Timepieces

[72gmc]

The GMT is still available new from Rolex. Well...you know...."available."

I’m guessing this is like new-Porsche available?

[dgaddis]

I’m guessing this is like new-Porsche available?

For a few years now any popular Rolex model (which the GMT is certainly one of) are out of stock everywhere, the demand exceeds the supply. So if you want one you have to get on The List and wait your turn, which could be months or years apparently.

Allegedly, from what I've seen on the web. I'm not in the market for one myself.

[NYCfixie]

I don't think you can launder goods thru Sothebys.

I assume some of the watches just came with consignment with more valuable watches with the same collector.

The green rolex, although new, is reversed. Left-Right. It looks backwards.
Some of the other ones have tiffany faces which are always sought after. There was also a Patek with Tiffany dial for sale. That was very nice.

I would not assume anything with auction houses. They are known to be unethical when it benefits them (i.e. not really checking provenance) which is not necessarily illegal.

The Green&Black/Sprite/Destro/Left-hand-drive GMT Master II is a current catalog watch and easy to get even if you do not have a connection with an Authorized Dealer
(as are some of the other newer Rolex watches in the auction).
https://www.bobswatches.com/shop?query=126720
https://www.luxurybazaar.com/product...-126720vtnr-9/

The "Tiffany stamped dial" and other vintage Rolex watches while more scarce, are easy enough to get from a vintage Rolex pre-owned dealer.
https://www.windvintage.com/
https://mentawatches.com/product-category/brands/rolex/


Even as part of a "collection of watches" why choose the more expensive "fees" of an auction house when a simple call to a pre-owned dealer will get you market price without the fees for a "current Rolex catalog" watch? And, it is rare that a person who collects vintage watches also collects the "new" stuff from the same brand.

I have sold a few "modern" and "neo-vintage" Rolex watches this way so I am talking from experience:
1) Upload or email pictures of watch to pre-owned dealer
2) Get Estimate
3) Send watch overnight via UPS or FedEx
4) Pre-owned dealer inspects watch for authenticity, checks stolen registers, and ensures watch matches original description and pictures
5) Pre-owned dealer ask for bank information and then wires funds
All this happens in less than 48 hours whereas auction houses take months to sell a watch.

The GMT is still available new from Rolex. Well...you know...."available."

Exactly, the Rolex watches I am referencing are "current catalog" pieces and very easy to get on the secondary market (if one does not have an authorized dealer connection) so the seller/consigner has chosen to sell through an auction house and make/pocket less money than if sold to (or via) a third party pre-owned (online or not) watch dealer. It makes no sense.

[vertical_doug]

What it the spread the dealer will is the spread the dealer prices in for where he estimates he can resell the watch? If he thinks he can sell at 10,000 does he offer 8,000?

[Matthew Strongin]

What it the spread the dealer will is the spread the dealer prices in for where he estimates he can resell the watch? If he thinks he can sell at 10,000 does he offer 8,000?

Second hand dealers often score watches at a price that gives them good margin through people trading up. If you have a GMT and want a Daytona, for example, sellers/traders are willing to get less value for their GMT for access to the Daytona (they cover the difference in cash). And the second hand dealer is happy with this because they probably got that Daytona in a similar manner or through some other means where they paid well below "market". Smart dealers are only doing this on pieces where they're able to, for the most part, pick up pieces at or below new watch MSRP. With the second hand craziness of the last couple years there are a lot of second hand dealers losing their shirts chasing rising secondary market prices. Each second hand dealer probably has their own margin that they target, but I can't imagine running a business, even one with low operating overhead, at 20%. As an offering to support a new product retail business, sure. But to solely trade in gray market and used watches, I'd want to average out to more than that.

[dashDustin]

I just joined this MODA WTB group and holy shit. Back in my early wrenching days, I was told "with money, anything can be done quickly" (in reference to sourcing a Dogma fork for overnight delivery). I don't think there's anything that isn't immediately attainable in that group. For the right amount of cash.

[NYCfixie]

What it the spread the dealer will is the spread the dealer prices in for where he estimates he can resell the watch? If he thinks he can sell at 10,000 does he offer 8,000?

I can't imagine running a business, even one with low operating overhead, at 20%. As an offering to support a new product retail business, sure. But to solely trade in gray market and used watches, I'd want to average out to more than that.

When I have sold Rolex watches (that I have worn and no longer want) to pre-owned dealers, it appears they turn around and list them for about 30% more. I am not sure if they sell for that much but that is what they list them for. It makes me crazy because I always offer them to friends/family at the price the dealer offered me but nobody has taken my up on it yet because I either have cheap friends/family or nobody can come up with the actual cash...I only sell for cold hard cash (or wires from pre-owned dealers).

As to other lesser brands (Seiko, Hamilton, Oris, Tissot, Tag Heur, etc.), pre-owned dealers at best will offer you 50% of original MSRP if the watch is in perfect condition otherwise they do not want it. They then sell it 70% of MSRP netting a 20% mark-up. One can sell these on eBay but after the fees and hassle of dealing with people, packing, and shipping it is rarely worth the extra few percent. With that said, I have been selling watches on eBay that pre-owned dealers do not want (quartz Alpina, used Hamilton, new San Martin, modified Seikos, etc.).

