irrational fear of flying

[Mabouya]

I would assume modern instrumentation would keep you out of such severe disturbances.

I'm not sure what that flight hit, but if it was this, there's no easy way for them to see/detect it ahead of time:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear-air_turbulence

[gregl]

I assume most have seen the news story of the deadly turbulence on the London>Singapore. One dead and 71 injured.

This must have been some severe turbulence. Question to the pilots in the group: How did this happen? I would assume modern instrumentation would keep you out of such severe disturbances. What went wrong?

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/world...kok/index.html

Onboard radar will detect areas of precipitation and potential turbulence associated with convective activity (https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/optim...weather-radar/). Pilots still need to interpret the radar display and make decisions on how to best avoid areas that could be dangerous. Clear Air Turbulence (CAT) associated with jet stream winds will be noted on your flight plan as areas of predicted vertical wind shear. Crews can use this data to plan cabin service and ensure pax and crew are seated and belted in when approaching potential turbulence.

In this case, at least one news source is postulating that the crew was flying in an area of rapid thunderstorm buildup (see attached FlightAware screen grab). Thunderstorms need to be avoided both laterally and vertically. Trying to go over the top of rapidly growing thunderstorms has caused multiple aircraft incidents and accidents over the years. A thunderstorm cell can climb so quickly that an aircraft cannot safely go over the top. My $0.02: the crew in this accident tried to overfly an area of rapidly growing thunderstorms, leading to the turbulence encounter. The investigative authorities will review all the aircraft and weather data as they develop their report.

Greg

[Saab2000]

I would also SPECULATE (just speculating) that they flew into a convective event. This was likely not pure clear air turbulence.

Oddly, just last week I was operating a flight from Houston to Tampa (KHOU-KTPA) and there was a report (PIREP - Pilot Report) over the Mobile area of severe turbulence at 37,000’. This was about an hour before our passage over the same point. We got the info from our company and also from ATC. There was an east-west line of storms north of us but we were well clear of this, by 40 or 50 miles at least. So in clear air. We proactively descended to 35000’ and were listening for a comment from an airplane out in front of us about 30 or 40 miles going over this spot. They reported moderate turbulence with a gain and loss of about 15 knots of airspeed, right over Mobile, AL. So we were ready for it and sure enough, that’s exactly what we got. There seemed to be no reason for it. We were quite a ways from the weather to our north and there was a crosswind that should have seemingly moved whatever was causing this bizarre turbulence off our flight path. But sure enough, we encountered it. It only lasted 10-15 seconds and I had advised the cabin crew to be seated as we transitioned the area. We got out of the area and the flight resumed uneventfully.

Air Traffic Control was great and advised all traffic of this area of known turbulence.

We use a couple apps on our inflight iPads that show areas of turbulence and PIREPS. Severe turbulence is pretty rare and is usually reported by Cessna 172s or similarly small airplanes as they get tossed around from low level winds and thermals. But when a larger airplane reports severe turbulence, especially in a clear air environment, it gets everyone’s attention. I’ve had honest-to-dog severe to extreme turbulence once and that was one time too many. It is not fun.

[rwsaunders]

The photos of the cabin and galley show a real mess, with ceiling panels missing and ductwork dangling. Apparently the passenger who died had a pre-existing heart condition and it sounds like the turbulence event put him over the edge. We had quite a rollercoaster climb and cruise out of ORD last evening as apparently strong storms were quickly approaching, and sitting in the last row (27) on an Airbus A319 only made for a more "pronounced" experience.

Backstory...I'm at the gate waiting to board and across the way, I can see a gentleman waving his ball cap in what looked to be, my direction. Turned out to be my wife's cousin and his 86yo Mother coming back from visiting his brother in LA. She needs a wheelchair to board and as the chair wasn't there yet, I boarded first and waited for them to board soon after. I then asked the FA if I could trade seats with my wife's aunt, so that she could sit in 1F. When her aunt boarded and I made the trade, she was blown away as she has never ridden up front, which made her day and quite frankly, mine too.

