Teach me to teach

[caleb]

Dear Jerk,

I work part time in a bike shop, and I fit people on road bikes as a regular part of that job.

Your views about bike fit are, sir, entirely correct. The problem is, if I were to put them into practice, I would lose my job. Our client base is fat, out of shape, rich, white dudes (a whole other issue). If I set them up properly, our customers would walk. My boss would be pissed.

In an effort to keep my job, I begin with the "bar stool" fit because that's what they want. I then tell them to come back after they've ridden 500 miles for "adjustment". Problem is, they don't come back. I feel personally responsible for unleashing evil upon the world - it's as if I am doomed to give birth to ugly children daily.

What should I do? Is it possible to fit people properly right out of the gate if you educate them in the process? If so, of what does such an education consist?

Regards,

Caleb

[Ray]

Dear Jerk,

I work part time in a bike shop, and I fit people on road bikes as a regular part of that job.

Your views about bike fit are, sir, entirely correct. The problem is, if I were to put them into practice, I would lose my job. Our client base is fat, out of shape, rich, white dudes (a whole other issue). If I set them up properly, our customers would walk. My boss would be pissed.

In an effort to keep my job, I begin with the "bar stool" fit because that's what they want. I then tell them to come back after they've ridden 500 miles for "adjustment". Problem is, they don't come back. I feel personally responsible for unleashing evil upon the world - it's as if I am doomed to give birth to ugly children daily.

What should I do? Is it possible to fit people properly right out of the gate if you educate them in the process? If so, of what does such an education consist?

Regards,

Caleb

As someone who knows barely more than squat about bike fit, but knows a good bit about out of shape, increasingly fat, white dudes, I'll offer this. Get them set up so that they're comfortable enough to enjoy riding the damn thing. This might mean getting them on a less racy bike at first, so that it'll handle right when its set up for them to be comfortable - you're gonna have to get some weight on that front wheel SOMEhow. Then they might ride it enough to get less fat and in-shape enough to care if its set up for maximum efficiency. And they might come back to get re-setup or possibly upgrade to a bike that their new body is more suited for. But if you set it up in a jerk-approved manner right off the bat, they're gonna stop riding after 10 miles and probably not start again. And they won't come back and buy bibs and helmets and socks and tubes and other high-margin items.

-Ray

[swoop]

you gotta work with where they're at and not where you're at (or face some serious hostility).

(memories of eddie van halen riding a new kestrel on pch with the bars flipped back upside down when people that didn't know bikes thought kestrels were good bikes).

fit them the right way. there's a lot of functional range in right. in the end.. its just a bike and this is an escape for them. i guess people have to get the light turned on for themselves.. so long as you sell them the right size.

[caleb]

Thanks guys, so far ... no easy fix.

BTW, I originally posted this on the Jerk's board, but it was moved to the main forum.

[Tom]

Not your problem. Are you setting them up with a fit that works for their fitness, body type and goals? Perhaps you can't ram a large round peg into a long and low hole. Are they happy customers? Get them as happy as you can. Leave the door open for a dialog. Do they show up at the shop again to buy other stuff? If they do, ask them how the riding's going. Ask them if they've done any events. Get them talking. That's your opportunity.

[sbornia]

If you and your coworkers had the time, you could call some/all of these customers 60-90 days after their first fittings to invite them back to the shop for a checkup. At a minimum, it would show customers that you care, and your boss can't argue with that. If the shop has a computer with a calendar program on it, that's an easy way to schedule these calls.

[Dave]

I can dig your your problem, do what is right or what makes others happy...not always the same.

I am not a business cat, but I do pretend on line. I have done a few fittings of my own (I was fitted a few times) and know that it takes some time, hour plus for a decent one. In that time talk to the cat about ideas you have and how he/she could progress to a better/different fit.

Treat the customer like they are special and getting something for nothing. Tell them you are offering them a secret special to come back in and you can "look" at how they have progressed and make and adjustment.

