The XC Skiing thread

[caleb]

I was also getting a bit of snow stuck to my kick wax, which was odd because I thought that the wax I put on was pretty hard compared to the temperature. The air temp definitely never exceeded -7 celsius, which was the lower limit of the wax. Are waxless skis kind of like clinchers these days, or is the difference bigger? As much as I love messing with tubulars, ski waxes, klisters, canti brakes (ok that's my limit), etc... I think waxless may be a good idea for me, considering the near freezing temperatures and often old snow I usually encounter unless I drive north for an hour.

I'm thinking a newbie wax application is worse than modern waxless skis. Opinion?

I think waxless skis really, truly suck unless you're on melting snow. Even then, these are the only waxless skis I'm aware of that pretty much ever test faster than a well-waxed ski: Fischer Sports - Nordic Ski Race Classic - RCS Classic Zero In general, the difference between well-waxed skis and waxless is like the difference between a Veloflex tubular and a 1 1/4" Kenda K35 clincher - it's huge.

It's not necessarily bad for your kick wax to be picking up a bit of snow on the kick. As long as it's coming off on the glide and you're not icing over, you're okay. What wax were you using at -7C, and what was the snow like (new, old, dirty, clean, etcetera)?

[lukasz]

I think waxless skis really, truly suck unless you're on melting snow. Even then, these are the only waxless skis I'm aware of that pretty much ever test faster than a well-waxed ski: Fischer Sports - Nordic Ski Race Classic - RCS Classic Zero In general, the difference between well-waxed skis and waxless is like the difference between a Veloflex tubular and a 1 1/4" Kenda K35 clincher - it's huge.

It's not necessarily bad for your kick wax to be picking up a bit of snow on the kick. As long as it's coming off on the glide and you're not icing over, you're okay. What wax were you using at -7C, and what was the snow like (new, old, dirty, clean, etcetera)?

I mean, I don't think there is much to crayoning on a layer of grip wax and smoothing it out, right? Just work on it for a minute or two until it is smooth?

The wax was Swix V40 Blue Extra. When I flaked the snow off after getting back it came off quite easily and neatly, for what it's worth. The temperatures were from -1 to -3 while I was out there and the overnight low was -9, but I went out for 2 hours before sunset rather than anywhere close to the morning. It stopped snowing early Saturday morning. The snow seemed dry and powdery (couldn't make a snowball), and the humidity was about 50% when I was out there.

Our usual snow is melting or icy disgusting crap that's been on the ground forever since it barely snows down here. There will be at least 6 inches of snow on the trails for a while but it might only snow one or two more times down where I'd be using these skis. I'd say the quality this weekend was fantastic in comparison.

[globecanvas]

://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.com/madshus-eon-backcountry-skis.html]2013 Madshus Eon Backcountry Skis - Available in Both Waxless & Waxable Versions[/url]

I've had the Madshus Eons for a few years. I run them with 3-pin soft boots. I do mostly true backcountry XC skiing (like today I did a 7-mile MTB loop with about 600 ft climbing). The skis are very good for this application, breaking trail on MTB trails in the woods. I would not want anything fatter.

I do wish I had gotten the skis one size shorter for maneuverability in the woods. I am 5'9 155 and I got the 185s, which are still quite a bit shorter than my classic skis, but if I could buy them over I'd get the 175s.

Also, I need to upgrade to hard boots. Anybody have recommendations for 3-pin hard boots for the type of skiing I've described?

[caleb]

The wax was Swix V40 Blue Extra. When I flaked the snow off after getting back it came off quite easily and neatly, for what it's worth. The temperatures were from -1 to -3 while I was out there and the overnight low was -9, but I went out for 2 hours before sunset rather than anywhere close to the morning. It stopped snowing early Saturday morning. The snow seemed dry and powdery (couldn't make a snowball), and the humidity was about 50% when I was out there.

With fresh snow and falling temperatures, a kick wax that's on the cold side can often work just fine. And, for what it's worth, Swix Extra Blue is rarely a bad choice. If it works, then you're doing well. If it doesn't, try something else. That might sound simplistic (and it is), but sometimes it's tough to know what will work before you try it. For example, I was out on Saturday in similar temperature conditions to what you had (27-29F), but the snow was a couple days old and there was a light mist falling. The ticket was a full length layer of Rode Violet Multigrade topped with a 3/4 length layer of Swix Red Silver. Even at a given temperature, days are just different. If one wax doesn't work, try another.

[lukasz]

I think the skis felt OK but this was also pretty good weather as far as this area goes. Do any east coast or lower NY folks want to chime in on whether I should go waxed or waxless for these skis? I've been told by a few people around here that waxless might be a good idea due to the difficult snow conditions most of the time.

globecanvas: Which version of the skis do you have?

