Frame jig

[revtilton]

I have been using a friends jig for a while and now want to buy my own
I would like your thought on what I should get. I am doing luged frames.
I need something in a decent price range. What would you all suggest

sincerly

revtitlon :)

[mjbabcock]

search.bikelist.org

[Bill Bryant]

It would be a whole lot more useful if you could tell us what is a "decent" price for ~your~ budget.

Personally, I think the prices for Anvil equipment are "decent" for a pro builder. On the other hand, if you are a hobbyist, then a Bringheli is decent in its own way. The Henry James jigs are very good too. You need to decide what group you fall into and that will help shape your search efforts.

FWIW, I use a Bringheli due to budget constraints--but I'm not a pro and not so worried about speed of construction. I can sacrifice time for lower jig $$. If I were trying to make a living with it, then I think it has too many compromises (that also keep the cost down.)

Bill Bryant

[crumpton]

revtitlon :)

revtilton???

[mjbabcock]

Seriously, can we not rehash this discussion when it's the equivalent of a Campy vs. Shimano debate. Someone lock this thing.

[pyranha]

Seriously, can we not rehash this discussion when it's the equivalent of a Campy vs. Shimano debate. Someone lock this thing.

mjbabcock: you ain't gotta read it atmo.

[EricKeller]

Here's how I rank the available jigs (from shopping, not using)
Anvil Super Journeyman
Anvil Journeyman
Sputnik
Henry James
Bringheli
I have to say I don't understand why anyone would ask this question either. Compare budget to price and cut a check. I would dearly love to have an Anvil, but I don't think my budget will cover it right now.

[Tommy Nash]

What kind of jig does your friend have, and what do you like/dislike about it? What volume of frames do you see yourself building a year? Are you going to build forks too? Do you have all the other tools you'll need/want?

I think all of these questions should be considered before moving forward.

I love my Anvil Journeyman, but if I were only building a few, only lugged bikes a year, I don't know if it would have been the most prudent choice. The only other jig I have any experience with is the HJ Universal worked great, especially for lugged construction.

Cheers,

[anthonymaietta]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANVIL-BIKE-FIXTU...:B:SRCH:US:101

(not mine)

I have this triumverate of Anvil tools and have zero complaints.

[revtilton]

It came down to listing from most to least favorite. I know that I want an Anvil but it was out of my range. The most important thing to me was the Henry James jig vs the Bringheli. Simple and to the point was the response that I wanted. If you have one of the Jigs or worked on one that what is your thoughts.

I have worked with a 80/20 jig in a factory and I have also worked with a Bringheli. At this time I don't have the money to get a new Anvil. I don't pump out that many bikes and I may never. I just wanted to know if there are nice opinions of one $2000.00 jig price vs another.

[EricKeller]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANVIL-BIKE-FIXTU...:B:SRCH:US:101

(not mine)

I have this triumverate of Anvil tools and have zero complaints.

I guess the seller got a sale offline? Now that I no longer search ebay obsessively I never see these things until after they are sold.

The Bringheli is $1300 and the HJ Access 65 is $2500. I'd definitely go for the HJ if the money isn't too much of a problem because it seems to be obviously superior. Steve Garro has one and was recommending it in a post in the classifieds.

[zank]

My new Super J-Man will be on display at NAHBS in Don's booth. Have a look at it there. I'll also post lots of pics here once I get it back to my shop after the show. Anyway, Anvil is what I would suggest. The cost of a regular J-Man is not that much higher than a HJ universal jig. Keep saving!

[Jamie Medeiros]

I am using 2 Sputnik frame jigs and one Anvil Super Master eight hours a day. I find the Sputniks much easier to set up. I can set all the numbers with one hand. The Anvil is a great jig, it is just a little awkward to set up. Both seem to be sufficiently accurate, a bike built in one slips right into the other.

[EnginCycles]

I have tooling from both and also tend to fall in the camp of having lots of opinions. I am not into stepping on people's toes but I find it odd that people claim this or that to be better without real world experience of using all the mentioned products. Brownbird is one person here that has real world experience. The journeyman is a good fixture but has its issues (which seem to have been dealt with since mine) but saying it is better than the new Sptunik Jeff makes is crazy. Having an X and Y for chain stay length and drop is one thing that instantly makes it better. All the other stuff aside the master style fixture is on the same level but the journeyman is a budget pro level fixture and Jeff's fixture is not budget. He did not cut any corners on it. He will have one at NAHBS and people should look at it before suggesting it is 3rd tier.