If you build a positive experience in with these cats word of mouth will bring you more customers as well as them back for you to help. If helping them is truly what you want.

You can generate a good name for yourself and for the shop. Once this positive karma happens you will have a greater respect form your boss and have the experience to help others see.

Give cats the idea they are getting more then the other guy and try to remember first names. It can be a huge skill to master.

work with others and it will be easier for you to guide them as you see fit. no pun intended.

[gt6267a]

does your store offer free service for a year, a tune up, something that brings people back into the shop? if so, that's a great time to say, "how is it going and let's look at the fit now ... "

another perspective ... when a person walks in the door to buy a bike their enthusiam for the effort is probably high. capture that. take them riding with you and show them cycling and at a level that won't be craptastic for them. maybe a sat morning event where you show people how to change a tire and then ride to a coffee shop and back. as the jerk was talking about in one of his threads, create an environment of cycling. it will create more than sales.

[Catulle]

It's a bike for a fat rich wasp, it's not religion or sex or something. What do you care? Make your money and smile.

[jerk]

Dear Jerk,

I work part time in a bike shop, and I fit people on road bikes as a regular part of that job.

Your views about bike fit are, sir, entirely correct. The problem is, if I were to put them into practice, I would lose my job. Our client base is fat, out of shape, rich, white dudes (a whole other issue). If I set them up properly, our customers would walk. My boss would be pissed.

In an effort to keep my job, I begin with the "bar stool" fit because that's what they want. I then tell them to come back after they've ridden 500 miles for "adjustment". Problem is, they don't come back. I feel personally responsible for unleashing evil upon the world - it's as if I am doomed to give birth to ugly children daily.

What should I do? Is it possible to fit people properly right out of the gate if you educate them in the process? If so, of what does such an education consist?

Regards,

Caleb

caleb-

choose your battles and fit people for riding their bikes not sitting on them in a stagnant environment on a trainer. if you have never ridden a bike before; its not going to be comfortable in the beginning; just position them so they are using their most powerful muscles in their bodies to pedal the bike; have plenty of weight on their feet; ensure the core is doing its job and send'em, on their way. the vast majority of people i "fit" (and i hate that term) are beginners and most of'em look more like pucci than petacchi; but they all leave with road bikes that ride right.

fasterbackwards!!!! doesn't work. the vast majority of people taking up cycling can assume a comfortable position....a road bike is designed by its very nature to be the most comfortable and efficient style of bicycle for long rides over varied paved terrain.

imagine for a second a parrallel world where everyone was into personal hour records. would you fit everyone into the superman or the egg position? no. there are some people just physically incapable of riding in that position; there are far fewer who are physically incapable of riding a proper roadbike; they are out there though. they just ain't most of your customers no matter which way your demographic slices.

jerk

[Sandy]

Dear Jerk,

I work part time in a bike shop, and I fit people on road bikes as a regular part of that job.

Your views about bike fit are, sir, entirely correct. The problem is, if I were to put them into practice, I would lose my job. Our client base is fat, out of shape, rich, white dudes (a whole other issue). If I set them up properly, our customers would walk. My boss would be pissed.

In an effort to keep my job, I begin with the "bar stool" fit because that's what they want. I then tell them to come back after they've ridden 500 miles for "adjustment". Problem is, they don't come back. I feel personally responsible for unleashing evil upon the world - it's as if I am doomed to give birth to ugly children daily.

What should I do? Is it possible to fit people properly right out of the gate if you educate them in the process? If so, of what does such an education consist?