We told her to take it easy on the Prosecco, and I then went to the back of the bus with my wife's cousin and we had a good time catching up on life, crammed in with the "little people" as he called it, and we shared our row with a kid rom Carnegie-Mellon, who had been visiting his folks in India. As we were going through the bumps, the kid made a comment about the turbulence, and I said "don't worry, because if we go down, at least you're sitting in the row with a priest, who will gladly read us all our last rites". The kid smiled a bit and then my wife's cousin (who is a RC priest) leaned over and said that he doesn't wear his collar when he's on vacation (he had an FBI t-shirt on as his brother is a G-Man), but he could still read us our last rights as needed and would be happy to do so, but that we needed to pass the basket first...good times were had in row 27 and 26 for that matter as we were all busting a gut.

[j44ke]

The weather is something else this spring. Predict a shortage on framing lumber and sheetrock. A glut of toothpicks though.

[BBB]

The photos of the cabin and galley show a real mess, with ceiling panels missing and ductwork dangling. Apparently the passenger who died had a pre-existing heart condition and it sounds like the turbulence event put him over the edge. We had quite a rollercoaster climb and cruise out of ORD last evening as apparently strong storms were quickly approaching, and sitting in the last row (27) on an Airbus A319 only made for a more "pronounced" experience.

Backstory...I'm at the gate waiting to board and across the way, I can see a gentleman waving his ball cap in what looked to be, my direction. Turned out to be my wife's cousin and his 86yo Mother coming back from visiting his brother in LA. She needs a wheelchair to board and as the chair wasn't there yet, I boarded first and waited for them to board soon after. I then asked the FA if I could trade seats with my wife's aunt, so that she could sit in 1F. When her aunt boarded and I made the trade, she was blown away as she has never ridden up front, which made her day and quite frankly, mine too.

We told her to take it easy on the Prosecco, and I then went to the back of the bus with my wife's cousin and we had a good time catching up on life, crammed in with the "little people" as he called it, and we shared our row with a kid rom Carnegie-Mellon, who had been visiting his folks in India. As we were going through the bumps, the kid made a comment about the turbulence, and I said "don't worry, because if we go down, at least you're sitting in the row with a priest, who will gladly read us all our last rites". The kid smiled a bit and then my wife's cousin (who is a RC priest) leaned over and said that he doesn't wear his collar when he's on vacation (he had an FBI t-shirt on as his brother is a G-Man), but he could still read us our last rights as needed and would be happy to do so, but that we needed to pass the basket first...good times were had in row 27 and 26 for that matter as we were all busting a gut.

Was the "little people" a Blade Runner reference I wonder?

When you fly from Australia and head towards the Middle East you will encounter turbulence in the warmer areas over the Indian Ocean. Likewise if you are flying north(ish) towards other areas in Asia. I think wearing a seatbelt when you are seated is probably a sensible idea in these circumstances given what happened to the Singapore flight.

[monadnocky]

For the life of me I don't know why people don't wear their seatbelts when not going to the heads. I don't like to get into the territory of blaming people for their own misfortune (unless it was something actively, truly stupid), so I'm not going there. But it's like wearing a seatbelt in a car (and I live in the only state in the Union where adults don't have to (!!!)) - what possible reason might anyone have for not?

[AngryScientist]

For the life of me I don't know why people don't wear their seatbelts when not going to the heads. I don't like to get into the territory of blaming people for their own misfortune (unless it was something actively, truly stupid), so I'm not going there. But it's like wearing a seatbelt in a car (and I live in the only state in the Union where adults don't have to (!!!)) - what possible reason might anyone have for not?

I agree. The other thing I'm uncomfortable with is the lap infant policy. It just strikes me as dangerous to have a tiny baby unsecured in any meaningful way on a vehicle moving 400+ mph through the air.

[rwsaunders]

Was the "little people" a Blade Runner reference I wonder?

Borrowed from Leona Helmsley’s quote of “We don’t pay taxes…only the little people pay taxes”. Her quote was made of course prior to being convicted for tax evasion. My wife’s family uses the term “little people” when making fun of each other, when on occasion someone is being snobbish.

