Guns

[cody.wms]

You are the troll, not me.

Nope, you're the troll. Seriously. I find it really, really hard to believe that you aren't doing this on purpose.

[Ben]

By the way, this is a cool thread. When I get around to it, I'll post pics of my grandfather's Parker. It's a side-by-side field grade (I think) 12-gauge from the turn of the (last) century. He bought it when he and my grandmother were poor as all get-out. It originally had Damascus barrels, but sometime in the late '50s, he apparently put one too many rounds of modern ammunition (too much brass, I guess?) through it, and it shot a ribbon of metal curling back past his head, narrowly missing killing or seriously injuring him. Fortunately, the barrels were replaced by a very good gunsmith, but they're obviously not Damascus.

It's scarred up, and the barrels aren't original, and I guess some people would say I have what could be a very valuable gun if it were in better shape. Eff that. The things that "devalue" it -- the evidence of my grandfather's use, doing what he loved -- are the very things that make it priceless to me.

[Giff Holmquist]

Been absent for awhile, but this is a thread I can really get into as I deal with MIL/LE Equipment and weapons accessories. Below is my OD framed Glock 17. I've stippled the frame, added Hackathorn sights and Vickers mag release and slide lock. The stippling really improves the grip.

IMAG0422.jpg

[Disturbed]

Here's an evil pistol that should be banned not glorified.

Attachment 41286

Problem is that if you shoot one well enough you'll win one of these with it.

Attachment 41287

Yeah, shooting is an Olympic sport.

Oh the horror.

[ramjm_2000]

First post and it has to do with my guns!

2. Ed Brown 1911. Brown is a small builder in the same vein as many of the craftsmen on this site; his reputation for detail, extremely tight tolerances and reliability are second to none. I regularly go shooting with friends and whenever we have tactical "shoot-offs" they always ask to use my pistol. Like a fine frame, it just feels right. I wasn't crazy about the big magazine basepads so I use Wilson mags with a lower profile basepad.


Cheers!
Jason

Absolutely stunning EB 1911!!! (My attempt to get this thing back on track)

[Kumo Cycles]

My gun is bigger than your gun...

[RickM]

By the way, this is a cool thread. When I get around to it, I'll post pics of my grandfather's Parker. It's a side-by-side field grade (I think) 12-gauge from the turn of the (last) century. He bought it when he and my grandmother were poor as all get-out. It originally had Damascus barrels, but sometime in the late '50s, he apparently put one too many rounds of modern ammunition (too much brass, I guess?) through it, and it shot a ribbon of metal curling back past his head, narrowly missing killing or seriously injuring him. Fortunately, the barrels were replaced by a very good gunsmith, but they're obviously not Damascus.

It's scarred up, and the barrels aren't original, and I guess some people would say I have what could be a very valuable gun if it were in better shape. Eff that. The things that "devalue" it -- the evidence of my grandfather's use, doing what he loved -- are the very things that make it priceless to me.

Damascus barrels can't handle the presure of modern smokeless loads. Those barrels were from the black powder days. Also..is/was your Parker 2 1/2" chambered? Firing even a very low pressure 2 3/4" load thru it will be a huge accident waiting to happen. VERY low pressure smokless loads, (hand loaded..no OTC loads are low pressure enough AFAIK) can be fired in SOME damascus barrels...some folks do it..but man, I would not want to be the guinea pig on that one. You could do it if all the stars aligned and the barrel didn't blow up and wreck your face.

On Parker: My sister Nancy has my grandma's Parker DH in 28 gauge. It is a later DH model and so has modern steel barrels. This was at or near the bottom of the Parker product ladder, but is still a lovely gun.

[Ben]

Damascus barrels can't handle the presure of modern smokeless loads. Those barrels were from the black powder days. Also..is/was your Parker 2 1/2" chambered? Firing even a very low pressure 2 3/4" load thru it will be a huge accident waiting to happen. VERY low pressure smokless loads, (hand loaded..no OTC loads are low pressure enough AFAIK) can be fired in SOME damascus barrels...some folks do it..but man, I would not want to be the guinea pig on that one. You could do it if all the stars aligned and the barrel didn't blow up and wreck your face.

On Parker: My sister Nancy has my grandma's Parker DH in 28 gauge. It is a later DH model and so has modern steel barrels. This was at or near the bottom of the Parker product ladder, but is still a lovely gun.

I'm pretty sure you've described exactly what my grandfather did. It didn't kill him, but the general consensus was that it probably should have.

[Jason Musgrave]

I accidentally found a really nice walnut stock 10-22 cheap the other day. Think I'm gonna go back and pick it up. No can/bottle will be safe!

[RickM]

I accidentally found a really nice walnut stock 10-22 cheap the other day. Think I'm gonna go back and pick it up. No can/bottle will be safe!

