funny; I needed to cut a peach the other day so I used my old, stainless Lamson 650 chef; didn't want to risk chipping a fancy steel edge on a peach pit. I don't keep it as sharp as it could be but it got the job done just fine. There's something to be said for rough'n tumble tools that don't need to be babied.

I don't know much about ceramics but it sounds like chipping can be a problem in more ways than one.

[j44ke]

We've had a ceramic knife for over 10 years and no problems with regular use. They discolor a bit with some foods, so I suspect that's why they now have the black color option.

[fastupslowdown]

I have a Wustoff 8 inch knife I use for everything. Why is the Nakiri better for vegetables? -Mike G

[Clyde]

Thx Jorn just popped for one of those $35 specials. Will report on its functionality. And I could probably do with one knife as well, I just like taking care of, and sharpening those things. And, my romance with German steel is over after having a few Japanese knives.

[jclay]

I have a Wustoff 8 inch knife I use for everything. Why is the Nakiri better for vegetables? -Mike G

For me: I hold some items by thumb and forefinger, and then slip the tip of the knife underneath the web of my hand, say when quartering a small, red potato or similr. The pointy end of a chef can poke me if I miss; the blunt end of the nakiri won't. I also like indexing (or almost) the broad rectangle of the nakiri off of my forefinger when holding veg in a more conventional manner; I find the compact length to be convenient and easy to handle as well.

I view this as extravagant, for me anyway, but I do feel a bit more confident that I won't pierce myself with the nakiri; but as earlier, I could easily finish life with a decent stainless chef.

Folks who are far more sophisticated than I at cutting things probably have other reasons.

[j44ke]

I like the stability of the cut. The broad flat ended blade cuts and stays straighter more easily in something that is a bit of a tough cut. Carrots for example. Or a kabocha squash. And chopping stuff too. Whack whack whack. Think of it as a cleaver for vegetables.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I adore all of my nakiri's and I always highly recommend Takeda.
https://carbonknifeco.com/collections/takada-no-hamono
The best knives, unbelievably sharp and super easy to keep sharp, and just gorgeous. Well worth the investments.

You wrote Takeda, but linked Takada. I suspect you are recommending the latter.

[COVRTDESIGN]

You wrote Takeda, but linked Takada. I suspect you are recommending the latter.

That is correct. One day we will get an edit button on here. ha.

Any knife maker on that site is amazing. Plus Carbon Knife is run by some good friends here in Denver!

[jclay]

Knife Sharpening

What do you folks use for magnification and inspection of your work? I use a pair of 3 or 4x reading glasses over my bifocals. That goes into the “plus” column but I’d like something quite a bit more powerful, maybe with a light.

Folks are all over the place on the knife forums; I’m not interested in gratuitous magnification but I’d like enough be able to tell if I’ve achieved my goal of a proper apex (rather than a truncated one) after each grit, before going to the next. One guy mentioned his aversion to holding the knife as close to his eyes as a loup would require; I never thought of that (assume I’d still be wearing my glasses) and it made me wonder about magnifying devices that sit on a table, over the knife.

I also saw some nifty bevel gauges. I don’t think I want one that’s intended to be used as a crutch on the stone, but one that I can slip over the blade, at various points, and see if I’m in the ballpark with my bevel angles.

Any suggestions?

My waterstones are 1000, 4000, 8000. I often ignore the 8000 but largely bc a good 1000 or 4000 finish is better than wrecking it with a third at-bat on the 8k; it just depends on how lucky I feel. I need to get a rough stone to make chip removal and re-profiling quicker; something in the 300, 400 range I think? And a 2000 seems maybe a useful addition to speed things along. I flatten them with wet/dry paper on my bicycle building surface plate. I’m not super-duper at this but I manage to get there...sometimes reasonably quickly, sometimes it’s a long journey; but being able to see the edge under magnification a lot better than I can now, and do quick evaluations of the bevel angle, will have to be helpful

[ColonelJLloyd]

I have a jeweler's loupe that came with a 7-8 piece sharpening kit from CKTG. For me, I agree that there could be better options.

I will say that I've found a little felt block super useful for removing burrs. And a good leather strop (larger is better) has been a revelation. I have a 3x11 steel plate with a couple kangaroo leather strops with magnetic backs. There are much cheaper solutions for sure and even a flat block of wood, newspapers, denim, etc can be useful.

I started with a 140 diamond plate (for flattening and haven't needed to repair knives yet), 1000 Arashiyama, and 6000 Arashiyama. I wanted something in between and the Shapton Glass 2000 was recommended. Some knives I stop at 2000. Again, finishing a knife on a strop or stropping to realign the edge (as opposed to a honing rod) is immensely satisfying.

Cerax makes a 280/1500 combo stone which might be useful to you. I swear I thought they made a 340/2000-2500 combo too but I'm not seeing it. ~400 grit stones seem to be popular. Apparently in those medium grits like 2000-3000 different stones cut much different than you would expect from the grit number so it's helpful to ask folks who have used them.