44 Bikes

[seanile]

you somehow manage to find ways to impress me on a weekly basis

[fortyfour]

Here's that 650b. 26lbs as pictured with pedals. Not too shabby for a bike that size/style IMO. Also a detail of the dropper routing completed. Lucky No. "N+1".

[fortyfour]

And I should mention the customer indeed is one of the only ones in the British Commonwealth to run their brakes non-moto style. I almost did not ask when I was about to bleed them and switch them to moto style...

[fortyfour]

[fortyfour]

So there was a question posted over on my Garage Journal shop build out thread that I thought was interesting and had some value over here at Velocipede Salon and Smoke Out.

The short answer really as a custom frame shop: you do not compete with any of the other outlets. You're really carving out a piece of the specialty market that is the custom made bicycle market. Retail shops and larger OE's try to carve out a place or establish a foothold in that arena, but I guess the question of "do you really compete with the Trek's, or Specialized's or any of the retailers that offer those types of mass produced bicycles?" No, I can't compete with them, and nor would I want to compete with them. Volume discounts on product would be great, but I still get a health discount on product but am left in good faith with my OEM partners that it will be priced accordingly.

Here's the question:

"Business-related question; not sure how much you are at liberty to (or willing to) disclose. Pure curiosity, as someone who previously worked in the retail bike business.

At what volumes did you make the jump from selling frames to built bikes? How are you able to remain competitive with the big online joints on "build kit" pricing when building complete bikes, when each on gets tweaked per customer specs? I mean, you obviously don't have the purchasing power (or overhead allowance) of Colorado Cyclist or Nashbar to get volume discounts buy buying 20 XTR setups at once, right?"

Here's my response to the above question:

"Sure, no problem. That's a really good set of questions. A retail shop and a frame shop are similar but very different at the same time. Here's how I see it (and how I define myself over a retail shop can have many parallels but for the sake of conversation, I'm turning these points into differences and how the two can coincide together without necessarily competing at the same level):

Regarding Frame Shop vs Bike Shop: In a bicycle shop, on the retail level, you're pulling in all different sorts of clientele. Children's first bicycle, Kids first BMX or Mountain bike, Adults first bicycle, a guy who's owned a mountain bike for 15 years and now wants to upgrade or someone who wants a bike that can do X a bit better than what they currently own, etc. etc. Repairs. People who need tubes, lube, grease or a part that broke. Advice. You are pulling in cyclists and people who ride occasionally or someone who is thinking of getting into bicycling. You also pull in the long time cyclists and serious roadies or shredders. If you have a team, you're supporting them too and pulling in some serious cyclists through that or long time cyclists come in depending on the size of the shop and what they can offer that that type of cyclists cannot do themselves, etc. So buying at volume pricing makes sense. You need lots of parts on hand and lots of bikes on hand, with some sizzle in there to sell the steak. You've got employee's, part time help, someone to keep the books, a manager, a owner or a manager/owner. You may own the space or you're renting the space. You place ads, you more than likely hire someone to do a website, or graphic design, or maybe you do it yourself or you have an employee with a degree that applies.

The frame shop, MY Frame Shop... is similar, yet completely different. First, the person that enters my doors is by invite only. Not just anyone off the street can come into the shop. I'm not handling repairs, fixing flats, doing tune-ups, "I broke my derailleur hanger do you have the right replacement"... I sweep the floors, I make the coffee, I build the bicycles. I design the catalogs, I designed my logo, I just redesigned and hand coded my website. I do the marketing, I know where I've been, where I am and where I'd like to take the brand. 44 Bikes is as DIY as you can get.

I'm building, physically building from raw tubes a cyclists next bicycle. Bike shops can throw around that word "custom built" or "custom build" all they want. But a frame shop defines that word "custom." This is the bicycle that's taking the client to the next level, taking them on that long desired journey or adventure, the one bike that they've been looking for a long time to acquire. This is not their first bicycle. Sometimes it might be there last or they may be repeat customers. They're contacting me because they've had a long history of riding bicycles, they've owned upwards of 10-15 bicycles and each one has been better than the last but something was always lacking. Maybe as simple as those small personal touches. The rare case is fit issues or physical oddities (say one arm longer than the other, longer than average torso or shorter than average inseam). What they come to me as a framebuilder is they want that personal guidance, to be part of the bicycle right from the very first step in the design process and they want to hand pick each part, dial in every measurement, lose sleep over the paint or powder and let me take them through my process from start to finish of building their bicycle. Not just assembling the parts. I do that too.

