irrational fear of flying

[j44ke]

Flying over Labrador on my way back from Paris. Now battling a head cold probably given to everyone in my section by the gentleman three rows behind me who was coughing enough to earn a beheading by Caligula.

[echappist]

Flying over Labrador on my way back from Paris. Now battling a head cold probably given to everyone in my section by the gentleman three rows behind me who was coughing enough to earn a beheading by Caligula.

Ooph, sorry to hear and wishing you a speedy recovery. I wore N95 on flights long before Covid and will continue to do so for the reason you mentioned.

While checking out flight maps, I noticed that certain eastward Trans-Atlantic flights fly right over London (say various flights to MUC), and that quite a few westward flights do the same (including ones originating from CDG).

Did yours happen to have overflew London?

[j44ke]

Ooph, sorry to hear and wishing you a speedy recovery. I wore N95 on flights long before Covid and will continue to do so for the reason you mentioned.

While checking out flight maps, I noticed that certain eastward Trans-Atlantic flights fly right over London (say various flights to MUC), and that quite a few westward flights do the same (including ones originating from CDG).

Did yours happen to have overflew London?

No it went south of England and then across Ireland on its way to the Labrador Sea. Unfortunately there were a lot of clouds as the east coast storms moved out over the ocean. We flew at 35 - 36,000 feet almost the entire trip and didn't really experience any more than the usual turbulence.

Labrador is crisscrossed by these incredible straight lines that seem like they must be pipelines or power lines, but on Google maps you can only see them from way out. When you zoom in to look at them in detail, they get fuzzed out and indistinguishable from the surrounding vegetation.

[Saab2000]

No it went south of England and then across Ireland on its way to the Labrador Sea. Unfortunately there were a lot of clouds as the east coast storms moved out over the ocean. We flew at 35 - 36,000 feet almost the entire trip and didn't really experience any more than the usual turbulence.

Labrador is crisscrossed by these incredible straight lines that seem like they must be pipelines or power lines, but on Google maps you can only see them from way out. When you zoom in to look at them in detail, they get fuzzed out and indistinguishable from the surrounding vegetation.

Here’s a bit of info on how your route is chosen. That airplane doesn’t have enough engines. The only substitute for 4 is 6, not 2. The counters of beans don’t agree with this of course, but I sure feel better whenever the rare 4-holer takes me across the pond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks

[thollandpe]

That airplane doesn’t have enough engines. The only substitute for 4 is 6, not 2. The counters of beans don’t agree with this of course, but I sure feel better whenever the rare 4-holer takes me across the pond.

EROPS, schmeerops. Three is pretty cool, though. My Dad did some important work on the L-1011 back in the day. He actually got to fly in one but I never did.

Of course Lockheed brought a little awe into everything they ever did.

[thollandpe]

Does anyone know if the FAA issued their ground-shaking directive before or after yesterday’s fatal crash in AZ?

Glad that this immediate and priority order was concerned with critical life-safety stuff like making damn sure that NOTAM means Notice To Air Men instead of Notice To Air Missions. Somebody’s fragile manhood was depending on it, I guess. Better to attend to that rather than actually making the national airspace safer.



Not that it much matters when, but it would be even more sick if this came out afterward.

[j44ke]

Here’s a bit of info on how your route is chosen. That airplane doesn’t have enough engines. The only substitute for 4 is 6, not 2. The counters of beans don’t agree with this of course, but I sure feel better whenever the rare 4-holer takes me across the pond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks

When we took off at CDG, I had the underbody camera on my screen and we flew over the FedEx plane crossing the runway our plane had just taken off from. Though there was significant clearance between the two planes, it was a little startling. Once we passed over Ireland, there was another plane out my window that flew alongside us for a couple hours. It was close enough I could see that it was a commercial plane but far enough away I couldn't read which company. Later while we were at 36,000 feet, I saw a plane flying much higher than we were, and it seemed to be traveling faster as well. It appeared to be a swept wing plane like a military jet. Busy day.

