What do you think about 142 spacing on hard tails, and what dropouts do you use?

[steve garro]

People are inquiring, but I just don't see a benefit on hardtail - also, are there plate DO's other then sliders?
Show me what you got!
- Garro.

[DevinL'Ecu]

VS standard 135mm QRs, or vs 135mm x 12 through axle? I'm looking at doing some 135x12 TAs for cross, and I'm assuming the 142 is better for tire clearance and spoke angle. I see Oscar upstairs (Simple Bicycle Co) doing them all the time, pretty much on every hardtail he makes.

And thus, the end of my opinions on the matter.

[Mike Mcdermid]

You mean like a 142 X 12?

[roseyscot]

it's the only thing i'd add/change about my 29er single speed

[dgaddis]

My recent experience riding a QR rigid fork and a TA rigid fork back to back, from the same company, on the same bike with the same wheels = almost zero difference. Very subtle. Not sure how it would play out on a the rear end of a hardtail. I'd be game to try it though.

What about those new Paragon dropouts, that have a bunch of bolts, but the plates can be changed for every axle type, belt drive, etc. But they're not sliders. With those, and a convertible hub, you could try both QR and TA.

[tigoat]

VS standard 135mm QRs, or vs 135mm x 12 through axle? I'm looking at doing some 135x12 TAs for cross, and I'm assuming the 142 is better for tire clearance and spoke angle. I see Oscar upstairs (Simple Bicycle Co) doing them all the time, pretty much on every hardtail he makes.

And thus, the end of my opinions on the matter.

Not sure I am understanding this correctly but rear dropout/hub spacing is the same between 135mm vs. 142mm so the extra 7mm of the 142mm come from the spacing inside the dropout, 3.5mm per side. This means it has nothing to do with tire clearance and spoke angle.

[VertigoCycles]

Not sure I am understanding this correctly but rear dropout/hub spacing is the same between 135mm vs. 142mm so the extra 7mm of the 142mm come from the spacing inside the dropout, 3.5mm per side. This means it has nothing to do with tire clearance and spoke angle.

You got it right. The real improvement and only real change between a 135 thru and a 142 thru is that the dropouts have a shoulder on the 142...something to slam home on the hub spindle and then jam the axle in without any thought. With the old through axles, you had to position the wheel and then hunt around with the axle, not exactly efficient.

[DevinL'Ecu]

Ah, I just went and looked at some drawings with numbers on them and yes- totally spaced (ha) that they're the "same" size, just shouldered.

"Slam it and jamb it, 142mm TAs."

[Will Neide]

It's been my impression that it's a benefit for full suspension rear ends, but not so much for hardtails. If you are using paragon rockers then all you need to do is swap out the plates.

The only reason I could see it being beneficial is if you already have a bunch of 142 wheels and bikes, and want the ease of swapping wheels back and forth between your bikes.

[EricKeller]

I suspect the future will see a tapering off of 135 options on the wheel side, so that might be something to drive people towards through axle on a hardtail. It's almost enough to make me want to try the Paragon Polydrops, but they just don't appeal to me. I think dropouts should be simple. It seems like the low-mount drops could be modified to take a non-sliding insert.

[adarn]

My thoughts are kind of what Sean said. I've ridden the two back to back and the difference was sort of but not really all that noticeable. I don't really see any disadvantages though besides choosing hubs.

[abbeyQ]

As long as you're talking hardtails there is zero reason for the frame/wheel. But wheel compatibility between other bikes may be a factor for your customers and could easily justify adding the option to your offerings.

[fortyfour]

The only reason I could see it being beneficial is if you already have a bunch of 142 wheels and bikes, and want the ease of swapping wheels back and forth between your bikes.

My next build in the list is a long travel 650b and this is exactly why the client requested that axle configuration as he has a XCish-all-mountain-full-suspension-something-or-other he'd like to share wheels with in the event of trouble. I'll be using Paragon's DR2065.

Pink Bike does a good job of explaining 12 x 142.

