i presume 20mm is meant here.20 CM
maybe we should switch to esperanto.
i presume 20mm is meant here.20 CM
maybe we should switch to esperanto.
Just dug out the article Winter 2008. The article actually compared bar width and front end geometry and wheel flop over several decades 30's, 40's until today. There are diagrams of bikes from a 1927 TdF bike to Coppi's 1949 Bianchi, and Merckx 1974 DeRosa. Seems (according to the article) trends in bar width generally matched trends in front end geometry. The conclusion if I take it correctly was that the wider bars currently used where a good match to current geometry.
I assume that you are asking this question to further the public discussion....because nobody knows more about randonneuring equipment than Peter weigle, andI am sure that you have had this discussion with him. I think that for most people today, the idea of a randonneur bike is appealing-not for the use in the events for which it was intended- but as a 'useful ownership' reason. For a well designed example-like something from Weigle or Goodrich- there is a certain appeal to having all of the accoutrements* custom made and permanently affixed to the bike in a way that clearly demonstartes craftsmanship and that somebody thought it out. This as opposed to bikes made for a similar purpose-such as a Rivendell..a company that openly advocates the use of zip ties As an aside on the subject of shit being attached to the bike with zip ties, bungee cords, masking tape, suction cups, etc....My uinderstanding of the bike genre is that there was a day when people used to show up at the events with said shit (lights, fenders etc) tacked on the bike in all manner of inelegant ways (history is repeating itself0 This violated the sense ofaesthetic of the fathers of the day (sort of like the cool kids lunch table here) and they made a ruling that all accessories had to be permanently fitted to the bike. this gave rise to the constructeur who was able to make such custom fittings. Part of the the appeal of these bikes is that nobody has ever done the custom fittings better....whenever a builder tries to stary far from those original designs, they look like shit. this is where Weigle and Goodrich hit it out of the park. As for the geometry of those bikes, the original makers also got that right-for their time and their roads. There is no question that an old Singer or Herse did its intended job beautifully....but their geometries changed over the years as welll to match improving road conditions So, while I understand the appeal of the genre, I don't understand the fetish of freezing the evolution of bike geometry on a 1963 Singer metric-and then applying that metric to racing bikes in 2010
*Thanks, this is worth repeating that I personally appreciate everyone for maintaining discussions which are intimate, lively and mostly civil.
Y'all rock.
Peace, Josh
Josh Simonds
www.nixfrixshun.com
www.facebook.com/NFSspeedshop
www.bicycle-coach.com
Vsalon Fromage De Tête
several have replied to my post from last night but i'll reply to this -
yes - that is why i asked.
yes - we have routinely chatted about this (the french thing) since the 90s when we'd carpool our bicycles to various shows and swap meets atmo. peter's frames are masterfully crafted, and he singlehandedly resuscitated this interest folks have in recreating a type of bicycle that was more at home in the era in which it was born. and i will add - my questions and posts have no ties to aesthetics; i am here asking about design elements, or - as some would call it - geometry.because nobody knows more about randonneuring equipment than Peter weigle, andI am sure that you have had this discussion with him.
agreed.I think that for most people today, the idea of a randonneur bike is appealing-not for the use in the events for which it was intended- but as a 'useful ownership' reason.
stop that.<snip> ...the sense ofaesthetic of the fathers of the day (sort of like the cool kids lunch table here)
we are all cool here atmo.
that was my point atmo.So, while I understand the appeal of the genre, I don't understand the fetish of freezing the evolution of bike geometry on a 1963 Singer metric-and then applying that metric to racing bikes in 2010
14 pages? Yikes!
In Velocipede fashion, this thread has gone from reacting directly to Jan's review and side-bars Re: the Love#3 to a wide ranging discussion of bike usages, characteristics, fit, aesthetics, history, riding conditions, etc. For the most part, we have kept things civil and quite informative.
Jeff and I seem to build quite a few "Brevet" style bikes here (about 10% of our steel bikes) and most of them are actually ridden in modern Brevet events. For some reason, we don't get requests for these bikes from folks who don't plan on riding the crap out of them in any and all conditions. Maybe our prices discourage posers ... who knows. It's kind of nice for us as we end up without any "builders' guilt" for making beautiful bikes that we know won't be really used hard. The old "French" geometry does have its place. It does work beautifully on a bike appropriately equipped and used. It is NOT the answer to all of cycling any more than Marty Nothstein's sprint bike is appropriate for anything other than track sprinting.
TT and the Mods. have given us a place to vent, support each other, learn and teach. Be sure to think of them when you log in each day.
Tom Kellogg
Rides bikes, used to make 'em too.
Spectrum-Cycles.com
Butted Ti Road, Reynolds UL, Di2, QuarQ, Conour lite, SP Zero
Steel Cross, X-7, Crank Bros, Concour Lite, Nemesis, Grifo
Steel Piste, D-A Piste, PD-7400, Concour lite, Zipp 404
http://kapelmuurindependent.be
Shortest TFC Member (5'6 3/4") & shrinking
Folks, I'm closing this thread and encourage you to start a new one. The topic ran it's course and can be found in WIKI for future reference.
Peace, Josh
Josh Simonds
www.nixfrixshun.com
www.facebook.com/NFSspeedshop
www.bicycle-coach.com
Vsalon Fromage De Tête
Link for future reference in wiki: http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum...tml#post209297
Josh Simonds
www.nixfrixshun.com
www.facebook.com/NFSspeedshop
www.bicycle-coach.com
Vsalon Fromage De Tête
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