Great gun. Another Bill Ruger gem!

[parris]

You may want to have the Parker checked out. ANY 28 gauge Parker is rare and a DH grade may be worth a substantial amount of money. also the DH grade is not a low grade Parker. I believe that the grades started with VH and went up from there. The DH is the entry to the higher grade guns of this maker and are generally sought after.

Parris

[RickM]

You may want to have the Parker checked out. ANY 28 gauge Parker is rare and a DH grade may be worth a substantial amount of money. also the DH grade is not a low grade Parker. I believe that the grades started with VH and went up from there. The DH is the entry to the higher grade guns of this maker and are generally sought after.

Parris

Thanks for the info. I expect that the gun wil stay in the family and be shot. Once or twice a year, my sis gets the urge to take a long walk and see if she can kick up a grouse.

[Bruce Day]

Damascus barrels can't handle the presure of modern smokeless loads. Those barrels were from the black powder days. Also..is/was your Parker 2 1/2" chambered? Firing even a very low pressure 2 3/4" load thru it will be a huge accident waiting to happen. VERY low pressure smokless loads, (hand loaded..no OTC loads are low pressure enough AFAIK) can be fired in SOME damascus barrels...some folks do it..but man, I would not want to be the guinea pig on that one. You could do it if all the stars aligned and the barrel didn't blow up and wreck your face.

On Parker: My sister Nancy has my grandma's Parker DH in 28 gauge. It is a later DH model and so has modern steel barrels. This was at or near the bottom of the Parker product ladder, but is still a lovely gun.

I am a Parker collector and regularly exhibit some of the better Parkers at the NRA show and regional events. Several responses are in order:
1. Smokeless powders began use in America about 1890. By 1893-5, Parker was patterning and proof testing all guns, regardless of barrel composition, with smokeless powder.
2. We have Parker's service load and proof load data. They are the same or less in psi than most modern loads, and complied with SAAMI guidelines.
3. Parker advertising promoted the guns, again regardless of barrel composition, as made for smokeless powder.
4. Tests to rupture have shown approximately the same pressures regardless of barrel composition, about 30,000 psi in 12ga, when SAAMI maximum service loads are 11,000.
5. Most damascus Parkers, and other fine guns, were made after smokeless powder took hold, and have never been used with black powder. Ruptures are caused by barrel obstructions, excessively thin barrels caused by repeated honing, or gross overloading caused by mistake or careless experimentation. Damascus barrels require extra attention to ensure that rust does not begin to seperate the laminae.
6. D grades were mid grade guns.
7. A non Parker fluid steel replacement barrel will seriously degrade value.....we value originality.

Not wanting to turn this into a gun debating forum, I suggest that these issues be on the Parker gun forum, or privately message me. I just returned from the Bike Across Kansas ( Kansas has hills , we had high winds, and is usually a mellow ride) and posted photos on that website. I can provide documentation for all points.

Bruce Day

[Too Tall]

I am a Parker collector and regularly exhibit some of the better Parkers at the NRA show and regional events. Several responses are in order:
1. Smokeless powders began use in America about 1890. By 1893-5, Parker was patterning and proof testing all guns, regardless of barrel composition, with smokeless powder.
2. We have Parker's service load and proof load data. They are the same or less in psi than most modern loads, and complied with SAAMI guidelines.
3. Parker advertising promoted the guns, again regardless of barrel composition, as made for smokeless powder.
4. Tests to rupture have shown approximately the same pressures regardless of barrel composition, about 30,000 psi in 12ga, when SAAMI maximum service loads are 11,000.
5. Most damascus Parkers, and other fine guns, were made after smokeless powder took hold, and have never been used with black powder. Ruptures are caused by barrel obstructions, excessively thin barrels caused by repeated honing, or gross overloading caused by mistake or careless experimentation. Damascus barrels require extra attention to ensure that rust does not begin to seperate the laminae.
6. D grades were mid grade guns.
7. A non Parker fluid steel replacement barrel will seriously degrade value.....we value originality.

Not wanting to turn this into a gun debating forum, I suggest that these issues be on the Parker gun forum, or privately message me. I just returned from the Bike Across Kansas ( Kansas has hills , we had high winds, and is usually a mellow ride) and posted photos on that website. I can provide documentation for all points.

Bruce Day

Thanks for that Bruce, nice to have you here.

[Bruce Day]

Thanks, and looking forward to Iowa and RAGBRAI, one of the world's great people watching adventures. From Miss Fitness in very near a thong to the Amish girl in a long dress, from the health food conscience to the Mr Porkchop and buttered cheesy corn crowd, from the church groups to the mellow crowd smoking a little weed, from Team Bad Boy with members falling off the beer platform on top of their bus to the civic choral groups singing in the town square, its a great experience mixed with some miles and sometimes some real weather challenges.

