OT: Ultraprocessed foods from WSJ

[vertical_doug]

https://www.wsj.com/business/bread-s...hare_permalink

I want my bread from the baker that turns moldy in a couple days. But hey, that's just me.

But I also make my live yogurt.

[Too Tall]

Walk to the light, embrace Ken Forkish: https://www.reddit.com/r/Breadit/com...sponding_in_2/

The man is bread inspiration he embodies that rare combination of practical practices with spectacular results. In brief, it ain't rocket science to make insanely good bread.

Why we put up with bread that never goes stale is our own d@mn fault.

[bigbill]

Those of us who can pay for bakery bread can enjoy it. If you look at lower income areas, inner city neighborhoods, and small towns with no bakeries, Wonder Bread feeds kids. The companies who make bread respond to demand. I buy Dave's Killer and Franz bread, and they do last for two weeks. Fresh bread such as sourdough loafs from the store bakery last a few days, and we only buy them if we know they'll be used up in a few days. Baguettes are baseball bats by the end of day two. When I lived in Sardinia, you shopped for bread daily, picking up small loaves on the way home.

[echappist]

https://www.wsj.com/business/bread-s...hare_permalink

I want my bread from the baker that turns moldy in a couple days. But hey, that's just me.

But I also make my live yogurt.

Spoken like a man of culture ;)

[vertical_doug]

Those of us who can pay for bakery bread can enjoy it. If you look at lower income areas, inner city neighborhoods, and small towns with no bakeries, Wonder Bread feeds kids. The companies who make bread respond to demand. I buy Dave's Killer and Franz bread, and they do last for two weeks. Fresh bread such as sourdough loafs from the store bakery last a few days, and we only buy them if we know they'll be used up in a few days. Baguettes are baseball bats by the end of day two. When I lived in Sardinia, you shopped for bread daily, picking up small loaves on the way home.

I often wonder if this is a you can pay me now, or pay me later. We create a society of sick unhealthy people which cost more in the long run. The sting is always in the tail.

I am not an economist but the exploitation of workers to provide cheap food may also be part of the problem.

Comrade, Doug

[Scott G.]

[snip] When I lived in Sardinia, you shopped for bread daily, picking up small loaves on the way home.

Sardinia is a blue zone, where the number of centenarians is unusually high.

Back on topic, Mom would cut the crust off the WonderBread sandwiches,
removing most of the food value.
The we had Mrs. Paul fish sticks, and TaterTots, green food was limited
to peas, all of which came out of plastic bags in the freezer.
Breakfast was a box of sugar with corn flakes
mixed in with the mini-marshmallows,
served with orange juice and toasted Wonderbread with creamy
corn oil product spread.

Middle class American diet, 1960s

[thollandpe]

Mom would cut the crust off the WonderBread sandwiches…

For a brief period I was employed by a company that built commercial food plants. When Smuckers came up with Uncrustables they could not make them fast enough. The formula: two slices of white bread, jam (high fructose corn syrup), peanut butter (with of course the peanut oil replaced with hydrogenated vegetable oil), and a Mylar bag (plastic waste).

One secret, the peanut butter was the only high-cost ingredient so they’d contract with school systems to “add value” to their government-allotted peanut butter.

Other secret, the peanut butter was spread on both slices of bread to keep the jam from soaking through. The crusts were cut off like crimping the edges of a ravioli to seal it up before sealing it in the bag.

[thollandpe]

Another story, Spaghetti-O’s.

You can’t just put pasta and tomato sauce in a can because the acidic sauce will dissolve the pasta into mush after a while. So you have to coat the pasta. My boss referred to this lacquer-like spray as “horse piss.”

When starting up a food process, they’re making product but it’s not yet USDA-inspected so they can’t even give it away. They often contract with a pig farm, if there’s one nearby. But the food goes into a dumpster, which is usually swarmed by seagulls and other birds before it’s picked up.

With Spaghetti-O’s, the birds come only the first day. They leave it alone after that.

[bigbill]

For a brief period I was employed by a company that built commercial food plants. When Smuckers came up with Uncrustables they could not make them fast enough. The formula: two slices of white bread, jam (high fructose corn syrup), peanut butter (with of course the peanut oil replaced with hydrogenated vegetable oil), and a Mylar bag (plastic waste).

One secret, the peanut butter was the only high-cost ingredient so they’d contract with school systems to “add value” to their government-allotted peanut butter.

Other secret, the peanut butter was spread on both slices of bread to keep the jam from soaking through. The crusts were cut off like crimping the edges of a ravioli to seal it up before sealing it in the bag.

