What happens when one fitter disagrees with another fitter (v. by 4cm)

[Bob Ross]

Your bike is my husband's size, and I've been trying to get him to upgrade for a while now

Do you have a sister?

[Triskeliongirl]

Do you have a sister?

Its actually annoying. Even his riding pals tried to get me to buy him a new bike, or at least new drivetrain, as they can't stand to listen to it when they are riding. But, he hangs with the fastest men in our club, on their pinarello princes, on his trusty trek 5500 running a 1998 Dura-ace 9 groupset (yeh, I change the parts for him when they completely fail and he lets me, but they are still Dura-ace 9, I even managed to rebuild his sti lever once even though you're not supposed to be able to do that with shimano......). I have to wash it for him too............

I found a great 2008 closeout for him on a cervelo RS w dura-ace 10 (7800), and he wouldn't let me buy it. His riding buds said I should have just done it, he would love it so much, but I don't know, he might of just gotten really mad.

I do have a sister, but she is married too...........

The good news is he loves to cycle as much as I do, he's just not very interested in the gear. And we have a grand time watching pro cycling together, although I follow it more and feed him tidbits I learn from places like this one to report to his riding buddies.

[petitelilpettit]

This is a great post for me to read, because I've been fighting some personal demons along this same line.

Sherman, set the wayback machine to 4 years ago when i was first fitted for my Serotta (the one in the classifieds). I was fitted by a fitter (now my boss) who had been doing fittings for years. He ended up setting me up pretty neutral with regards to drop and reach. Ended up going with a 60cm top tube with a 130mm stem and a Ritchey WCS Classic bar. At this time, I was starting to get a bit serious about riding. I didn't have a ton of miles under my legs, but coming from cross country and track in high school, I had a great platform to come from.

Fast forward to one year ago. I have been putting in plenty of mileage, and have caught the racing bug. My fitness is much better than what I started with. With this change, I found myself starting to change my position to be more agressive. Ended up slamming my stem, as well as getting a -17 degree stem in order to start getting my hands low enough.

Enter the Seigler. My team was offered a deal that we couldn't refused for these awesome crit bikes. Since I bought my frame after some other teammates had bought some, I asked how they had fit. After being told that they ran big, I bought a size smaller that what I thought i needed. This was the major difference: the top tube on this guy was 57.5cm, which was 2.5cm shorter than my Serotta. Ended up putting on a 130mm stem and an identical bar, starting to worry if this bike was gonna be long enough.

After using this bike for a year now, I have found that I love the ride of the shorter top tube, and I only discovered it by trying it out. I can get low enough on the bike, but the feeling I do love is when I get on my hoods and get into an aero position, I feel like I am on my TT bike. Hence, I am selling the Serotta becuase I now prefer the shorter top tube.

In regards to your original post, I'd agree with Jonathan. Your body will tell you what works for you.

My $.02

Pettit

[SteveP]

i thk the top tube length being shorter can be a very good thing...if it allows you to fully use all the hand positions on the bars.
super deep drop... a lot of guys cant reach the drops... whats the point in that?
you need to be comfortable and able to use all handlebar positions and not have bones sticking out of yr back after a 4 hr ride/

thats a fit to me.
if you can do those things...yr getting close.

[scrooge]

Not trying to hijack, but a related question (I think):
Is there a consensus on how one's back should look? I always assume straight/flat, but the fitter I saw suggested that everyone has a natural curve and you should just go with that. That's how he set me up, but seems to me I still want to go for flat...
And while I'm asking about things everyone should probably know, how about arm position? Is there an "ideal" angle for them when riding in a fairly relaxed position, or when dropping down on the hoods and hammering? Or am I playing too much into the "fit is a science" myth?

[SteveP]

i thk there are a lot of natural back curves and you cant really fight whatever yrs is.

arms loose and flexible in all positions...
like you can swing them in and out comfortably and dont clench the bars.
im not sure an angle can be named...
look at a bunch of good riders ( i mean really good.. elite guys, cat 1s pros- not the local triathlete who owns the local tt... thats a different game for another thread )

[swoop]

shoot for this.

[Vax]

shoot for this.

That bike looks too small for that cat. ATMO.

[swoop]

erase the bike and look at the cat.

[deepsix]

I don't give a lot of credence to any of the fit systems that prescribe shoulder angles within some normative range they deem to be acceptable. Most of the systems have good logic when it comes to saddle height and setback for road positioning: as they address leverage and flexibility to determine where to put you.