I've ridden with some fascinating people; ambassadors, governors, generals, a 70 year old woman who had ridden all RAGBRAI rides, been to Everest base camp three time and into the Kumbo ice fields above, and on and on. I ride with Team Air Force if anyone looks for me.

[Too Tall]

Thanks, and looking forward to Iowa and RAGBRAI, one of the world's great people watching adventures. From Miss Fitness in very near a thong to the Amish girl in a long dress, from the health food conscience to the Mr Porkchop and buttered cheesy corn crowd, from the church groups to the mellow crowd smoking a little weed, from Team Bad Boy with members falling off the beer platform on top of their bus to the civic choral groups singing in the town square, its a great experience mixed with some miles and sometimes some real weather challenges.

I've ridden with some fascinating people; ambassadors, governors, generals, a 70 year old woman who had ridden all RAGBRAI rides, been to Everest base camp three time and into the Kumbo ice fields above, and on and on. I ride with Team Air Force if anyone looks for me.

Back to guns in a second. When you finish, come back and post some pics in a new thread under the EVENTS forum.
OK, back to bang bang.

[Ben]

I am a Parker collector and regularly exhibit some of the better Parkers at the NRA show and regional events. Several responses are in order:
1. Smokeless powders began use in America about 1890. By 1893-5, Parker was patterning and proof testing all guns, regardless of barrel composition, with smokeless powder.
2. We have Parker's service load and proof load data. They are the same or less in psi than most modern loads, and complied with SAAMI guidelines.
3. Parker advertising promoted the guns, again regardless of barrel composition, as made for smokeless powder.
4. Tests to rupture have shown approximately the same pressures regardless of barrel composition, about 30,000 psi in 12ga, when SAAMI maximum service loads are 11,000.
5. Most damascus Parkers, and other fine guns, were made after smokeless powder took hold, and have never been used with black powder. Ruptures are caused by barrel obstructions, excessively thin barrels caused by repeated honing, or gross overloading caused by mistake or careless experimentation. Damascus barrels require extra attention to ensure that rust does not begin to seperate the laminae.
6. D grades were mid grade guns.
7. A non Parker fluid steel replacement barrel will seriously degrade value.....we value originality.

Not wanting to turn this into a gun debating forum, I suggest that these issues be on the Parker gun forum, or privately message me. I just returned from the Bike Across Kansas ( Kansas has hills , we had high winds, and is usually a mellow ride) and posted photos on that website. I can provide documentation for all points.

Bruce Day

Bruce,

Thanks for the info. As for degradation in value, that'd only be a concern if I ever intended to sell the gun. As it is, in an odd way, the "incorrect" barrels actually increase the gun's value to me, because they add another layer to the story, another tangible connection to my granddaddy. If it were the shotgun equivalent of a "garage queen," I wouldn't love it nearly as much. All the little imperfections make it his -- evidence of more than a half-century chasing grouse and quail -- which is all that matters to me. That's also why I've not gotten much into grades -- I figured it out at some point and then promptly forgot. It's just not what makes the gun valuable to me. It's like saying that Bo Whoop would be more valuable if it weren't so heavily used -- it just flat-out misses the point.

I'd love to see your collection sometime, though. Old side-by-sides are just magnificent things.
Ben

[parris]

NOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Please don't post photos of Parkers, Lefevers, Smiths, Foxs, Ithacas, Remingtons, Winchester model 21s, or any other great SxS. I'm just coming out of that phase and getting drawn back in would not be good for me. Why else would I have my 21's tucked WAY in the back and out of the way of "stuff"?

[Bruce Day]

Like many old family articles, its the ties to our forebears that mean the most. Carved intials in stocks, inletted medallions, we've seen them all and while they may degrade value to others, they are special to family members. While not a family member, I've seen the L C Smith shotgun that belonged to Humphrey Bogart, complete with cigarette burn on the stock where he didn't Bogart THAT cigarette. Wouldn't want to sand that out. Mod 21's, there are also some highly desireable and belonged to historic figures.

Yeah, I have some Parker small bore damascus guns, mostly C grades and with the Bernard damascus barrels made by Leopold and Emile Bernard et cie, Cannoneers to Napoleon, Paris , France. Now if I only had a Richard Sachs road bike......... Or if a bike could be made with damascus frame tubes or lugs.......ah the stuff of dreams!

[parris]

Bruce didn't they find a cache of NOS damascus tubes at Greener about 5 years ago? The "issue" I see with doing a proper damascus frame or even lugs would be in who would you get to properly finish the whole deal? first there's the physical size of the tanks, then there's the prep work, and finally with the passing of Oscar Gaddy who would have the chops to bring it off well? After all a frame would be a heck of a lot more complicated than a set of barrels.