OT: Shared sacrifice...

[ludedude]

From a man who I suppose knows a thing or two about money, taxes, and investments:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1

[Too Tall]

Pls. keep it civil.

[acotts]

f@%#$ civility. I am taking my cash to my new lawless island and hunting some mother fuggin man!

Silicon Valley billionaire funding creation of artificial libertarian islands | The Lookout - Yahoo! News

[cdimattio]

From a man who I suppose knows a thing or two about money, taxes, and investments:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html?_r=1

Warren Buffett is an investor with superior stock-picking skill that allows him to identify undervalued securities and thus obtain risk-adjusted positive abnormal returns. I am not sure that would bestow expertise in macroeconomics or taxation.

The complexity of the US tax code alone creates a significant burden on society. Think of the huge industry involved in taxation (lawyers and accountants and opportunity cost wasted inside and outside the US government). There is a cost to complexity we all pay becasue fewer dollars end up actually funding the services we need. I figure "Shared sacrifice" would be a simple flat tax on everyone with a income threshold. This would apply to every source of income.

Today we have a system where 46% of the population pays no federal tax and the very wealthy dodge taxes via many strategies but a favorite is re-structuring compensation as capital gains. The guys in the middle cashing a paycheck have no place to hide and carry the burden. Punitive progressive rates compounded by the AMT punish the guy with a paycheck. You can create a 75% tax bracket, and the 'super rich' will never pay it and just channel more earnings into 'capital gains'

The inevitable national political class war of rhetoric is coming, but the real answer seems to be taxation simplification and fairness.

[El Chaba]

Warren Buffett (no relation to Jimmy) is a tool. if his comments are based on principle, why doesn't he set an example by sending the federal government a check for $10 billion?...

[jitahs]

Buffett isn't a tool, he's a very smart business man who doesn't believe the gov't is as smart. He's right of course, it's his money. BTW he plans on giving away nearly everything and has started to do so.

Good comment cdimattio.

[Christian Fox]

Warren Buffett (no relation to Jimmy) is a tool. if his comments are based on principle, why doesn't he set an example by sending the federal government a check for $10 billion?...

well said. Buffet's been saying this for a while now, but he conveniently waited until he became a billionaire. He is free to send in more, or, if he likes, fire the army of lawyers and accountants on his staff whose sole purpose in life is to lower his marginal tax rate. The US has an incredibly skewed tax system where a very small % carry a huge % of the tax burden. A flatter, but still progressive tax system, where EVERYONE pays at least SOMETHING whould be a step in the right direction.

[El Chaba]

well said. Buffet's been saying this for a while now, but he conveniently waited until he became a billionaire. He is free to send in more, or, if he likes, fire the army of lawyers and accountants on his staff whose sole purpose in life is to lower his marginal tax rate. The US has an incredibly skewed tax system where a very small % carry a huge % of the tax burden. A flatter, but still progressive tax system, where EVERYONE pays at least SOMETHING whould be a step in the right direction.

Steve Forbes shook the earth inside the beltway when he ran for president (how many years ago?) by proposing a flat tax. The inside establishment-that is both major parties- fouled their Brooks Brothers suits at the suggestion as it pointed a dagger directly at the heart of the current system of crony capitalism. The tax code is the method by which favoritism is shown.

[acotts]

Warren Buffett (no relation to Jimmy) is a tool. if his comments are based on principle, why doesn't he set an example by sending the federal government a check for $10 billion?...

...they guy did donate 42 billion to the Gates Foundation...85% of his net wealth. I would call that a shared sacrifice.I think that was a pretty good example to set.

[RJR]

1. Warren has some great attorneys who ensure he pays less than even the typical "super-rich." Nothing in the tax code requires him to take all available deductions.
2. He is donating a huge amount to charity; for that he should be admired. However, he said explicitly that he's doing so in part to shelter it from taxation.
3. Even if you confiscated ALL the wealth of the wealthiest 'mericans it wouldn't touch our debt/deficit problems.

[Nierman]

He must have just watched Citizen Kane on TCM again.

rosebud.jpg

[acotts]

I say we lock this thread now. It already sucks.

