Jonathan Greene Cycles

[Jonathan]

J-
any thought into custom dropouts? isp? lugs?
so many builders trying to differentiate from one another. whats your thought?

Darren, I'm just tryiing to nail the basics. A few guys have been a big influence on me because their bikes don't have all that stuff and they stand out. Mike Z is like that, his bikes are just perfect in styling and execution and his additions are functional. I also don't have much of a art background. Before I switched my undergrad work to finance i was a senior in the engineering program. Unfortunately that's how I'm inclined to see things.

I would like to add to the available pool of frame parts one day. I'm still searching for perfection in a fork crown.

[Jonathan]

Yo JG,

Let's talk paint. What's the one quart of paint you wish you never owned? What part of painting do you dig the most? Masking- are you a tape guy or liquid latex? Final clears- reduced or straight up? Installing decals- piece of cake or necessary evil? Masked head tubes- bottom of the lug edge, top of the lug edge or split the middle? Base coat or single single stage?

Curt, you could have been a gunner in the miltary.

yellow, it's caused me more headaches on lug edges than any other. Peter Weigle helped fix that. The good news is that it happened 4-5 years ago.

I like wet sanding when I'm not rushed and in the mood. It's good for the nerves. i also like seeing someone else's frame stripped. It's been a priveledge to see a sachs, redk, columbine,cuevas naked. It's another reason I like painting my own frames. Sending a frame off to a pro like you would feel like taking my clothes off in front of a woman for the first time.

Making tape, blue or green 3m. I can't tell a difference. I grab the roll the dog has not chewed on.

I reduce the living hell out of the final clears. I reduce everything, it's just a matter of how much. Florida can be hot and my booth is not climate controlled so I thin stuff pretty good.

Good fresh decals are a pleasure. Gary P made mine and they are awesome. When i do a repaint I really get nervous if the customer is supplying the decals. You don't really know how they've been stored and can be 20 years old as you know.

I mask at the bottom of the lug edge mostly.I wish there was a method that was easy and fool proof. I'm banging my head against the wall on a job right now. I use the normal tricks/tools to split the lug edge if there is enough there.

I mostly paint with imron 5.0 over ppg epoxy primer. The ppg guys really work with me so I may start using their stuff or buying hok from them. The single stage imron works so well though, I reduce it pretty good too.

thanks for asking.

[jerk]

jon-
you come to framebuilding from both a racing and vintage background. what are the pitfalls of each of those fetishes when it comes to them informing your desire to build the best bikes you can? and to follow up what have you learned from great vintage bikes and great modern race bikes that inform your builds?

[Jonathan]

jon-
you come to framebuilding from both a racing and vintage background. what are the pitfalls of each of those fetishes when it comes to them informing your desire to build the best bikes you can? and to follow up what have you learned from great vintage bikes and great modern race bikes that inform your builds?

I like how clean the Colanago's, Derosa'a, Masi's etc from the 70's looked and i guess the geometry I like many people would consder Italian but I've only known it as proper. My eye still is caught by those bikes. I still covet the blue mid 80's DeRosa SLX I wanted as a junior. I hate to keep mentioning other builders but I really look around right now at what I think is right for me and I'm drawn to Gaulzetti's, Sachs, Goodriches because the really good stuff is understated. A great modern race bike imho should be relatively simple, light and affordable. Something you shouldn't have to worry about putting on a bike rack or putting a hose to it.
I'm practical that way. Nice paint shouldn't be a problem because you can always spray more.

I want to be careful now because vintage guys are my friends, but i think they sometimes obsess about lug curlies, fancy paint etc to the point they lose site of the bike as an object that has a purpose. They also have a strong streak of denial wrt modern components and technology which i find interesting because since the first bicycle was raced modifications and improvements have been sought to make them better. I love annecdotes about what the brits did for their beloved TT's. Things evolved prior and after the 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's so I don't understand how some cats seem to put too much stock in a golden age imho. When you've stripped and painted a few you realise quick there is quite a bit of myth with these frames. So like I said above in a previous question I don't think any modern bike with good wheels, components etc will determine a race but bikes without question are better now than they have ever been and i think it's great to keep trying to make them better.