Uncrustables are a staple on deployments. You don't always get a chance to eat while the chow lines are open, but we kept a small fridge filled with them. We had a conveyor toaster that would give them just the right amount of crisp and warmth. Midnight rations (midrats) were often canned ravioli, affectionately known as "pillows of death."

[caleb]

I often wonder if this is a you can pay me now, or pay me later. We create a society of sick unhealthy people which cost more in the long run. The sting is always in the tail.

I am not an economist but the exploitation of workers to provide cheap food may also be part of the problem.

Comrade, Doug

I have vague recollection of a government study done in the 90s on the costs of smoking in an Eastern European country, perhaps the Czech Republic. The question was how much would be saved by reducing smoking. The answer was that reducing smoking would be a net loss because unhealthy people would live longer and suck up more resources in their old age. Thus, no serious anti-smoking effort. At least that's how I recall it.

The grim problem we face is that processed foods don't kill people quite as fast as cigarettes, and we're left fighting about who is going to pay for healthcare and how.

[claritycycler]

Processed food, cigs and don't forget the millions(hundred?) that live a completely sedentary lifestyle. An active body is one of the best things you can do for your brain/mental well being.

[vertical_doug]

I have vague recollection of a government study done in the 90s on the costs of smoking in an Eastern European country, perhaps the Czech Republic. The question was how much would be saved by reducing smoking. The answer was that reducing smoking would be a net loss because unhealthy people would live longer and suck up more resources in their old age. Thus, no serious anti-smoking effort. At least that's how I recall it.

The grim problem we face is that processed foods don't kill people quite as fast as cigarettes, and we're left fighting about who is going to pay for healthcare and how.

I doubt that math works in the US. US Healthcare has very different costs and economics. Throw in a very large fat tail for health expenditures in the last year of life with years of medication and office visits, and I think the economics will be shocking. I just see it first hand with the health outcomes of my aunts and uncles. Most are a product of lifestyle choices.

Healthcare in Canada is significantly less expensive than the US, so if the cost differential is this large in Canada, it will be larger in the US.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/6/e026022

[ides1056]

Arriving early for a visit with my doctor I overheard her pleading with a patient on the phone: drink less, smoke less, eat less, exercise.

Seems like a no-brainer. Choose life.

[kdawg]

There's definitely something in this - there's a reason my generation (mid-40s - where did that come from?) isn't going to live as long as my grand-parents (would be 100ish now). My parents (70s) probably benefit from a lifetime of their choices - homecooked unprocessed meals, but by the time it got to me there was a lot of processed stuff (and just basic misinformation).

Recently we made some fairly significant changes - essentially we eat tons of veg, moderate lean protein and small amounts of other stuff. If I haven't had my 8 portions of veg I start craving them - and I feel great. 49lbs lighter as of last week and I'm sleeping significantly better. I'm pretty sure that long term it's going to be helpful too.

[holliscx]

You can pry my Salisbury steak Swanson TV dinner patty from my cold, dead hands.

[claritycycler]

You can pry my Salisbury steak Swanson TV dinner patty from my cold, dead hands.

Shouldn't be very long until someone comes along with the pry bar.

[bcm119]

Processed foods have been rightly demonized, but there is a harmful backlash going on as well. Social media "influencers", who are mostly know-nothings, often push crazy diets and demonize perfectly healthy food, like whole grains, fruit, even water. Some "fruit-only diet" whack job just died of malnutrition recently. We've known what a healthy diet is for decades - a balance of grains, veggies, fruits, and a little lean meat and dairy.

[vertical_doug]

Can someone pass me a Tide Pod, I'm hungry

[bigbill]

I do some work on Indian Reservations and there is a high occurrence of diabetes. For tens of thousands of year, native diets were meat, roots, corn, and some berries. Mostly meat. A staple on many reservations, especially in the Southwest and Great Plains is fry bread. Fry bread was created by necessity because of the rations the American Indians would receive from the Army. Many times the meat was rancid and unfit even for dogs. Tribes learned to use the flour and lard to make fry bread. Fry bread is delicious, like a less sweet funnel cake. People eat it with butter and honey, or make an "Indian Taco." Then the diabetes set in. In one Tribe, the Supai, diabetes is so common that it is accepted as a fact of life.

[fastupslowdown]

When I was a kid in Queens neighborhood I lived in or visited had a Jewish-German style bakery. There was something special about the fresh baked rye bread. When I moved to the UWS there was still one in the neighborhood(I think the outside of it was used in their Schnizer's rye episode). Today that's all gone. Supermarket bread may be cheaper but its nutritionally lacking and frankly tasted like cardboard, soft cardboard usually.

The science is clear. Highly processed foods are inflammatory to our bodies. Did I leave out processed meats? It's all bad. Might have liked wonder bread as a kid for somethings but its basically drek. -Mike G