Bikes and how they are ridden

[Len J]

tai rui's point.....if I'm not misinterpreting, is a direct response to Dave' original quesion

"So how does one use the internet and it's forums to help in this way? It's certainly not by ridiculing the guy with the high bars."

They are both pointing out that the method we use to communicate influences how that communication is heard....or not.

Len

[swoop]

len, speaking critically about an object is not attacking a person. one of my bikes is fucking fugly. so what?
worse yet, i'm not so easy on the eyes either. the interweb doesn't need to magnify a dude's need for approval or amplify woundedness. this isn't the special olympics.. its adults talking about bikes. some bikes are gorgeous some are hideous, the conversation itself is usually entertaining and tends towards honest.
what's not to like?

i think everyone needs to go to youtube and watch top gear. its ok to have passion and to take a piss. when did everyone become so wounded? the bikes being critiqued are fairly ugly. so what?
the point of this whole thing is to be able to be libidinal about bikes.. to be full of candor is a joy.

[GrantM]

[Len J]

len, speaking critically about an object is not attacking a person. one of my bikes is fucking fugly. so what?
worse yet, i'm not so easy on the eyes either. the interweb doesn't need to magnify a dude's need for approval or amplify woundedness. this isn't the special olympics.. its adults talking about bikes. some bikes are gorgeous some are hideous, the conversation itself is usually entertaining and tends towards honest.
what's not to like?

i think everyone needs to go to youtube and watch top gear. its ok to have passion and to take a piss. when did everyone become so wounded? the bikes being critiqued are fairly ugly. so what?
the point of this whole thing is to be able to be libidinal about bikes.. to be full of candor is a joy.

I don't disagree at all................I have my own aestetic tasts about bikes and everything else...........I also realize that in the cold light of day talking about an object is not the same as talking about a person. But we're all overly sensitive about something.........at least I am.

Maybe I'm reading too much into Dave's post (projecting as it were), but there's are more than one way to make a point.......If you can make the point in a way that gets people thinking about what they can do to improve as opposed to breeding defensivness...what's wrong with that? The point would still be communicated. As we say about cycling, consciousness matters.

It's a choice. And I agree also that how any of us react to such comments says more about us than the person making the comment......but, recognizing that we are all just struggling humans, each with our own blind spots, why not communicate in a non-threatening way? I'm not singling you (or anyone else) out Swoop.........I've been guilty of the same thing I'm questioning.

Just food for thought is all....it's a great issue to be wrestling with....glad we can do it.

len

[Len J]

I could not have kept my hands off the wheel or my foot of the brake....too many control issues! ::)

LOL

That was pretty cool.

Len

[swoop]

i think what works best is if everyone just speaks in their own voice. i think they key is that everyone is motivated not only to comment, but to risk providing content in their voice and that they try and stick as close to what's true to them as possible.


and i think we do that in spades.

anyway back to bikes...

[jsf]

Hi All, Happy Father's Day.

Excellent post.
The teaching mindset is good training for oneself as well, it gets you thinking about priorities. I started riding in a vacuum, hints here, information there, I was reading Velonews when Jacques Strappe was chief reporter. Thats when I learned to 'ankle'. Many hours practicing ankleing. Now its "slide your foot to scrape the mud off". Ankleing seems more elegant, but scrapeing has the quality of rhythm and strength, that ankleing never achieved. Techinques evolve, as do we. 40 years ago my bike was a lot larger and longer than it is now. I traveled through France and Italy on it.
I do not fit it any more. I am more fit and have more experience. But there is that stuff I no longer have, hence I got a bike that feels like an extension of my body. While I think it is the culmination of the art, it may not pass muster in some circles. Everytime I am on it I am thrilled, that ain't shabby.
And, Just where did Jacques end up anyway?
I am out for a ride, Jon

[Len J]

i think what works best is if everyone just speaks in their own voice. i think they key is that everyone is motivated not only to comment, but to risk providing content in their voice and that they try and stick as close to what's true to them as possible.


and i think we do that in spades.

anyway back to bikes...

Nice way of putting it.

& I'd add....trust each other enough to remind ourselves that it ain't personal.....(a little harder I know)

len

[Cary Ford]

Re: Developing skills:
In my experience, though I hate riding trainers and rollers, riding rollers has been a very tangible way to develop smoothness.

-JimD

I actually used to do a session on rollers for 1 hour in the dark to prepare MENTALLY for time trials.