The pitfalls of seeing things like a racer is that I sometimes lose site that anyone who rides a bike is cool. You should see the old broads who ride trikes around retirement communities here. They could be in a golf cart so i think it's cool they ride those three wheelers. I'd like to see riders lose weight, stretch to touch their toes and all that, but anyone who rides helps all of us gain visibility. If your bars are high because they really have to be I can be ok with that, but please lower your saddle so your ass does not rock side to side. I used to think that all you needed on a bike ride will fit in a jersey pockey (I still do actually) but I'm open to the idea that not eveyone has fl weather and sometimes a larger bag is handy and really it's all good. It would be hard to go wrong if you just copied our friend Dr. Brooks. I don't really want to build the bikes that maybe are more suited to these riders, but I love looking at them. When I took the class with Doug Fattic, NAHBS award winner Mitch Pryor was in the class too. Mitch said then he wanted to build practical bikes that maybe were perfect for portland. I remember thinking how odd it was that someone would build one off commuters. Now I think it's awesome and love looking at those bikes. In a few weeks I hope to visit the bike show at the MAD, I'll bet I walk past the race bikes and go straight for the ANT's.

good question, thanks craig.

[davids]

Jonathan,

I have to confess I've been poking around your Flickr site, looking at your work. (Nice stuff!) One thing I noticed is that you've used a number of different lug sets. And you just wrote that you're still looking for that perfect fork crown. So two questions:

Why do you build with lugs?

What do you look for in a lug, in terms of function, style, etc?

[Jonathan]

Jonathan,

I have to confess I've been poking around your Flickr site, looking at your work. (Nice stuff!) One thing I noticed is that you've used a number of different lug sets. And you just wrote that you're still looking for that perfect fork crown. So two questions:

Why do you build with lugs?

What do you look for in a lug, in terms of function, style, etc?

the choice to use lugs was really an entry point. It's a good solid way to join tubes that offers the builder the opportunity to customize or not. I have plans to take a 3 day tig welding class with the experimental aircraft association because I'd like be able to tig or at least fabricate some stuff. I've also recently met a local guy who used carbon in defense applications and he's interested in helping out doing some carbon joining. So I'm not really married to lugs, I just like them.

As far as what I look for in a lug of course the pipes have to be sized for the lug and the angles have to be close. I prefer simple. I don't as of now carve my own details so I've come to like the sachs offerings. I also use mostly pegorichie tubes so the one stop shopping is nice and shipping is fast on the east coast I also like Dazza's mini6 lugset. I hear many people say that lugged bikes should have level top tubes but I really think smaller frame benefit aesthetically from a sloping tt. Really Big bikes start looking like playgroud equiptment though with them., that's all IMHO though and my own aesthetic sense. You might also be referring to the frame I just built with the "webbed" lugs. I'm not really a fan of the look but a lot of people really like it. I'm wanting to concentrate the look of my bikes so I doubt I'll do more of those.

[Shinomaster]

Jon,

Do you have any interest in making profit on frames, or do you just want to cover costs?

[Jonathan]

Jon,



Do you have any interest in making profit on frames, or do you just want to cover costs?

Shino
I intend to profit from my time. I'd like to get fair compensation for what I do even though profit is not the first motive. Ultimately, like everyone else I'd like to have my work so well recieved that I'd be able to charge at the top of the scale or have tshirts flying off the shelves (that last part was a joke). I am making sure I don't get too tooled up or get ahead of myself. This is a business for me and I am using my experience in treating it as such.

Thanks for that.

Jonathan

[ron l edmiston]

my bud,

do you ever feel slighted or maintain a hunger for not having been in the production mode, or mass built frame environment ... relative to learning on your own?

ronnie

[Jonathan]

my bud,

do you ever feel slighted or maintain a hunger for not having been in the production mode, or mass built frame environment ... relative to learning on your own?

ronnie

yes very much. I wish I had that experience or the experience to draw on that comes from doing production. I'm very interested in how others feel about this too.