[j44ke]

For the life of me I don't know why people don't wear their seatbelts when not going to the heads. I don't like to get into the territory of blaming people for their own misfortune (unless it was something actively, truly stupid), so I'm not going there. But it's like wearing a seatbelt in a car (and I live in the only state in the Union where adults don't have to (!!!)) - what possible reason might anyone have for not?

I agree. The other thing I'm uncomfortable with is the lap infant policy. It just strikes me as dangerous to have a tiny baby unsecured in any meaningful way on a vehicle moving 400+ mph through the air.

People light themselves on fire, blow themselves up and electrocute themselves daily. Why would you expect them to wear a seatbelt anywhere?

The baby thing is ridiculous though. That's just a product of cost and lack of accommodation, which is also about cost. There was a woman I saw on a recent flight from Paris who put on a baby harness and put the baby in the harness and then seat belted herself into the seat. Looked purpose made for flying because I don't think a normal Baby Bjorn or Snuggly would allow sitting in an airplane seat with a seat belt on.

[gregl]

I agree. The other thing I'm uncomfortable with is the lap infant policy. It just strikes me as dangerous to have a tiny baby unsecured in any meaningful way on a vehicle moving 400+ mph through the air.

People light themselves on fire, blow themselves up and electrocute themselves daily. Why would you expect them to wear a seatbelt anywhere?

The baby thing is ridiculous though. That's just a product of cost and lack of accommodation, which is also about cost. There was a woman I saw on a recent flight from Paris who put on a baby harness and put the baby in the harness and then seat belted herself into the seat. Looked purpose made for flying because I don't think a normal Baby Bjorn or Snuggly would allow sitting in an airplane seat with a seat belt on.

I was never comfortable with the "baby under 2 allowed to be in parent's lap" concept when I was a pilot. Once I had my own child, I was 100% against the concept. My ex and I would always purchase a ticket for our daughter when she was under age two. We would use our aircraft-approved child car seat. On one flight, a "know-it-all" flight attendant demanded that we take our daughter out of the child seat and hold her in one of our laps. When I politely disagreed with her, she said we couldn't use the seat because we hadn't paid for it. I showed her the ticket, hoping this would end the discussion amicably. Nope, she then said we couldn't use the child seat because it wasn't approved. I then flipped the seat over and showed her the approval label. Thankfully, she stopped arguing after that... Here's the FAA's official position on child seats and restraints on airlines: https://www.faa.gov/travelers/fly_ch...20or%20marking.

Greg

[bigbill]

My son was promoted from 2Lt to 1Lt (O-1 to O-2). He is the Marine in the middle, and the other two are Navy classmates. He is finishing up instrument flying, doing 3-4 flights a week. Since he soloed a few months ago, unless it is a certain training flight, he is by himself in the T-6 II.

[rwsaunders]

Another flying term that I really didn't want to learn…Dutch roll. Saab..hopefully you weren’t behind the stick on this flight.

https://apnews.com/article/southwest...m_medium=share

[Saab2000]

Another flying term that I really didn't want to learn…Dutch roll. Saab..hopefully you weren’t behind the stick on this flight.

https://apnews.com/article/southwest...m_medium=share

Not me. Hope they determine the root cause. This phenomenon is real but there’s also equipment to mitigate it. The yaw damper larger cancels this in the real world in almost all airplanes.

The yaw damper can be deferred on revenue flights but there are some operational restrictions. The article is decent and isn’t a clickbait piece. There are commercial airplanes where this equipment isn’t able to be deferred, meaning less inherent stability in the overall design. I smell no rat here. The pilots likely landed the airplane, contacted the dispatcher and maintenance department and made an entry into the logbook. Subsequent inspection revealed the damage. I was once involved in an event that was reportable to the NTSB. I got a call from a chief pilot asking what happened to supplement my written report. Heard no further. Airplanes are designed to have malfunctions and if following procedures and abnormal checklists land safely.

Meanwhile, I can’t quit quite yet but am definitely looking forward to the day I can set the parking brake for the last time and get back on my bike if not full time, close to it. Not staying until mandatory retirement in 7.5 years, that’s for certain. The endless circus is wearing me down now that I’ve achieved all the goals I set for myself when I started on this path 28 years ago.