[Shinomaster]

Cream rises to the top and so does Dave Kirk and his first post.

[tai rui]

If you can make the point in a way that gets people thinking about what they can do to improve as opposed to breeding defensivness...what's wrong with that? The point would still be communicated. As we say about cycling, consciousness matters.

Precisely, and this is what I was trying to communicate with my story.

You can say something in a way that gets a person's hackles up, or you can say something in a way that gets their wheels turning. Obviously, if your intention is pure - you're honestly trying to offer them the benefit of your knowledge and experience - you going to say it to achieve the latter.

But I think too often here in this Land of Anonymity, we take the other road and mock first and then feign genuine surprise when our message is received with defensive hostility. Going back again to the post on the fredly BMC, I wonder how many would walk up to the owners of that bike or those Serottas posted and say, "Man, you really got ripped off, that bike is a POS and your position sucks." If someone was brave enough to do it, would the expected answer be, "Gee, I never noticed that, thanks for trying to help me out." No, you'd be feigning genuine surprise at the blood running down your Rapha jersey.

The e-world has gone snarky, and because of this, opportunities are being lost. But maybe that doesn't matter -we can't all rise to the occasion and graciously offer to help cyclists who have made bad choices, or had bad choices foisted upon them. Maybe putting aside all the purported good we do in order to "blow off a little steam" is more important. I dunno, I can only say that having been on the other side of it in a completely different venue, I've chosen to try to craft my words in a way that makes me sound more positive and helpful in this thing I obsess about now.

[atmo]

this all sounds on the money to me, atmo.
personally, i'd give the same opinion about a bicycle to its owner
whether the chat was here, somewhere else online, or in person.

[swoop]

fuck me.. i just hit modify instead of quote and screwed atmos post... gaaaaawd i suck it this.
so sorry erichie.

that damn modify button is right next to the quote one... and i appearently have the aim of a spaz. i'm really really sorry.

[atmo]

fuck me.. i just hit modify instead of quote and screwed atmos post... gaaaaawd i suck it this.
so sorry erichie.

what's to modify on my postmo?
you need a designated driver atmo...

[swoop]

its embarrassing. that's the third or fourth time i've done that. totally sorry. i was trying to quote your text and say hell yeah in mine. the quote icon and the modify button got me accidentally hitting the wrong one.

i was saying that the best part of the ride is sitting over coffee with the boys and that this is exactly how i sound... but that i get that from everyone here. we all sound like we sound. candor issshhhh gooot.

[Dekonick]

DK's post really brings an important issue to light. There is alot to be learned in cyberspace - wouldn't it be nice to make that process easier?

If you can obtain your BS,BA MS,MBA, etc online - why not cycling?

I am open to ridicule - I just want to learn.

[atmo]

DK's post really brings an important issue to light. There is alot to be learned in cyberspace - wouldn't it be nice to make that process easier?

If you can obtain your BS,BA MS,MBA, etc online - why not cycling?

I am open to ridicule - I just want to learn.

i have blogged some of my best posts atmo.
all 50,000 plus words.
some are poignant.
many are opinionated.
i think some can help ya' learn atmo.
go mental:
http://richardsachs.blogspot.com/

[Dekonick]

Glad they still exist - I have listend and learned from your writings before.

:)

[Bike Rider]

It's post like this that make me hope that someday you take over the entire bike fabrication world.

I hope the thread can stay on topic and discuss ways to improve handling and not be a platform for folks to defend there position on Fred frames.

One thing that often seems omitted in threads like this is the end goal of the cyclist. I enjoy an occasional fast (for me) group ride on a small, swervie, roads. Having to chase out of corners and worrying about how to take the corners (which I suck at so any advise here would be great).

However, riding fast, hanging onto a group or dropping someone is not my main goal. Some of my favorite rides include sidewalks, parking lots, the boardwalk, MUTS and some hardpack if I can find it. Dealing with obstacles (static and dynamic) is a whole other skill set that is almost never discussed. I feel like if I can learn to ride in these conditions, than a group ride on fairly opened roads is apiece of cake.

It seems to me that too many cyclist set their sites on riding fast and not just riding. If more of them spent time doing something other than riding fast, on open roads they would be more skilled.

[atmo]

Having to chase out of corners and worrying about how to take the corners (which I suck at so any advise here would be great).

steer with your eyes, not your bicycle atmo.