I don't really see any real gains for the average rider on a hardtail with 12x142 other than that wheels sharing option and ease of assembly/disassembly. Maybe that extra few percentage points of stiffness start to help when you're building for a clydesdale. 150mm rear spacing makes more sense for 29+ in combo with an 83mm bottom bracket for getting the bikes handling characteristics back in check with that larger 3" tire profile. Another bike down the lane which is 29+ will be using 83mm bb shell with 150mm rear spacing.

Most aftermarket hub manufacturers make their hubs compatible with all axle standards with a simple swap of the end caps. I don't see 135 QR going anywhere anytime soon.

[Applesauce]

I swapped in some 142 dropouts on my Raijin, and got rid of them after a week or two. Just a pain in the ass to change wheels (perhaps mostly because of Kona's not-great sliders/skewer) with no real advantage for a rear end that was already plenty stiff with a standard QR.

My next frame will have Paragon sliders, for sure, and a DMD hanger.

[Mike Mcdermid]

I know BTR fabrications make some absolutely freakingly awesome bikes and thay all have 142 mm axles except 1 in the range very neat and tiny clean design

the full suss frames we manufacture also have 142 syntace rears

[Will Neide]

Most aftermarket hub manufacturers make their hubs compatible with all axle standards with a simple swap of the end caps. I don't see 135 QR going anywhere anytime soon.

^This too.

I have a customer who wants the option to run a set of I9 wheels as TA front and rear, but also have the ability to use them on the monster CX bike when desired. We ordered him an extra set of end caps to have on hand. He won't be swapping them around daily so it isn't an issue, but he didn't want to be strapped in an emergency.

[steve garro]

It's been my impression that it's a benefit for full suspension rear ends, but not so much for hardtails. If you are using paragon rockers then all you need to do is swap out the plates.

How does this work?
The plates are thinner, or off set, or what?

For more clarification, this is for a gal who is maybe 110 lbs total (45 kilos?) with cycling gear, and I want to make her a nice, light frame.

Keep the ideas coming, let's cover this.

Actual experiences, please

Thanks guys - Steve.

[Guillaume]

I've build myself and my wife two new hardtails last summer. (sorry for the pic, I did not took a macro one of the dropout area and the hangers are missing)

P1080473.JPG

I decided to use 142x12 because I though this would became the ''standard'' for the next decade, because I wanted to try it too and for the ease of changing wheels between bikes. As far as building the frame it's the same as normal hooded drops.

It takes maybe a little more time to get the wheel out of the drops compare to a 135x10 with a QR. But then it has the same advantage as a front tru axle : the wheel can't really go out of the drops if the QR (like the shimano I use) gets open on a branch or is not thight enough (quite rare imo).

As far as stiffness, tracking or anything in these lines, honnestly it's hard to tell especially with tires at 25 psi. But I never thought the rear ends of my hardtails were flexy with 135x10.

It might be stronger but then they're not DH bikes either.

[EnginCycles]

I have done a bunch of 142 bikes. Both Poly Drop and Rocker inserts. I have also had my drop outs made with a 142 shoulder. The design as indicated has no effect on the Q factor of the stays and the wheel is the same hub shell. The axle end caps are longer and bigger and rest on the inside of the frame. Very much like a 20mm front design compared to a 15mm design. The 20mm were 110mm wide and the 15mm is 100. The 15mm is actually less than 100 because the 100mm wheel is shouldered inside the drop outs. The inner face of the drop out is less than 100 (except where the wheel faces bear).

I feel the 142x12 has merit with both moving drop outs and anything with a pivot. I did FEA testing of my drop outs and found no increase worth dealing with for a 142x12 design. If it gets to be the norm it is an easy modification on my production but it is not reversible on the bikes already made.

I think it will go this direction but there will be no shortage of parts available for people so it should not be a deal breaker on getting a new bike. Nothing lasts forever anyway. Direct mount rear derailleur is way more important than anything else. That actually makes the bike better for both wheel changes and functionality.

Cheers,
Drew

[steve garro]

Have any of you seen or used one of the 2souls ones that use the syntace axle?
Good stuff, thanks!
- Garro.