My clientele are similar to the clientele that come into a retail bike shop environment, but they are definitely on a whole other level. They span a variety of incomes and backgrounds, so I'm not necessarily selling to a certain segment of the population. But this is the person who wants that "tailored" approach. The discerning cyclists who does appreciate supporting local craftsman, and the one who wants to know the origin of their bicycle is made by hands here in the USA. They've told me as much and more. They've come to me and clearly stated they appreciate my process, my willingness to share and that there is an intrinsic appeal for the product I'm creating.

A retail bike shop: cannot compete with me. The Specialized's or the Trek's of the world: Cannot compete with me nor can either of them compete with the level of attention I am afforded to spend with the client. I do not want to compete with them. I work with retail bicycle shops and fitters who provide me with detailed specifications from their fit for my client. Sometimes the completed bicycle is shipped to that same shop for final assembly for the client and one last fit/dial in of saddle height, bar positioning etc. I have partnered with large scale OEM's and have a laundry list which includes Shimano, Fox, Chris King, Industry 9, ENVE, Cane Creek, Paul Components, Stan's NoTubes, Phil Wood, Hayes, Thomson, and a bunch of others. I also have accounts with QBP, BTI, Security, Merry Sales and others. Anything a retail shop can get, I can as well and offer at competitive pricing. At the end of the day, my completes are in line with top of the line bicycles on a showroom floor in a retail environment. Sometimes they are even less, they fit like a glove and it's the exact color the client wanted. No compromises have been made whatsoever.

NOTE: This is not to say any or most of the above is not present at a retail bike shop. I still love walking into my favorite bike shop, speaking with the employees, checking out the latest and greatest and smelling that new bike smell. In many ways, there are some things that a retail environment can offer that I simply cannot but in contrast, would not want to offer. I work with shops not against them and always encourage my clients to speak with the shops at the local level if they have additional questions I cannot answer.

Regarding volume pricing: To live comfortably, I do not make my money in volume sales. I make my money by carving out a place in the custom market (primarily building complete bespoke bicycles), creating a brand that speaks for itself, is completely unique, is offering something that is different than "off the shelf", supplying the discerning cyclists with a long history with an in depth approach to my process. Basically opening up my doors and my arms and welcoming them into and through the shop. Leading by example. Mountain bikes are typically a mix of components. Drivetrains are all the same be it Sram or Shimano. Cranks and chainrings are most likely the spot in the drivetrain that is changed. Wheelsets are custom built (rims, spokes and hubs). Road bikes typically are a bit more of "kits" but again, wheels, stems, saddles, seat posts, headsets... they all tend to come from different OEM accounts. So having a number of kits on hand never makes sense. I purchase the "kit" for the bicycle when the turn of the client comes up and every last part has been picked and priced out. All of this takes time yes, but this is my job and what I love to do and it's part and parcel to the tailored approach. In a nutshell: I build F1's not Fords.

Regarding Frame vs Completes: As a custom frame builder, I started building completes right from the beginning. I will build framesets (frame & fork) or say a rolling chassis where it's frame, fork, wheels and a few parts. But from the first contact with a client, we're talking in terms of complete and I am up front with them. I will work with the client to best suite their needs, but I do let them know I prefer to build completes but am not opposed to just building frame and fork. Out of the last 10 frames to date, only one has been a frame and fork only. All of the others are completes with all high end components.

I do think the most important aspect of this response / conversation though is this: I work in collaboration with retail bicycle shops whenever I can and I partner with large OEM's to offer their product on my bespoke bicycles. Volume and "more" is the complete opposite of what it is that I do.

Less is more."

[fortyfour]

Due to many requests in the past, I took lunch to scan my Grandfathers 1945 Meco Catalog. For a short back story, my Grandfather, Henry Malasky, owned his own welding fabrication shop: Superior Welding. It was located in Emmaus, Pa. They specialized in tanks and vessels, but also appear to have done quite a bit of military contract work as well (I have blue prints marked "War Department"...) All that remains is a hoard of nicely preserved literature and correspondence I salvaged when my Grandmother, Anna Mae Malasky, passed and we were cleaning out the house. This Meco catalog was one of many "goodies" found. The story goes, after working on many bridges and buildings as an iron worker, he eventually opened his own shop with his remaining brother - the third fell to his death previously while working on a building. (My Grandfather saw him fall). Later in his career he was doing a lot of specialty work TIG welding his days away. In my studio where I do all my graphics and design work, I sit in the chair from his office.