[Saab2000]

Does anyone know if the FAA issued their ground-shaking directive before or after yesterday’s fatal crash in AZ?

Glad that this immediate and priority order was concerned with critical life-safety stuff like making damn sure that NOTAM means Notice To Air Men instead of Notice To Air Missions. Somebody’s fragile manhood was depending on it, I guess. Better to attend to that rather than actually making the national airspace safer.



Not that it much matters when, but it would be even more sick if this came out afterward.

This safety-critical directive came out a few days after the collision of the CRJ and the Blackhawk helicopter in DCA. Clearly, their priorities are in the right place.

[Saab2000]

EROPS, schmeerops. Three is pretty cool, though. My Dad did some important work on the L-1011 back in the day. He actually got to fly in one but I never did.

Of course Lockheed brought a little awe into everything they ever did.

Yeah, I think we miss them today. There’s still a Tristar parked at MCI (Kansas City) but it won’t fly again. There’s a company there that appears to part out old airplanes and then scrap them. It was ahead of its time but today is a relic. There’s either one or no airworthy L-1011s today. And certainly few qualified to operate one. I remember seeing a handful when I worked in ZRH years ago but even then they were on their way out and only flown by sort of fringe operators, the exception being Delta Air Lines, which ran them for a long time. I once flew in a Delta L-1011 but didn’t know enough to appreciate it at the time.

[Scott G.]

Here’s a bit of info on how your route is chosen. That airplane doesn’t have enough engines. The only substitute for 4 is 6, not 2. The counters of beans don’t agree with this of course, but I sure feel better whenever the rare 4-holer takes me across the pond.

A 6x10 is more better, also it could land on water for Mid Atlantic cod fishing.
The Saro Princess, had 10 Proteus turbo prop engines turning 6 props.
The 4 inboard props had dual Proteus'
105 passengers.

Princess-Flying.jpg

[gregl]

Here’s a bit of info on how your route is chosen. That airplane doesn’t have enough engines. The only substitute for 4 is 6, not 2. The counters of beans don’t agree with this of course, but I sure feel better whenever the rare 4-holer takes me across the pond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Atlantic_Tracks

All my ocean crossings in 0L/0R were in the mighty JetStar II or JetStar 731. They didn’t have the long range of current twins, but did have 4 engines, each capable of providing pressurization and electrical power. An engine out was a non-event, with drift down altitudes typically above FL300. Another fine product from the genius of Kelly Johnson.

https://rbogash.com/jetstar.html
https://www.airvectors.net/avjetst.html

Greg

[Saab2000]

All my ocean crossings in 0L/0R were in the mighty JetStar II or JetStar 731. They didn’t have the long range of current twins, but did have 4 engines, each capable of providing pressurization and electrical power. An engine out was a non-event, with drift down altitudes typically above FL300. Another fine product from the genius of Kelly Johnson.

https://rbogash.com/jetstar.html
https://www.airvectors.net/avjetst.html

Greg

My first airline (LX) and my second (ZW) operated the 4-engined BAe-146/Avro and in both cases an engine failure or shutdown was not considered an emergency. There were calculations to be completed regarding altitude and burn but it wasn’t a critical emergency. Today an engine-out is a no-shit emergency. And over the middle of the ocean a lot of pucker factor. No thanks, despite the stats. Been there, done that. I don’t love it. Just my $.02. I love flying on the Airbus A340. A rare treat nowadays and rapidly diminishing. The guy who taught me how to fly? He flies A340s.

[Mabouya]

The only substitute for 4 is 6, not 2. The counters of beans don’t agree with this of course, but I sure feel better whenever the rare 4-holer takes me across the pond.

How much longer until we'll be saying the same thing about the number of warm human bodies in the cockpit?

I don't know about going down to zero for long haul flights (I do know that several start-ups are currently working on uncrewed short-hop eVTOL air taxis) but I bet within our lifetimes (I'm in my early 60's) some commercial routes will be flown with only one pilot.