[Tom]

A B-29 Superfortress is flying around over the Dorptown this morning. The end of my ride was accompanied by very cool engine noise overhead. Big plane flying low and slow

[bigbill]

Update on my son's flight school. A little history, when the Navy transitioned to the Tomcat from Phantoms, it was straight forward, a pilot and a Radar Intercept Officer (Goose) or Weapons System Officer, neither of which is a pilot. The Tomcat was designed to carry the Phoenix long range anti-air missiles, up to six in the air at a time, individually targeted, and a guy to manage it. The idea was to shoot down multiple Soviet bombers potentially carrying nuclear weapons, from a few hundred miles away. The Tomcat role changed after the Cold War to that of a pure fighter. The Navy introduced the Hornet which also replaced the Phantom for the Marines. Technology advanced and the need for a back seater diminished, but the fighter mafia wanted two seat versions, so the F/A-18 D model was introduced and the planned obsolescence of the Tomcat started. Tomcats were expensive to maintain, and in all the carrier deployments I did where we had Tomcats (four) meant pig mat on the deck at every exit of hangar bay three where the Tomcats were maintained. They constantly leaked hydraulic fluid and drip pans can only do so much. Then came the Super Hornet, like putting a Hornet in a copier and selecting 150%, and more two seat versions, even though a pilot could operate all the systems, and the last of the Tomcats went to museums and boneyards.

Now, the F-35C is replacing the Hornets, and the F-35B is replacing the Harriers (AV-8). There are no two seat F-35s and none planned. The Navy and Marines are offering flight school to the remaining Weapons System Officers so they can continue their careers. The ones that are chosen are among the best. My son's class has a WSO who attended Top Gun with his pilot. The issue is class ranking for selection (jets, multi-engine, or rotary). The repurposed WSOs will go to jets, and my son's class has a a few. He has to time his completion to not compete against them so he can get jets as well. He flew with his commanding officer a few days ago and may get accelerated and finish early, which will help his selection. It's all about timing.

[Scott G.]

If the Navy get their Cooperative Combat Aircraft (CCA), the guy in back (WSO)
will have a new job, tasking the CCA's which are unpersoned, autonomous and semi-disposable.
The F/A-XX, the air superiority fighter that is to replace
the F/A-18 might have two seat version for CCA tasking.
If the Navy dithers they might get a version of the Air Forces, Next Gen Air Dominance (NGAD)
which exists in prototype form.

I have now used up my acronym allowance weekly. (AAW)

[rwsaunders]

There are sometimes great views on a commercial flight when you're only 500' above the ground, but perhaps not so much when you're 9 miles from the airport...jeez.

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/s...e=sendgrid.com

[bigbill]

If the Navy get their Cooperative Combat Aircraft (CCA), the guy in back (WSO)
will have a new job, tasking the CCA's which are unpersoned, autonomous and semi-disposable.
The F/A-XX, the air superiority fighter that is to replace
the F/A-18 might have two seat version for CCA tasking.
If the Navy dithers they might get a version of the Air Forces, Next Gen Air Dominance (NGAD)
which exists in prototype form.

I have now used up my acronym allowance weekly. (AAW)

The Marines have a different mission and will shortly disestablish F/A-18 Fleet Replacement Squadrons. The Marines no longer send candidates to Harrier squadrons as well. Everything is going the way of the F-35. I hope that the Marines ask for F/A-18 EX similar to what the chair force is doing with the F-15. Not every situation requires a stealthy, hard to maintain, jet. For many potential adversaries, a show of force with visible aircraft is a deterrent. The F-35 B is a must because all the AV-8s are being retired and the Marines require a VTOL for their amphibious assault ships.

[bigbill]

There are sometimes great views on a commercial flight when you're only 500' above the ground, but perhaps not so much when you're 9 miles from the airport...jeez.

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/s...e=sendgrid.com

Scary stuff. When I was stationed in Oahu, I lived on the west side under the approach path of Honolulu/Hickam. For the most part it was quiet since aircraft are throttled back on approach, but this one time, a C-5 passed over our neighborhood at 500 feet and set off car alarms.