[weiwentg]

Buffett himself was civil, and I'm going to contribute in the same vein.

shoney's comment is incorrect in that there are a lot of types of taxes - federal income, state income, sales tax, property tax, etc. While about half of Americans don't pay federal income tax, only about 10 percent or so of all Americans pay no net income or payroll taxes (iirc - and the share of Americans paying no net taxes after you count sales, property, cellphone and other taxes would be even lower. Btw, many of the folks paying no net income taxes are retired and on Social Security, so they would have a lot less income. IOW, the vast majority of us all pay something.

I believe there's another error: while it's true that a small percentage of Americans pay a large percentage of total income taxes, that's because the disparities in income and wealth are enormous. There's a lot of money sloshing around, and a highly disproportionate amount of it belongs to the already wealthy. What you want to look at is the net tax rates paid for by income. The tax system is overall progressive, but the top quintile doesn't pay a very much higher rate than the fourth quintile, and the top 1 percent or half a percent pay significantly lower than the rest of the top quintile (because when you're that rich, much of your income is probably capital gains or dividends, which are taxed at low rates).

One error that Buffett makes, imo, is that he says that nobody else should have their taxes raised. In reality, the gap between what we're spending and what we're taking in is large enough that I think we also need to tax the middle class (although I fully agree with him that the wealthiest should pay much more than they do now). And, of course, we need to get healthcare costs under control, because they're the main thing that's bankrupting us. Arguing that Buffett's free to send in a check to the Treasury misses the point - the point is that the current system is set up such that most people in his situation have to cut relatively small checks to the Treasury, and that it's justifiable to fix that situation. Voluntary efforts won't do it.

[El Chaba]

...they guy did donate 42 billion to the Gates Foundation...85% of his net wealth. I would call that a shared sacrifice.I think that was a pretty good example to set.

Clearly he thinks that this foundation is a more efficient way of having his money "do good" than to filter it through the federal government. He is a tool.

[acotts]

so much hostility...

[El Chaba]

Let me go a step further....Since we create money out of thin air anyway via the federal reserve and loan it into existence, there is no need whatsoever to have a tax system anyway. At the end of each year, the Treasury could just print as much money as was needed to pay the bills and have the Fed loan it into circulation. It would be inflationary-of course- but every dollar would be devalued equally....So the tax of inflation would be perfectly and directly proportional to the amount of wealth that an individual holds! The problem, of course, is that there would be no way for the corruptocrats to grant favors via the tax code to their cronies...while at the same time, ensure the suppression of the middle class through the confiscation of a disproportionate portion of their wealth for redistribution to the upper classes (cronies) or lower classes who pose no threat to the power structure.

[acotts]

I see, you are one of them.

Got it.

You should think about moving to one of the new libertarian islands I linked to above. You might find the fiscal politics more to your liking than our Keyensian approach.

[the bottle ride]

Buffett isn't a tool, he's a very smart business man who doesn't believe the gov't is as smart. He's right of course, it's his money. BTW he plans on giving away nearly everything and has started to do so.

Good comment cdimattio.

Agree with Jitahs and cdimattio is so on the freaking money: I could not say it any better myself. From my professional experience, the wealthiest american are able to find tax loops that make it possible to pay zero taxes. In fact, I worked briefly for a firm that specialized in this and it was mind boggling.

I am also in favor of repealing the capital gains tax- I think we are the only G20 country that has a cap gains tax.

Buffet (not Jimmy) is ok in my book- he is a human and gets the suffering of the general population and is not your typical excessive PM.

[TMB]

Agree with Jitahs and cdimattio is so on the freaking money: I could not say it any better myself. From my professional experience, the wealthiest american are able to find tax loops that make it possible to pay zero taxes. In fact, I worked briefly for a firm that specialized in this and it was mind boggling.

I am also in favor of repealing the capital gains tax- I think we are the only G20 country that has a cap gains tax.

Buffet (not Jimmy) is ok in my book- he is a human and gets the suffering of the general population and is not your typical excessive PM.

And all these years I have been filing my (non American) taxes and taking advantage of the capital gains tax rates.

Clearly I have been doing it wrong.

For the record the UK and the Republic of Ireland also have capital gains taxes that are taxed at a lower rate then ordinary income.

http://www.accf.org/publications/89/...ains-tax-rates

[SteveP]

i just did a google search and found a country that has no taxes! awesome!
im on the way there...
anyone know what somalia is like in september?
darren