I took a class that taught me how to build one frame, but I had to come home and refine my processes for the tools I have on hand and the method that's repeatable for me. It took 3 years of on and off. I've never seen someone else who is doing this for a living build a frame though. Think about what that means for every other career. I build a vehicle that navigates in traffic without having seen it done by someone who has real experience. It's stunning to type. Moving on, my tricks and short cuts work for me, but I'm curious to see what others do. Forums like this one and the friday night lights are great for learning from others, but direct communication is so much better. I'd sweep floors silently to be able to watch some full time guys build a frame. I'm one of 4-5 guys in FL doing this and we basically don't communicate, at least I dont with anyone other than Villin in Gainesville. I'd like to have more close in proximity industry friends, contacts or pals. Even living around Boston or Portland would be nice for that.

thanks for the question, it cuts pretty deep and maybe will draw some comments.

[ron l edmiston]

great response ----
iv'e swept a few floors in my corporate life, in order to learn from a "master marketing craftsman.."

ronnie

[ron l edmiston]

"marvin gaye," a little mental telepathy --- that yo buildin somethin "show & go" in area 51 --- any truth to that "grape vine..."

[spopepro]

Jonathan,

Cool story so far. I think it's awesome that you are working with junior racers.

Hopefully I can phrase this in the right way... While framebulders tend to be lone wolves naturally, do you ever feel out of place in the framebuilding community because of your successful background in finance? It appears that many who are now drawn to the field are from places where a certain mistrust and or rejection of the corporate world is commonplace.

[Jonathan]

Jonathan,

Cool story so far. I think it's awesome that you are working with junior racers.

Hopefully I can phrase this in the right way... While framebulders tend to be lone wolves naturally, do you ever feel out of place in the framebuilding community because of your successful background in finance? It appears that many who are now drawn to the field are from places where a certain mistrust and or rejection of the corporate world is commonplace.

great question. I think it's safe to assume I have a certain something I feel about the corp world. I am a very contrarian investor by nature so it would be safe to say I have some mistrust too and I feel it is a good thing for my clients, both in finance and framebuilding. As to your question I really don't feel out of place. I feel more comfortable with a torch in my hand or hanging out with my team than I do on the golf course with other financial advisors. I've also met so many helpful and nice people it's hard not to feel welcome. Smoked out really has opened my eyes to the other people doing this. I thought maybe my story was a bit unique, but all of us have stories that inspire me. I hope my background will be a draw to some people. What do you think?

Thanks for the comment on the Juniors. I enjoy it a bunch and look forward to when my own kids will race.

[Jonathan]

"marvin gaye," a little mental telepathy --- that yo buildin somethin "show & go" in area 51 --- any truth to that "grape vine..."

I'm building a track bike now that will be to show this fall at the cross races. My main marketing expense will be a tent and 2-3 bikes that roll with me on weekends.

[spopepro]

...I hope my background will be a draw to some people. What do you think?...

I think diversity is any field is awesome, and certainly your and all the smoked out stories illustrate that there isn't necessarily a "type", and that's a good thing. I think it will be a benefit to both the profession and customers as sales transactions, especially for custom solutions, seem to be made more on relationships and personal connection than the details of the terms (as I am sure you know very well).

[junior2189]

I'm building a track bike now that will be to show this fall at the cross races. My main marketing expense will be a tent and 2-3 bikes that roll with me on weekends.

if we travel together do i have bring this stuff with us?
JUNIOR

[DCT]

jon

what bike will you be riding at d2r2?

[Jonathan]

jon

what bike will you be riding at d2r2?

D,
funny you should ask. I've been working overtime on my overtime to build myself a cross bike for the fall. I'll have that at Deerfield as well as some good brew bro.

[luigi]

Jonathan, you built a bike for you Dad. How did you determine the size and geometry for that bike? As I recall, it was a surprise. Lou