[bironi]

Perhaps it is time to insert a, "?" following the word, "Irrational" in this thread title.

[Mabouya]

Perhaps it is time to insert a, "?" following the word, "Irrational" in this thread title.

I wouldn't worry - we'll will soon have the US Air Traffic Control system all ship-shape and 100% safe, once we switch to computers. Maybe they can use the same software Musk / Tesla uses for the autonomous driving cars.

“I think what is going to happen is we’re all going to sit down and do a great computerized system for our control towers. Brand new—not pieced together, obsolete.”

[Saab2000]

I think Boeing and Airbus are working on single pilot aircraft but I think it’ll be a while before we fly in large airliners that are single pilot. AI could make autonomous airplanes a thing but public acceptance is a ways off. Based on how I think, self-driving cars are a much harder problem to solve than autonomous airplanes due to the higher number of variable in a vehicular traffic environment.

[bigbill]

I did a "Noah's Ark" flight on an ATA L1011 in 2000. We flew from Norfolk NAS to Lajes to Rota to Naples to Sigonella to Bahrain. The flight was for military members and their family to fly to new duty stations. Lajes is an Air Force Base so we had to de-plane while they fueled. A few dozen passengers and their families stayed in Lajes. Otherwise, all the pets were off-loaded and there was a dog park so they could run around before continuing on. It was around 2 am. Then we flew to Rota where we got out and walked around. A few dozen passengers got off there. Then Naples and nothing was open because of the early hour, more people got off. Sigonella had a Burger King. By the time we departed Sigonella, there were only 20 passengers. We got to Bahrain late at night and were scattered to area hotels. The entire flight, no new passengers, just people arriving at their new duty stations. The pilots said the aircraft was chartered to pick up troops in Germany and return them to the U.S.

[Saab2000]

I did a "Noah's Ark" flight on an ATA L1011 in 2000. We flew from Norfolk NAS to Lajes to Rota to Naples to Sigonella to Bahrain. The flight was for military members and their family to fly to new duty stations. Lajes is an Air Force Base so we had to de-plane while they fueled. A few dozen passengers and their families stayed in Lajes. Otherwise, all the pets were off-loaded and there was a dog park so they could run around before continuing on. It was around 2 am. Then we flew to Rota where we got out and walked around. A few dozen passengers got off there. Then Naples and nothing was open because of the early hour, more people got off. Sigonella had a Burger King. By the time we departed Sigonella, there were only 20 passengers. We got to Bahrain late at night and were scattered to area hotels. The entire flight, no new passengers, just people arriving at their new duty stations. The pilots said the aircraft was chartered to pick up troops in Germany and return them to the U.S.

During a shortish stint at a Minneapolis based airline in 2016 until the beginning of 2017 before my current and likely final airline job, I did some DOD charter flying. It was all in 737s and all I can say is that's not an ideal airplane for what we did because it's not a long range airframe, which a maximum endurance of about 7 hours plus legal reserves. So flying from the US to the Middle East requires a bunch of stops and crew swaps. It must have been super lucrative for the airline because the logistics of making it work were crazy, what with pre-positioning crews at those places and arranging overflight rights, etc. We rarely transported more than 60-80 service members on a 162-seat 737-800. I operated from Gander to Rammstein and back in a 36 hour period and a week later did a flight from Athens to Qatar overnight. The time in Athens acclimating to the time difference was my best time at that company. I rarely play tourist in my job but that time I did. It was great seeing all the ancient things Athens has to offer.

[72gmc]

I once flew in a Delta L-1011 but didn’t know enough to appreciate it at the time.

My one flight in an L-1011 was also Delta. I wish I had better memories of it. I was intrigued when the plane was on the ground, but in flight the interior rattled and the no smoking lights flickered and it just felt like an airborne vw microbus that had been overhauled by hippies too many times.

[rwsaunders]

Popped up on my iPhone tonight…I logged quite a few miles in the PNW on Alaska’s old Q400’s.