The direction of society lately

[BBB]

I'm not even sure what is the end goal here, and it's very possible that there isn't one.

Maybe this is the goal.

https://theconversation.com/is-elon-...ncerned-249471

Clearly Trump has his issues and wants revenge on the various people who did their job and held him to account, but outsourcing the control of government spending to a player fits the description set out in this article. It will also lead to endemic corruption.

[j44ke]

DOGE in reverse is EGOD.

[echappist]

DOGE in reverse is EGOD.

Oy vey :(

[suspectdevice]

Hey Bill,
When’s the last time an American aircraft carrier collided with a commercial vessel?

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/...y?id=118787251

[Scott G.]

The last known collision between a carrier and a merchant ship was on July 22, 2004, when the former USS John F. Kennedy (CV-67) collided with a small dhow in the Persian Gulf during night helicopter operations. The commander of the carrier was relieved after an initial investigation.
USNI News

[echappist]

Looks like corruption and quid pro quo are fully on the menu.

The DOJ is forcing its prosecutors to drop the corruption charges against NYC Mayor Eric Adams, leading to the resignation of the lead prosecutor in charge of the case. The lead prosecutor is actually a card-carrying member of the Federalist Society and was recently appointed to her position by the current administration, but her superiors effectively stated that those willing to file the papers to dismiss the charges will be promoted, while those unwilling to do so will be demoted. (Gift link here).

Someone on this forum recently mentioned that there is little to fear for the well being the U.S. (country of citizenship for most of us here), because said poster cited to "faith in our system of democracy", whatever that means.

I'm afraid one major operating principle of the present administration is based on quid pro quo, with the only operative currency being favors rather than rules and laws. One cited reason for why DOJ wants to drop the charges is because the Acting Deputy AG Emil Bove states that the corruption case "could interfere with the mayor’s reelection bid and his efforts to work with the Trump administration on immigration enforcement" (see article linked, emphasis mine).

If that's not a clear cut example of quid pro quo, I don't know what is. So much for law and order. And you see, I really want the fellow forumite to be right and that I be mistaken for my doubts. After all, it's so much more important that my adopted homeland (and the only country of which I am a citizen) is in good shape, and if my prognostication were wrong, so be it and I can own up. But unfortunately, I'm in this weird Cassandra-like scenario where I could be correct in my trepidation re: the present situation, but the overall nation at large is in a bad shape.

PS. Yes, I admit to eating crow cake. I have resubscribed to the WaPo b/c it covers a certain part of the U.S. affairs closely related to my livelihood.

[Walter Sobchak]

When’s the last time an American aircraft carrier collided with a commercial vessel?
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/...y?id=118787251

Mayhem courtesy of a DUI hire. Can't you smell that smell?
IMG_4165.jpeg

They call you Prince Charming
Can't speak a word when you're full of the ludes
Say you'll be alright come tomorrow
But tomorrow may not be here for you

[BBB]

Looks like corruption and quid pro quo are fully on the menu.

Why is anyone surprised?

Setting aside all his other or alleged crimes and misdemeanours, Trump is a white collar criminal.

These types of people don't change their spots.

The fish rots from the head after all.

[robin3mj]

I had dinner with some business associates this week and one of them, an otherwise seemingly capable, intelligent adult, told me that they had suspicions about the “motive behind” the DCA plane crash because their brother in the Navy (based somewhere in Florida, whose bona fides were that he had flown in helicopters before) was told as fact that the Blackhawk did it deliberately.

This is not the first nonsense I’ve heard at work events in the past few months and I’m starting to realize how much of a (hopefully rational) bubble I may be living in while a decent enough sized chunk of the populace has completely lost the plot.

[echappist]

Why is anyone surprised?

Setting aside all his other or alleged crimes and misdemeanours, Trump is a white collar criminal.

These types of people don't change their spots.

The fish rots from the head after all.

It's not as glaring when the quid pro quo is on threats to instate tariffs, only to bring those off the table once Mexico and Canada agreed to something that mollified the the present administration.

It's a lot more glaring to see selective enforcement or lack thereof. After all, there is sufficient evidence that a grand jury indicted Adams, yet he's spared for favors. I can't think of as stark an exercise in favor trading, though granted, I've only followed U.S. politics for 25 years.

[Clyde]

Love me some Skynyrd!