Enjoy this. I know I hold it dearly. Download your complete copy here.

[mstyer]

Thank you for sharing the catalog! I have an Aviator torch, several AV tips, and the cutting attachment in my garage.

[fortyfour]

The last in the series finally finished. All three posters will be available later this summer for purchase. (Working on setting up the online store now.) And yes, some will be adapted as t-shirts and I'll be sure to make all 3 available as iPhone Wallpapers (free downloads of course). Here is the First in the series. Here is the Second in the series. They'll be available as singles or purchase all 3 as a set. Signed. Numbered. Hand printed in NH on thick archival stock. Stay tuned...

[fortyfour]

[fortyfour]

[fortyfour]

[shirk]

Here's that 650b. 26lbs as pictured with pedals. Not too shabby for a bike that size/style IMO. Also a detail of the dropper routing completed. Lucky No. "N+1".

Beautiful bike.

Do mind sharing the tubing selection on this bike? I am in the process of building my #2 a similar style 650b designed around a 140mm fork with slack angles. Going Nova 38mm 9/6/9 pre-bend dt, 35mm 9/6/9 tt, True Temper 31.6 st, TT 44mm ht, Nova super bend 29'er stays. Thinking of straight gauge seat stays so I can play with some bends.

Also the port for your stealth routing, is that piece brazed over the slot an off the shelf piece or something you machined up?

[fortyfour]

Beautiful bike.

Do mind sharing the tubing selection on this bike? I am in the process of building my #2 a similar style 650b designed around a 140mm fork with slack angles. Going Nova 38mm 9/6/9 pre-bend dt, 35mm 9/6/9 tt, True Temper 31.6 st, TT 44mm ht, Nova super bend 29'er stays. Thinking of straight gauge seat stays so I can play with some bends.

Also the port for your stealth routing, is that piece brazed over the slot an off the shelf piece or something you machined up?

Sure no problem. All tubes are True Temper from Henry James with the exception of the chain and seat stays. Here's a side view for the sake of the conversation:



· Head tube: 130mm PMW 44mm head tube.
· Top Tube: 34.9mm TT (actually a Down Tube : HOX2DT)
· Down Tube: 38.1mm DT (HOX2DT01)
· Seat Tube: 34.9mm / Reamed and shimmed to a 30.9 (VERUSSTMAG2)
· Chainstays: 19.05mm / .035" wall 4130 Seamless Aircraft Tubing - Formed/bent/dimpled to my exact specifications in pairs.
· Seat Stays: 16mm / .035" wall 4130 Seamless Aircraft Tubing - Bent and shaped in pairs

Port was fabricated from the stub I had to remove from the end of the seat tube when shortening it. I fashion the port first by slotting the tube in a tube block on the mill. The below example is how I slot the seat tube slot, but for the conversation it's similar to how I held that short piece that I fabricated the port from, so instead of hole/slot, I just used a .25" end mill to slot a .25" slot approximately 1.00" in length:



I then cut this piece from the tube, and fashion it accordingly so it looks as it does in the image you referenced. That is then brazed in place. I then put the seat tube back into the mill, locate and slot as the last step. Any brazing for internal routing is done BEFORE the tubes become the frame. Much easier to deal with them before they are assembled this way. Like so:



Finishing the tooling and refining the process to make radius seat tubes in both 31.8 and 34.9mm diameters. These are and will be made from 4130 Seamless aircraft tubing with .035" wall thickness.

I prefer to use straight gauge 4130 for chain and seat stays because part of my process is really optimizing clearances. You can only push the "stock" seat/chainstays so far which I feel is limiting. I never liked that I did not have room or freedom to have any tire size I pleased up to and including say a 2.5" tire on a mountain bike. Tires are so much of "how" a bike rides and feels, and having the ability to tune the ride even more with tire choice and tire width is something I build around. Get into the whole short rear end debate, and all the other angles/measurements associated with that (not just the rear end, it's the whole bike) and you look to ways to fiddle. Not to mention that most things "off the shelf" are much better when you can play with them and change them to your own specs. Having that ability to tune the raw material in a way where you completely change it from it's original form is advantageous and pleasing.