However, the front end of your bike is purely about your comfort. Get the bars in a position you can sustain for the duration of your rides-- period. Lower bars get you out of the wind and allow you to use your weight to corner more effectively, but if those features were important to you... you would have figured this out a long time ago on your own.

Time I spent with Todd Carver as well as people behind the BG Fit System tells me to just make the front end comfortable. Your core strength most determines where that point in space your contact spot should be. To quote someone on this forum, "Fit is proportional to fitness."

Reality is that measurements taken from your body have less to do with your fit than your core strength and preference for how to sit on the bicycle.

PS: Proprietary fitting systems are all voodoo. They are shortcuts to solutions that only experience can yield.

Take a look at the Slowtwitch (I know, I know) article by Dan Empfield about finding your ideal hip angle. He basically says that your body will gravitate to a place on the saddle when you are on the rivet (riding hard). That place on the saddle is where your pelvis should be positioned in space because it is where your body is telling you it is most effective while cranking. Voodoo debunked.

[Booger]

Take a look at the Slowtwitch (I know, I know) article by Dan Empfield about finding your ideal hip angle. He basically says that your body will gravitate to a place on the saddle when you are on the rivet (riding hard). That place on the saddle is where your pelvis should be positioned in space because it is where your body is telling you it is most effective while cranking. Voodoo debunked.

Funny you mention that. Fitter cranked up the wattage to plaid yesterday when evaluating my hip angle. Although, I think the 4th intervul was just to solidify my MMS (mean maximal suckage).

Came back 3cm today and felt good. Awkward at first, but felt much more natural after awhile. I think I'm going to stick with it. He was also right about a couple mm's of cleat position and saddle height. Millimeters, son. Blows my mind.

Either way, poor unused R3 for sale. I was way too chicken to race it anyway. I crossed the line of yesterday's crit on 23 lbs. of craigslist special, having narrowly dodged a couple 26+mph crashes. Time to reload. Custom would be great, but it's going to eat pavement at some point in its life. Another thread, for sure.

[scrooge]

shoot for this.

Thanks. I actually think that's what the person who fit me was going for--but when I see that position and picture myself in it I think I'd want to slide back in the saddle and stretch out a bit (its that round back thing that gets me--do I simply not have enough core strength to maintain this?).
And thanks for entertaining fit discussions on the webernet. It gives me something to do if nothing else.

[ssjimbo]

Most of the fit "systems" work on body measurements. Flexibility can make a huge difference. Two dudes (or dudettes) with identical measurements might be on very different bikes due to differences in flexiblity. I can't come close to touching my toes. Someone else might be able to put his hands on the floor palms down. I'm 5'9", with a 32 inseam and ride a 55 tt with a 100mm stem. I love it.

[Yodelinpol]

(yeh, I change the parts for him when they completely fail and he lets me, but they are still Dura-ace 9, I even managed to rebuild his sti lever once even though you're not supposed to be able to do that with shimano......).

Please tell me where to send my 9 speed right ultegra lever. I need it back by this weekend if possible. Thanks in advance!!!

[DOOFUS]

Do you ride a Colnago? There is definitely a lot of talk out there about fitting those with 140+ stems. Otherwise I do agree about quite a bit of talk being out there, especially with respect to Euro-pro type fits with super long stems....(ahem...see below):

are you allergic to irony?

[Catulle]

yeah I do. Go with what your body says is right. Only you can really know what works.

Jon + Noel. You're the only one who can tell where and when you're comfortable on the bicycle. Is that place where you're comfortable the best place to be to win the TdeF? That's an altogether different story.

Some "fitters" would like to place you on an ideal position, but if you're not presently fit for that position you won't be happy riding your bicycle. You'll be better off sitting where it feels nice, and in due time you'll start making adjustments that make sense and make you happy.

[ridethecliche]

It depends on you as many have already stated.

That being said, your fit can change based on how your flexibility and riding style changes.

Maybe fitter one likes to see riders more stretched out with less drop vs fitter 2 who likes to see more drop and a shorter stem.

I do have to say that a 140mm stem is wicked long.

If fitter 2 has infact fit all the people you posted, then I would mark up everything on my bike, and go get a fit from him. If I didn't like it after a month, I'd switch back.

That being said, your saying that you feel too stretched out is very telling.