-Drew

[themanmonkey]

My new Super J-Man will be on display at NAHBS in Don's booth.

When I talked to Don in November he said he had stopped making the Super Master and that he took some of its features and added them to the Journeyman and bumped that price up to $4200. Did he decide to reissue the Super?

Also I believe the Bringheli is now $1500-$1600 now and the HJ prices are up too I've heard. I was pretty sure we were going to see a lot of used fixtures on the market, but they have yet to materialize. The new Sputnik is just looking stellar at half the price as the Euro jigs.

EDIT: Sorry zank I just noticed you said Super Journeyman. I saw super and went from there.

[Archibald]

For the sake of clarity and not to get into who shot John discussions, the Journeyman Type 2 is $3,900. The Super Journeyman is $5,400.

[Doug Fattic]

While this question has often been asked before I'm not sure all information has been presented or exhausted. The most interesting responses to me are those that have actually used several different ones for comparison. I have a dog in this fight (I sell one of my design) so my observations are not without personal bias.

I have a Bike Machinery "Hydra" and an Anvil Master. These are useful for my framebuilding classes. I’ve used others in the past. However my fixture of preference is a "picture frame" type I have laser cut and etched out of flat stock stainless steel. It comes from the method used by many British builders. F.W. Evans in a late 30's advertising brochure claims its invention and explains why he thinks it is superior to doing a full scale drawing. My fixture does three tasks: 1. Frame design (no need for a drawing), 2. miter checks and 3. holding the tubes for spot brazing together.

I start out by designing the frame around the rider's contact points by placing the seat and stem in their required position on the fixture. The flat pieces that are holding those components and represent the tubes are slide around until they are in the chosen position of the rider. Or a frame can be designed any conventional way. Almost every length and angle can be directly read on the etchings. There are bells and whistles that indicate rake, drop, standover height and saddle setback. There is another device to level the top tube or set it at various angles. I especially like that I can measure the distance from the front wheel to establish where the bottom of the head tube should be. No math (especially trig) is needed. The V blocks holding the tubes are height adjustable for different tube diameters or bb irregularities.

It is easy to check the accuracy of the miters in the fixture by holding the ends of the tubes against the head and/or seat tube. Then either the tubes can be revised or the fixture adjusted so everything matches.

I've spent hundreds of hours over the years refining the design. It is just a way that makes the most sense to me. It requires a flat surface plate to sit on and it does not do the rear triangle. I do that with an adjustable T tool, straight edge and a true wheel. It is just a spotting fixture and is not designed for brazing a complete joint in.

One of the problems of cheaper fixtures is getting a rear wheel to perfectly center relying only on the accuracy of the fixture itself. Even expensive ones can have rear triangle issues. I can not depend on either the Hydra or Master to get the chain stay length perfect 100% of the time (the Hydra is better) and there is no chance that will happen with less expensive fixtures.

I've got pictures of the fixture on our website about our Ukraine bike ride here: <www.ukrainebicycletours.com>

Doug Fattic
Niles, Michigan

[EricKeller]

I have tooling from both and also tend to fall in the camp of having lots of opinions. I am not into stepping on people's toes but I find it odd that people claim this or that to be better without real world experience of using all the mentioned products.
-Drew

Since I put it third and I'm the only one that ranked them, I'm interpreting your comment as responding to mine. Saying that I called it 3rd tier would really be putting words in my mouth. The Sputnik and Anvils are obviously of similar utility, and it would be hard for me to differentiate between them from afar. I was going to say this in my first post, but I wasn't taking the question all that seriously since the OP didn't put any effort into posing the question.

Anyone know what the current price is on a Sputnik? It's starting to grow on me.

For the sake of clarity and not to get into who shot John discussions, the Journeyman Type 2 is $3,900. The Super Journeyman is $5,400.

Wait, you know who shot John?

[Jamie Medeiros]

The Sputnik jig has a very accurate chain stay drop scale on it and it would take 10 minutes and some stick on rule to give it an accurate chain stay x.( there is even a groove in the extruded aluminum support that the 1cm wide rule would fit perfectly). I tack the bottom bracket, chain stays and drop outs in a separate jig, so i have never needed to use a chain stay x. The drop is also much easier to set on the Sputnik. The one big issue with the Sputnik is that it has a 5" stand off height from the back plate. It would make it awkward to braze anything in. Since I am just tig welding tacks in this jig the back plate provides protection from wind and makes the tacking less prone to having the purge gas blown away.

[Archibald]

....must...resist....