[Eddie]

Lukasz, I think I've mentioned this before, but our bang-around, sometimes groomed, oftentimes not skis are the Rossi Evo Trails. Essentially more of a shovel-tip for off-piste without going full-BC. Unfortunately Rossi has changed their site and I can't even find the various ski dimensions.

I also recently went with the same combi boots you have. I like them because I almost exclusively ski classic, but I've got a major ankle issue on one side. The taller height and extra support are really nice, and the flex of the sole still works for me.

[lukasz]

Cool, thanks for the suggestion. They seem to be around the same price point as the Madshus I was looking at. These are waxless only, right?

[Eddie]

Yeah, and they're a bit narrower, no metal edge. I've skied them on top of several feet of powder before. They're perfect for nothing really but great all-around. I'll ski them at Ole's on groomed trail, then later in the day go bushwhacking through the woods with the dogs, and I'll ski some canal tow path or unimproved rail trail, MTB park in the Delaware Valley area, etc.

If you want to go more aggressive as far as turning and breaking trail, then I'm with Ned on getting some BC's. Those are much heavier duty skis. You can't really ski those on groomed XC trail - just ask jamesand.

Are you looking to get these through ORS online or in person in Montpelier? If you're headed up there do stop in at Ski Rack in Burlington. Their selection is pretty impressive.

[lukasz]

I'm just going to mail order. Probably today so I can mess about with them next weekend. Think I'm going to go with some metal edge skis as there aren't any nordic centers on LI but there are a ton of poorly maintained state park xc ski trails and parks that allow xc skiing but you have to break trail. If I go to a nordic center I'll just cough up $20 to rent and eventually buy myself another pair of the skis I'm passing on. Second Ascent in Seattle still has them in my size on clearance for $90, which I think is pretty good for what you get.

I just watched another youtube vid on waxing and think I'm gonna go with wax skis again. I didn't know they had dab-on klister and glide wax. That changes everything. Hooray for shortcuts!

[lumpy]

think I'm gonna go with wax skis again. I didn't know they had dab-on klister and glide wax. That changes everything. Hooray for shortcuts!

One thing to be aware of is that modern ski bases vary in their ability to hold wax. My last pair of waxable classic skis needed to be rewaxed after 90 minutes or so, or less on really coarse old snow. Southern New England/NY variable snow (that's putting it charitably) means that klister is often the only thing that works, too. I find I use my beater waxless skis a lot even though they have a performance penalty because it means I can go out and thrash for an hour after work without worrying about getting the wax right.

[lukasz]

Yeah that's my big concern. It might be nice to just not have to worry about it. But then I learned that this exists: Swix Quick Klister - K0065 Universal / K0070 Red

[lumpy]

Looks like a good option. I haven't tried it.
By the way, citrus degreaser cleans up klister super easily.
And the noise my waxless skis make going down hill is genuinely offensive.

I've got some waxable classic skis sitting around waiting for modern bindings. I may have to get on that. I mostly skate nowadays anyway.

[globecanvas]

globecanvas: Which version of the skis do you have?

I have the waxless, though I often use glide wax on them. I think the waxable version is new this model year.

[lukasz]

In true internet advice form I have disregarded the input of most people who replied and got Waxable Madshus Eon skis (and some dab-on klister because I'll totally be needing that). My girlfriend can enjoy the trail I break on my thinner touring skis, though she gets pretty good float on them since I've got a few stone on her.

Cuz being out in this beats mountain biking and I don't have to worry about being hit by a car:

nFFLvEa.jpg

[globecanvas]

Thumbs up!

This was me yesterday:




Conditions were very heavy and I was breaking trail most of the way. 2 hours to go 7 miles.

[DCT]

heads up! news paltz, NY freaking rules.

3 day xcountry ski adventure with eddieb. abenp joined us one day and hooked us up with mohonk trail system.

[caleb]

Darren,

That's really beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

[DCT]

Darren,

That's really beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

it was a pleasant surprise. i've been cross bike riding in new paltz, ny but never skiing. the views from the ridge is incredible. we had some perfecting groomed trails and some man made stuff.

if anyone is within a few hour drive, i recommend doing this. also, go to The Mountain Brauhaus for amazing german food and beer. google it and go!

im sure Eddie and Abe will chime in when they surface.

cheers

[caleb]

USA! USA! USA!

[lumpy]

I broke a skate ski yesterday. Not a warranty thing so I'll have to fix it at home.

Attachment 52929

Softening the blow somewhat, today I took a 5 hour tour on a pair of stiff, heavy touring skis from the 70's. By afternoon it was bluebird sky and nice slippery snow. Amazing conditions for late March in southern New England.

ecc2.jpgskis 2.jpg