Regards,

Caleb

How about directing them to bike models that you think would fit them best at their present level of cycling abilities and fitness? Try to rationally explain why such a model would be best for them at the present time. Clearly some road bikes are not nearly as aggressively designed as others and the novice would not know that by simply looking at a bike. You be the teacher to explain what model and why. Also what about selling a bike to them which has some genuine flxibility in its design so that one can easily make changes as the cyclist evolves? Using forks that have longer steerer tubes with spacers above and below the stem, seat posts and saddles that allow more fore-aft movement in the future, handlbars with moderate reach and drop that could be replaced in the future,... I would think that you could be quite creative in helping pick a model that is best suited and for a model that is chosen to be sure that there is flexibility built in for future changes. You could do more than you probably think.


Sandy

[Sandy]

PS- I don't think that you can teach anyone to teach. Either you can or you can't. Either you have that innate ability or you don't. You have to know the subject matter and then you have to be able to adequately explain it to others at the level at which they will be able understand and assimilate it. Many have the former. Fewer have the latter ability.


Sandy

[LegendRider]

It's a bike for a fat rich wasp, it's not religion or sex or something. What do you care? Make your money and smile.

Why are you so hostile?

[Too Tall]

Is a short test ride with these customers out of the question?

[WadePatton]

Okay, I'm assuming these folks want the cool bikes and your shop had rather sell the cool bikes. Therefore they're not buying entry-level stuff and coming back every few months to upgrade to the next level-giving refit opportunities.

How about making a speech or statement to the effect that cycling fit is dynamic and will change with conditioning and experience--and that minor refitting is free?.

You'll have to repeat this several times and still only a few will get it.

The call-back approach is great and ride-with is of course always best.

[Tom]

How about making a speech or statement to the effect that cycling fit is dynamic and will change with conditioning and experience--and that minor refitting is free?.

You'll have to repeat this several times and still only a few will get it.

The call-back approach is great and ride-with is of course always best.

The thing you have to be careful about there is the reaction that you're trying to sell them the next bike while you're selling them this one.

The call back, remembering their name, riding with them if possible, excellent ideas. Wish I had thought to mention that.

I clearly don't know how, and where the limits of this kind of thing are, but while you're setting them up and letting them know that their position will change with conditioning and experience also explain how you're setting the bike up so they, with your help if they want it, can change things so the one bike can adapt to their changes over time.

[lex]

Also dont forget to ask them questions about what they plan on useing the bike for. The more info you have at your desposial about that specific customer the more reliable your sugestions will be.
Take notes from doctors about communicating what to expect (Type, level and duration of discomfort) Tell them there ass is going to hurt after the first few rides but if you keep them short and frequent (every other day) that pain will go away and so on.
Comfort and enjoyment are the keys for beginners. If they have a good experience chances are they'll keep it up and be back with there wallets open.

[swoop]

this really about the fact that a bike is an emotional purchase for many a customer.... and just like what happened here when we talked about cycling versus bike riding... when you confront passion and desire with the concept that there's even a right or wrong way to sit on the thing.. and that maybe the right way feels completely foreign at first...
that the customer loses interest very quickly. we buy (instant) gratification.

and so i think the skill really belongs to the guy in the shop, in understanding the purchase from the customers point of view... some folks are curious and some aren't and i guess that's the dance.

as a salesman you have a lot to offer as an educator, you're a resource... but, what's that saying? you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
its got to be a tough dance to do day in and day out. just do the good work... and don't get sucked in... but don't sell someone a fit you can't live with....

[GrantM]

this really about the fact that a bike is an emotional purchase for many a customer....

more true words have never been spoken...

with my retailer's hat on...
The majority of riders are on a far more 'racy' bike than their riding style would dictate.
The emotional connection/baggage is what I call the "pro tour syndrome". (will need a new
name next year.) Heck, sometimes it's hard enough to avoid the blow back of suggesting
a Roubaix/Synapse/Pilot type bike to a rider buying their first road bike in 25 years!
It's like you just told them their pro contract isn't going to happen, the team has folded,
and the DS go fired.

-g

[GrantM]

Also dont forget to ask them questions about what they plan on using the bike for. .

and when they say 30 mile rides 2 or 3 times a week...
but they want a ProTour bike?

-g