Hope that helps! Feel free to email me directly if you have any additional questions. Contact is via my website.

[shirk]

Thanks for the response.

Using the end cut off the tube to make the stealth gusset makes sense.

[fortyfour]

Thanks for the response.

Using the end cut off the tube to make the stealth gusset makes sense.

Sure no problem. The end matches very well in terms of radius and any change in radius ever so slight is not noticeable. Location and placement were eyeballed for the record using a scrap of brake housing as a guide to find the best spot.

[fortyfour]

[dgaddis]

Awesome. Kris I ment to ask about those tires, I know you set them up tubeless, what pressures did you use?

[fortyfour]

Awesome. Kris I ment to ask about those tires, I know you set them up tubeless, what pressures did you use?

For the record, they are not actually tubeless tires but they set up as such relatively painlessly. I think I'm running somewhere in the neighborhood of 35-40psi? I do it by feel... From what my contacts at WTB tell me though, they are coming out with a TCS version of this tire. Just know that if you are running Stan's rims, WTB's TCS tires are NOT compatible with them. They won't even go on they're that tight. I do not know why that is though (I do in practice but I'm not sure why a tire manufacturer would make them THAT tight... ?).

Also for the record, it took a few times of pumping them up the next day and rotating them before they would hold air overnight. Even now, randomly I'll have to fill one of the tires with air the next morning for no reason. But again, they are not technically tubeless tires and apparently WTB's have a special square bead.

Here's a shot of them just set up tubeless - they did leak for a bit:



But I have to say, that little bit of fuss is WORTH-IT-ATMO. I can haul on these tires. I mean, "honey badger don't give a F_CK" kind of hauling. Heck just last night, again, on a local 10 mile loop through 6th class roads and rough stuff, I am pretty blown away by how I can maintain speed when the road really gets rough. I'm easily peaking 40mph on loose gravel descents with not a care in the world nor a finger on the brake. The ride is one of the best I've experienced. Sure they have a little more rolling resistance, but they check off so many boxes in the awesome category I can't see why not to run them if you ride a lot of dirt, access roads and mixed terrain.

[dgaddis]

Just know that if you are running Stan's rims, WTB's TCS tires are NOT compatible with them. They won't even go on they're that tight. I do not know why that is though (I do in practice but I'm not sure why a tire manufacturer would make them THAT tight... ?).

Stan's rims have a slightly oversized bead shelf to make a tight fit with standard tires, it's how they work tubeless. UST tires however have a slightly smaller diameter bead shelf of a very specific size/shape to mate perfectly with the UST rims. WTB's TCS tires use a UST bead (they didn't go through the licensing/approval process so they can't offically call them UST). Small bead + big rim = TIIIIIIIIGHT fit. GEAX TNT tires are similar - I have a friend who managed to get one on a Stan's rim, but had to cut it off.

All that said, a customer of mine recently put a set of TCS tires on some Arch EX rims and said they went on without any trouble. Tubeless still isn't an exact science.

Thanks for the info on the tires, I'm pumped they're an option now, and the TCS version + a WTB rim will make for a great 'cross/roughstuff set up. Perfect tire for the Huntsman for sure!!

[fortyfour]

Stan's rims have a slightly oversized bead shelf to make a tight fit with standard tires, it's how they work tubeless. UST tires however have a slightly smaller diameter bead shelf of a very specific size/shape to mate perfectly with the UST rims. WTB's TCS tires use a UST bead (they didn't go through the licensing/approval process so they can't offically call them UST). Small bead + big rim = TIIIIIIIIGHT fit. GEAX TNT tires are similar - I have a friend who managed to get one on a Stan's rim, but had to cut it off.

All that said, a customer of mine recently put a set of TCS tires on some Arch EX rims and said they went on without any trouble. Tubeless still isn't an exact science.

Thanks for the info on the tires, I'm pumped they're an option now, and the TCS version + a WTB rim will make for a great 'cross/roughstuff set up. Perfect tire for the Huntsman for sure!!

Thanks for that explanation. There's only so much you can know! I did get a set of Cross Wolves on/off a set of my Arch EX's. They were tight, but not more tight than what a normal tubeless tire is like.