Warfare has changed

[bigbill]

With the sabotage of Nordstream 1 and 2, attacks on infrastructure are a bloodless assault that can drive an economy to its knees. My favorite blog has a great article this morning.

http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/20...sloc-iloc.html

[claritycycler]

Enlightening and scary.

[fastupslowdown]

Russia has been doing this for years. Now its Nordstream cables , before it was communication cables. Nothing new -Mike G

[bigbill]

Russia has been doing this for years. Now its Nordstream cables , before it was communication cables. Nothing new -Mike G

The pipelines that would deliver natural gas to Germany were sabotaged. This is a new development and is meant to turn the people of Europe against supporting Ukraine. Between the annexation of Ukrainian territory, the threat of using nuclear weapons, and now the prospect of Europeans being unable to afford to keep warm this winter, Putin is challenging the resolve of the west to help Ukraine.

The threat to underwater cables is real as well, but not yet realized. https://www.politico.eu/article/ever...ternet-cables/

[AngryScientist]

"Little ducks, there's trouble in Russia"

[bigbill]

"Little ducks, there's trouble in Russia"

Hated that movie. I had transferred off a Trident submarine a few years before Crimson Tide came out. If submarine movies were true to life, no one would see them.

[AngryScientist]

If submarine movies were true to life, no one would see them.

Ha, aint that the truth. Turns out sub life is rarely edge of your seat excitement :)

[mg2ride]

Been so long since I read it I don't remember any details but Blindman's Bluff is a great book that talks about some USA espionage on Russian underwater comms cables.

[jclay]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022...e-attacks.html

https://tomdispatch.com/integrity-optional/

[bigbill]

Been so long since I read it I don't remember any details but Blindman's Bluff is a great book that talks about some USA espionage on Russian underwater comms cables.

I seem to recall a few details, and the purpose of the underwater cable tapping was to break Soviet codes. The Soviets and later Russians felt confident in their cables between mainland Russia and the Kamchatka Peninsula, confident enough to send messages uncoded. There was never any intention to damage or destroy the cables, which would end the program. Much of the book takes place in the Sea of Okhotsk, which requires passage through the Kuril Islands and territorial waters of Russia. The Russians "own" the Sea of Okhotsk, US submarine presence would be akin to the Russians operating a submarine in the Puget Sound or Chesapeake.

[Scott G.]

Britain pioneered cutting sea bed cables back in the World War.

From the Beeb in 2017.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42367551

[bigbill]

It's good that Britain pioneered cutting cables in World War One. The world has changed since some telegraph and radio lines were cut.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/techn...ubject-concern

If you want to take down a nation, remove its banking and communications.

[rwsaunders]

Start with the power grid, a key power generation plant or two and everything else eventually grinds to a halt…communications, water filtration/distribution, fuel supplies and food distribution.

[bigbill]

Start with the power grid, a key power generation plant or two and everything else eventually grinds to a halt…communications, water filtration/distribution, fuel supplies and food distribution.

One of the deep discussion on deployment... To wreck the world economy, start with taking out the east coast power grid. Take down Wall Street, DC, and the communication hubs of New York and Atlanta.

[rwsaunders]

One of the deep discussion on deployment... To wreck the world economy, start with taking out the east coast power grid. Take down Wall Street, DC, and the communication hubs of New York and Atlanta.

We had a project in school (back in the Middle Ages it seems now…designing the structural steel in a LNG storage tank), where we were given the location of all of the LNG storage tanks at the Henry Hub in SW Louisiana and made assumptions of what it would take to rupture both an empty and a full tank. It didn’t take long for us to ask the question…”Professor, if one tank explodes, wouldn’t it start some sort of chain reaction?”, as the tanks looked to be pretty close to each other.

https://rbnenergy.com/henry-the-hub-...-gas-benchmark

[bigbill]

We had a project in school (back in the Middle Ages it seems now…designing the structural steel in a LNG storage tank), where we were given the location of all of the LNG storage tanks at the Henry Hub in SW Louisiana and made assumptions of what it would take to rupture both an empty and a full tank. It didn’t take long for us to ask the question…”Professor, if one tank explodes, wouldn’t it start some sort of chain reaction?”, as the tanks looked to be pretty close to each other.

https://rbnenergy.com/henry-the-hub-...-gas-benchmark

Here's a no-shitter, I was one of the officers of the deck on the carrier TR during OIF. We were operating between Cyprus and Turkey which sees a lot of merchant traffic. I walked up to the bridge to take the watch and part of my routine was to use binoculars to assess the tactical situation. We were just 3000 yards from an LNG tanker. It was a large ship with three distinct "humps" that spelled out L-N-G. I called the captain and turned the ship to open up distance. They're floating bombs that would only need a shoulder-fired missile to ignite.

[j44ke]

Russia was more effective when their weapons were Facebook, the NRA and CPAC.

[Saab2000]

Here's a no-shitter, I was one of the officers of the deck on the carrier TR during OIF. We were operating between Cyprus and Turkey which sees a lot of merchant traffic. I walked up to the bridge to take the watch and part of my routine was to use binoculars to assess the tactical situation. We were just 3000 yards from an LNG tanker. It was a large ship with three distinct "humps" that spelled out L-N-G. I called the captain and turned the ship to open up distance. They're floating bombs that would only need a shoulder-fired missile to ignite.

What would you consider an appropriate distance from such a vessel? 3000 yards is less than 2 miles.

[bigbill]

What would you consider an appropriate distance from such a vessel? 3000 yards is less than 2 miles.

No closer than 10 nautical miles. The person who had the watch before me thought LNG was a shipping line.

[vertical_doug]

No closer than 10 nautical miles. The person who had the watch before me thought LNG was a shipping line.

That person must be an admiral by now....