[takashi]

Just how wasted is Hegseth getting while he is touring Europe?

Can you imagine trusting this dope with your life?

[ides1056]

I have a copy of The New Yorker, dated 10/21/2024, with Alexi Navalny on the cover and excerpts from his prison journal inside. I can unequivocally recommend reading this repeatedly. “ In every period, the essence of politics has been that of a tin-pot tsar who wants to arrogate to himself the right to personal, unaccountable power… there are, by an order of magnitude, more honest people than the mean little tsar’s security guards. The only thing we have to fear is that we will surrender our homeland to be plundered by a hand of liars, thieves, and hypocrites.”

[suspectdevice]

I finally got to cook dinner for my parents tonight for the first time since Saint Luigi got arraigned.
I was reminded that every grandfather i never knew lost their minds fighting fascists. I was reminded of all the beloved Men my parents lost in ‘Nam, the two rape babies my mother carried to term before my birth, and the reality of public-sector public-works employment before Regan.

Compared to most of you here, i feel like a baby, one with far too great historical recall to make it through this nightmare.

Every time i think about all the 20th century things my parents fought for, that were my fin-de-siecle reality- and i look at the world today, i am so, so very happy I never made a baby.

As an American (one too poor for a foreign golden visa) It’s hard to imagine a world worth living in past tomorrow, let alone a few years from now.

I don’t see many men under the age of 65 even giving a fuck about reality these days.

This sclerotic “democracy” is cooked, chat.

[BBB]

I finally got to cook dinner for my parents tonight for the first time since Saint Luigi got arraigned.
I was reminded that every grandfather i never knew lost their minds fighting fascists. I was reminded of all the beloved Men my parents lost in ‘Nam, the two rape babies my mother carried to term before my birth, and the reality of public-sector public-works employment before Regan.

Compared to most of you here, i feel like a baby, one with far too great historical recall to make it through this nightmare.

Every time i think about all the 20th century things my parents fought for, that were my fin-de-siecle reality- and i look at the world today, i am so, so very happy I never made a baby.

As an American (one too poor for a foreign golden visa) It’s hard to imagine a world worth living in past tomorrow, let alone a few years from now.

I don’t see many men under the age of 65 even giving a fuck about reality these days.

This sclerotic “democracy” is cooked, chat.

Saint Luigi being the guy who shot the CEO in the back (which started this thread to begin with)? I'm not really up with my sainthood, but don't they usually involve death and miracle(s)?

I guess that is beside the point.

The long arc of history would suggest that the dial will move in the right direction. Eventually.

The Trump experiment will fail, but it will leave a big mess behind. Right leaning governments, for all their fan fare and ceremony, make a mess of things. Hitler built some roads, got people working after the depression and had some fancy uniforms, but got the country destroyed and divided, with the eastern part becoming a defacto Soviet state for almost 45 years. Not to mention the reputational damage that comes with killing 5 million people. Good one Corporal Hitler. Trump already had one go at making America great again, but messed it up. He couldn't lock Hillary up, couldn't build a wall (or at least a credible one), had some whacky medical ideas (while availing himself of state of the art medical care when he too caught the so-called 'China virus') and seemingly had no idea that evidence was needed in a court room to prove fraud. Yes we were worried. But, we also laughed. Even the UN laughed. At him. Admittedly being re-elected undermines my theory a little, but the Trump experiment will fail the second time too. There will be a bigger mess, but fail it will. It might seem hard to see now in the face of blaming diversity for a plane crash or squeezing the public service (and presumably lining the pockets of the private sector in the process) for example, but Trumpism will eventually fall flat on its face.

The 20th century was certainly barbaric, but the things parents, grandparents or great grandparents fought for were worth fighting for. Women historically did not have the right to vote for example, yet where I grew up in Australia women were granted the right to vote in 1894. Marital rape was also progressively abolished in Australia, and in the grand scheme of things, only relatively recently. In my lifetime consensual sex between men was decriminalised and gay marriage has been progressively legalised. Great strides have been made on racial equality. Australia is far from perfect, but indigenous Australians were granted the right to vote during the 1960s and gained full voting equality in the 1980s. And this all took place at a time when Nelson Mandela was in jail and Sth Africa was considered a pariah state (certainly on the sporting field where the door was shut in its face), all of which changed in the early 1990s. Whaling has been abolished in my life time (aside from one or two countries who hold out) and a species that in my childhood that looked like it was on the verge of extinction has turned the corner. And so on.

