I am a writer/poet, and some of my favorite moments in reading are when I discover something wonderful and can hardly sleep that night thinking either "How did he do that?" or "That's what I want to do!" (or start out to do and then go somewhere else with it.)
Which framebuilders have done that for you? Made you lose sleep in a happy way, with new found inspiration?
I know that all artists and artisans have many, so it goes without saying that you would be giving just a sampling, if you wanted to do that - but I am very curious.
Thank you for all the bikes that have enriched my life,
Dario, what's your take on a properly fitted bike? Steve Hampsten, for example, fits a bike around the stem. From the Hampsten website:
A properly fitted bicycle is centered on the stem, which we think of in terms of sizes: small (100-105mm, for frames in the 50-54cm range), medium (110-120mm, for 54.5-57cm range), and large (120-130mm, for 57.5cm and up range). A bicycle built around the proper stem length – giving correct reach – will have optimal weight distribution and handling characteristics. We believe that the cure for a poorly fitting bicycle is not a longer/shorter stem but rather a well-built frame using the correct length stem.
I ask because while I love my 54 Responsorium (with a 110mm stem), I'm pretty sure I could also fit a 52 or 53 mated to a longer stem. I would still have the same saddle setback, saddle-to-bar reach and drop. Weight distribution and handling would probably differ slightly though. So, yeah, with clients who can fit more than one frame size comfortably, how do you decide which size is optimal?
Thanks!
The choice of the correct geometry for the frame is always a difficult choice, my opinion is that this is a mix between calculation , experience and feeling of the framebuilder , we must distinguish between choice of the frame geometry and bicycle fitting, in the first case the greater responsibility is by the framebuilder in the second case we need a great collaboration from who will use the bike.
I believe that if a customer chooses to buy a stock frame is more important to consider the length of the top tube and not the lenght of the seat tube ..
We must also say that sometimes we are forced to compromise to design the correct geometry, especially for small frames, sometimes is a good choice to stretch the top tube and choose a shortest stem rather than make bad head angles.
I believe there are more ways to get the right determination of geometry for a client, one of these may be the Steve way .
When I have the chance to meet the customer or I have body sizes, i starting to find the the correct angle of the seat tube , and then choose the correct length of the top tube and after that i choose the best combination between head angle\fork rake to get the best possible handling and balancing of the bike. Of course the stem is a part of the joke .
regarding your specific cases I think it's hard to find a good feeling with three different lenght of the top tube , it is true that you can adjust the lenght of the stem to have the same contact point but moving the weight foward and reward tespect to the front axle have an influence of the balance of the bike, I believe that there is one frame that you feel better than the other two .
ciao
d
Information just for the users of this thread....Dario calls me at the phone a few hours ago, asking me if his replies and thoughts are clear (he's worried in particular about his englishi mine is worst!!!) ; well after reading all his post in this section I can say, dear Dario, no matter what language you use....when your spirit is clear people understand everything about you and your crafts! I don't know if you agree with me....
I absolutely love the painting on your frames. Do you ever just paint on canvas or paper to make "art" for the sake of making art? How did your paint-jobs become so painterly?
Warm regards,
Shinomaster
Hello
Yes, I confess that when I am free I paint or drawing on paper, just for me , just for the pleasure of painting, I confess that I am ashamed a bit, I am very critical with myself and many times I do not like what I do.
The frames are very different from the paper.
I have started to change my paintscheme following my interest in the art of the end of last century, I was always interested and excited for the abstract expressionism of the 50's e 60's but also pop art, the technique of the sign, Aboriginal art, and the sign of the Japanese ideograms.
one day I thought that I could use the surface of the frame in a different way from what i had been done until then, i.e. classical schemes ... and thats it.
ciao
d
I think you were one of the first to start using TIG. How did it come about?
Today you still braze some frames and solder most of them, what technique do you prefer?
Thanks and great work!
Ciao Lionel
I started to try to join the tubes with the tig after the mid-80's, Stelio Belletti was the first to use this technique in Italy, I don't have a favorite technique but I like to switch from one to another tecnique.
I have had interest in this technique after seeing a Specialized stumpjumper that if I remember well was built in Japan, the thing that interested me was the freedom that this process can give to the builder , any diameter , any shape in one click , just turn on the generator .
thanks
d
Dario, why isnt weight important to you? Logically isnt it faster to ride/race the lightest bike you can? What advantages does a Pegoretti frame have over a good stiff carbon frame weighing 40-50% less?
ciao,
I think the weight has a big advantage compared to other parameters of the frame , is easily measurable.
It is clear that other materials cannot compete in these terms but may offer performance and features different and better if used well.
I think even the lightweight carbon fibre frames (800/900grammi)not offer performance comparable to frames built with the same material a bitmore heavy, I think it was mainly the marketing to push the construction of frames very light than a real need.
What I tried to do was to research the best possible efficiency of the frame.
We must think of having to move a mass from a to b, but the mass is the bike and rider and the bike is about 10% of the total mass, the frame around 2% of the total mass.