I do not care what anybody says because watches are not investments, they are luxury toys.

I am not a flipper but I also have never really made money on a Rolex if you consider the service costs. I buy them, wear them, and sometimes sell them (after owning for many many years).

1994 (new from an AD) Rolex Explorer II Polar - sold after 25 years of ownership.
2018 (new from an AD) Rolex Submariner Date - sold after 1 year of ownership, did not like the maxi case.
2019 (new from an AD) Rolex Explorer II Polar - sold after 5 years of ownership, did not like the maxi case, should have kept the one I purchased in 1994. Live and learn.

[vertical_doug]

If I am a collector selling with no need for immediate cash, sotheby's 10% commission on hammer price probably nets better to me. I also like the transparency aspect.

[vertical_doug]

What was weird to me are the modern (as-in the past 5 years) Rolex watches which are not that rare.
Why auction them when pre-owned dealers can handle that stuff for a lot less money for both buyer and seller?

And then I found these articles:
How Luxury Watches are Being Used for Money Laundering
Watches As Tools Of Money Laundering And Illicit Finance

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...for-nine-years

Why buy watches, when you can just pay a mule to bring trunkloads of cash in suitcases to dubai. You can bring any amount of cash into Dubai and declare with no issues. With lax and almost no security leaving the UK, this seems to move real money. The story of Hamas using watches to move into Lebanon is really smaller money and restricted to the failed states which are devolving to largely barter
economies.

Dubai really is turning into the dirty money center of the world.

[dgaddis]

On a lighter note.

[Matthew Strongin]

Surprised there isn't chatter on the new Tudor FXD "Cycling Edition" given this is a cycling forum. I'm clearly biased but I think it's pretty cool. I'm excited to see it in person.

[NYCfixie]

Surprised there isn't chatter on the new Tudor FXD "Cycling Edition" given this is a cycling forum. I'm clearly biased but I think it's pretty cool. I'm excited to see it in person.

I like it but my eyes are to old to read black date wheels on black dials (without my reading glasses) not to mention any chrono dial so a pass for me unfortunately.

[froze]

Surprised there isn't chatter on the new Tudor FXD "Cycling Edition" given this is a cycling forum. I'm clearly biased but I think it's pretty cool. I'm excited to see it in person.

I don't think wearing a $5,000 plus watch while riding a bike is a good idea. If you crash you could destroy that watch, especially since the case is made of carbon fiber it could easily get gouged up badly. Bad enough during a crash you get hurt, the bike is damaged that could be worth a lot, and now an expensive watch is destroyed.

If you want a cycling analog watch, Tissot makes a T-Race Cycling Chronograph quartz watch which you can buy at Jomashop for less than $200, or Tissot makes the same thing in an automatic for around $500. I think for a chronograph, you would get more accurate results with a quartz? I just wear my cheap Seiko automatic dive watch when I ride.

[dgaddis]

I don't think they really expect anyone to ride with it, it's more of a 'in celebration of the cycling team' sorta thing.

I stick to my G-Shocks when on the bike.

[dashDustin]

I'm still waiting to see this composite case. Love the piece, love snowflake hands, and the white-on-black is a winner in my book.

But that composite case material...oi. Kinda wish it'd pull a page from early 2000s and run a ti case (brushed, not Litespeed polished).

[rwsaunders]

Tudor Pro Cycling team Black Bay from last year…

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/le...ack-bay-chrono

[j44ke]

I like that they are sponsoring a cycling team, with Fabian Cancellara's involvement no less.

[dashDustin]

Need to figure out what G Shock I’m gonna get for 2024. Obviously it’s gonna be something for Nugget. I just can’t figure out what to do, and G Shock’s catalog is so large. His collar was this sorta blue splatter paint job, and his leash was like a lighter blue plaid. Blue was my color for him, so I’m thinking blue-ish. Maybe blue w/ orange…anyone seen anything that they can recall? Swear I saw a splatter series, but damn if I can find it now.

IMG_5227.jpg

[rwsaunders]

Need to figure out what G Shock I’m gonna get for 2024. Obviously it’s gonna be something for Nugget. I just can’t figure out what to do, and G Shock’s catalog is so large. His collar was this sorta blue splatter paint job, and his leash was like a lighter blue plaid. Blue was my color for him, so I’m thinking blue-ish. Maybe blue w/ orange…anyone seen anything that they can recall? Swear I saw a splatter series, but damn if I can find it now.

IMG_5227.jpg

I just ordered one these in blue/pink....here's a blue version and a blue/orange version.

https://www.casio.com/us/watches/gsh...ct.GA-100C-8A/

https://www.casio.com/us/watches/gsh...ct.GA-100L-2A/

[holliscx]

Any sleuths know what timepiece Geoff is wearing here in the fifth slide?

There's another image here but you can't see it well