I get the world is far from perfect and there are plenty of challenges moving forward, and some people are raging against the dying light as you intimate, but we are, slowly, moving in the right direction. We need leaders to unite and not divide. We need someone with sufficient authority to give a 'we will fight on the beaches (etc)" type speech in response to the challenge thrown up by climate change. Greatness does not come from having more money than the next person, or a greater number of guns than the next country. Trump views greatness as winning. It's not.

Don't despair. Just yet.

[suspectdevice]

I love your sentiment, BBB.
But:
All the way over in Australia, i think you miss, perhaps completely, how completely irredeemable, broken, and ready to die most young Americans are.
There is no time for the arc of history to bend toward justice- we have perhaps… 20? years left of the American coast and the southen interior being habitable- between sea level rise and the heat island effect from our intermodal shipping container and cul de sac dependent culture. Even if America does end up having another presidential election in 2028(which seems unlikely), you will be faced with the poorest, least educated electorate since the Gilded Age. Remember, America started attacking public education 40 years ago- at this point our schools turn out the stupidest people in the industrialized world. Believe me, the plurality of Americans are dumb as rocks, raised on idolatry, spoon fed propaganda, and morbidly obese. These people aren’t capable of fighting for themselves, let alone coming together to fight for the rights of others.

There is no “opposition party”. The wickedness unleashed by these fascist dogs was 💯 enabled by the feckless Democratic party going farther right every election, until their final Presidential candidate, a pro genocide millionaire ex-cop from Hollywood, proved not-cruel enough to inspire enough Americans to vote for her more dignified version of oligarchy and servitude.

Many, many, many Americans want a post-constitutional republic, led by a dictator.
They voted for a man who said, explicitly he would be a dictator from day one.

Hope for the future? That’s for loosers.
Prepping for civil war and societal collapse is the only way forward.

[BBB]

I know Australia is, to quote a former Prime Minister, at the arse end of the Earth, but some of the changes I mentioned did not happen in isolation. Voting rights, civil rights and so on unfolded in the 20th century in other countries, including your own. Yes there is still more work to be done - it might be pretty hard to be an openly gay woman in Saudi Arabia for example, but the needle is moving in the right direction ever so slowly.

Are most young Americans ready to die? It would be interesting to hear other perspectives on this.

As much as I have heaped on right wing governments, the same applies to left wing governments. They don't work that well either. Extremes in either direction never really do. The centre is where the beating heart of the electorate is. This is where politicians need to focus their efforts. As I have said in another post in this thread, only a relatively small percentage of people need to change their vote the next time round and the government changes hands. Those few % are unlikely to come from the fringes. They will be to the left or right of centre (though probably the right).

I really don't know enough about Harris to comment, but she seems intelligent and articulate, which is a far cry from Trump (eg https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...sylvania-rally). Maybe you're right, and the people just want a dictator. The reality is probably far more nuanced than that, but voting for Trump over the alternative seems a bit like cutting your nose off to spite your face. At least from my perspective in the arse end of the Earth.

[j44ke]

I think the Trumpets need to listen to their own messages to Europe. That the embrace of the tropes of facism by the population should be taken as an avatar of their discontent and not a demand for fascism or totalitarianism. But then, the Trumpets own appetites for control cannot seem to be constrained from implementing a fascist system of control over the government as fast as possible. So what is it? Avatars or a mandate? The Trumpets' seem to be saying avatar while running with scissors as if it were a mandate. Fascist cake and eat it too. No one should be surprised, but it is the same old crowd of Cassandras out there screaming "Beware of the horse" and everyone else is just gone. Nowhere.

[BBB]

They certainly need to weigh their messages to Europe against their own actions. How is telling the Euros that we may disagree with your views but we'll defend your right to air them in any way consistent with pulling books out of schools for the kids of defence personnel? Books are food for the mind for kids. The Trumpets, as you call them, are scared.

[sk_tle]

only a relatively small percentage of people need to change their vote the next time round

You are assuming there will be a vote and/or a non fixed one to begin with. Most dictators get magically reelected on a regular basis and it can take decades and very often an external input (like in Syria recently) for a revolution to happen.