I think have not a great sense to try and save 20/30% of 2% If this causes a loss of a part of the power that we put on the pedal for 70/90 times per minute.
d
ciao,
I think the weight has a big advantage compared to other parameters of the frame , is easily measurable.
It is clear that other materials cannot compete in these terms but may offer performance and features different and better if used well.
I think even the lightweight carbon fibre frames (800/900grammi)not offer performance comparable to frames built with the same material a bitmore heavy, I think it was mainly the marketing to push the construction of frames very light than a real need.
What I tried to do was to research the best possible efficiency of the frame.
We must think of having to move a mass from a to b, but the mass is the bike and rider and the bike is about 10% of the total mass, the frame around 2% of the total mass.
I think have not a great sense to try and save 20/30% of 2% If this causes a loss of a part of the power that we put on the pedal for 70/90 times per minute.
d
What Dario says is proofed by the fact that this year I've raced (in Italy we call "granfondo" amateurs racers with so many meters of elevation) with my 7,9 kilos Responsorium and, despite the fact that many people consider this bike heavy, i've never thought, during this year "oh if only I had a lighter bike"....Personally i've experienced, using Dario's Bikes, that is more important to feel confident on your bike when you turn your bars, when you come down from a mountain and, why not, when at every pedal stroke, you don't loose almost a 30% of your (in my case poor) power.
ciao,
I think the weight has a big advantage compared to other parameters of the frame , is easily measurable.
It is clear that other materials cannot compete in these terms but may offer performance and features different and better if used well.
I think even the lightweight carbon fibre frames (800/900grammi)not offer performance comparable to frames built with the same material a bitmore heavy, I think it was mainly the marketing to push the construction of frames very light than a real need.
What I tried to do was to research the best possible efficiency of the frame.
We must think of having to move a mass from a to b, but the mass is the bike and rider and the bike is about 10% of the total mass, the frame around 2% of the total mass.
I think have not a great sense to try and save 20/30% of 2% If this causes a loss of a part of the power that we put on the pedal for 70/90 times per minute.
d
Thanks Dario. I have a Marcelo (you know that boring grey one sold to a man in Kent UK, in spring) and I am very attached to it. I'm just trying to understand.
I guess I will ask the obvious question, since I have heard answers from others but not from you, and then a few of my own:
1) Dropped top tube: why, and how did you get to that choice?
2) In terms of ride quality alone, is there anything left to achieve in your chosen materials that you feel you have not yet achieved?
3) Which of your frames would you advise for a fit and light but not incredibly powerful club rider who prizes comfort and smoothness above all over 50 mile rides in rolling hills?
4) Do you feel there is a paint scheme in you that will be more satisfying than what you have done before but you have not quite found it yet?
Thank you for contributing to this forum.
ciao
the choice of lowering the horizontal tube on the frame bigger than 57 is to try to contain the possible deformations of the main triangle closing its area.
every day there is always something to learn and I believe that research is never over, there are small adjustments that we continue to do to try to get the best.
I think duende or responsorium can be a good choice
in my opinion there are two paintscheme which have marked a point of arrival,
the first was "occhi", because with occhi i can understood that I could use something real not only abstract sign , without falling into the trivial and the stencil technique was a great help, and the second was "baci" because from that moment I realized that it was not necessary to be cleaned with the colors and the sign.
lines and parts of the design was not perfectly clear, I could use shades and tones,pencil or charcoal and randomly signs , outside the rules of the symmetry something that was "politically incorrect" .
Dario, I'll explain in more detail. Suppose an rider were to purchase an race bicycle similar to any we currently see raced in Le Tour. Will that bicycle also be a good choice for training, putting in the 1000's of Kilometers necessary to prepare for racing or hard events? My personal opinion is that there is generally no difference, good race bikes are also perfect for training or getting groceries. I will admit I've considered using a bicycle with a slightly shorter top tube for heavy training. Set me straight!!!
Second, I have been a professional coach and bicycle fitter for yrs. In all the years of doing this I've never found a reason to adjust anyone's bars higher than their saddle. Can you comment as to why level bar/saddle or an appropriate amount of bar drop is the correct prescription and when is it not correct?
Thank You
Hi Josh,
here in Italy there are people who think that it is possible to build a frame more suited for uphill or one best suited for the flat road , etc. etc.
I think there is the correct frame for the rider not for the various kind of roads , in this sense I think that a frame from training should be the same of the frame for the race.
also because normally after the uphill you find the downhill .
I speak of the racing bike, which in itself is not a comfortable object , the bike is an object to make fatigue, now with a position on the bike where I can find a good compromise between respiration, aerodynamics and comfort to go faster this I believe is the right position and is definitely not a position where the handlebar is higher than the saddle.
about where must be the position of the handlebar respect the saddle i think that is an highly subjective issue and can depend on flexibility of the joints , pathological problems ability to ventilate the lungs in such a position etc.etc. in this case a good fitting performed by experts is the best solution.
in my case we must also consider my potbelly.
d
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Re: Pegoretti Cicli
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Originally Posted by xeladragon
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