Lathe recommendations?

[Andrew R Stewart]

Do you hold a metal-cutting tool bit in your hands only with some help from that hand vice? o_O

I read the post as he used a hand held file. So, yes, in a manor of speech. Andy.

[EnginCycles]

Good advice here. I would also add that if you plan on reaming and facing welded frames on it, you will want a belt driven machine.

Why? To be honest the best scenario is as slow as humanly possible with a great ratio back gear. I do it on a machine which is running at 30 rpm with a 5 to 1 reduction ratio and would not mind it to be slower (which my Monarch can do but have my Harrison set up for this task). Some of the gear head machines offer as slow as 15 rpm in the back gear which is super for reaming as you describe. Even on a belt drive machine it would be in your best interest to be in the back gear which means it is no longer a belt driven machine. It is a gear that is driving the spindle technically. Even a gear head machine has a belt (or four) from the motor to the gear box.

[NBC]

have a look at the dean smith & grace 13 inch lathes, they're probably one of the most madly strong smaller lathes that exists, they weigh a stupid amount, but you'll never break it !

NBC

[Ben Hudson]

One thing to be said for Myfords is that new spare parts are plentifully available. I have an ML7, which is really quite small, was inexpensive, and can do everything bike-related I can currently imagine, with the limitation of a 19/32" through-bore, which is a bit of a pain. A Super 7 Plus will clear a 1" steerer but that's your lot.

PS. everything you could possibly want to know is on lathes.co.uk

[Andrew R Stewart]

One thing to be said for Myfords is that new spare parts are plentifully available. I have an ML7, which is really quite small, was inexpensive, and can do everything bike-related I can currently imagine, with the limitation of a 19/32" through-bore, which is a bit of a pain. A Super 7 Plus will clear a 1" steerer but that's your lot.

PS. everything you could possibly want to know is on lathes.co.uk

Not everything. I look for machines that aren't even listed. But lathe.co.uk is a wonderful resource just the same. Andy.

[11.4]

No mention yet of Mori Seiki lathes, or the ones made by Hwacheon on the original Mori Seiki designs. Superb lathes. They make some monsters, but the Hwacheon 460 and 580 series are plentiful in great used condition and have great modern features -- better than the original Mori Seiki's. There's a lot of Myford, South Bend, and other equipment that's mostly vintage design if not vintage by actual age. Lathes have really improved and once one gets to see how much one can do on a modern manual machine lathe, and what it's like to have a lathe with nominal runout, it really gets exciting. I've owned a couple South Bends and a Myford and even though I bought units that mic'd out as pretty accurate, they were still rather old designs and it was hard with heavy use to keep them in shape. I wasn't using them for frame building (if I had been trying to do frames, I wouldn't be able to hold my head up in this forum) but I've helped fix problems on lathes for a few builders and have found that frame builders seem to go for pretty vintage lathes. One doesn't need all that much to do miters and facings, but one can do a lot more with a better lathe. Sorry, call me a lathe snob.

[Eric Estlund]

Either of those in decent shape for 2kGBP would be a solid find. Granted, they weigh +/- 4 thousand pounds.



If you want a new one they are about $40k depending on the options.

[Mark Kelly]

No mention yet of Mori Seiki lathes, or the ones made by Hwacheon on the original Mori Seiki designs. Superb lathes. They make some monsters, but the Hwacheon 460 and 580 series are plentiful in great used condition and have great modern features

I just looked these up and they're huge: the 460 is 460mm swing over bed (hence the name) and 1500 spindle length.

Seems like overkill for FB use, is there a smaller lathe that has your "great modern features"?

[VertigoCycles]

I just looked these up and they're huge: the 460 is 460mm swing over bed (hence the name) and 1500 spindle length.

Seems like overkill for FB use, is there a smaller lathe that has your "great modern features"?

Getting a lathe with a bore big enough to chuck up the largest tube you use isn't overkill, it's just right. My lathe is 4K lb and has a 3" through bore, it'll cut metric and imperial threads as well and has enough space in between centers that I can chuck up a full length down tube to do my pre-finishing. I'd say to anyone looking for a lathe, get a big one. I used a SB heavy ten for the past ten years and you couldn't pay me to go back to it.

[Ken Holmes]

So here are some thoughts and things to consider from my experience. To give context Im a hobby builder and made all my own fixtures with machine tools I've purchased. I currently rent shop space. I started building in 2006 and bought my first machine tool, a South Bend 9C in 2007. I bought it for $200 with a basic tooling package. Its a benchtop rear drive model so lathe and motor are mounted on the same surface. Ive probably spent over $1k on tooling for it over the years. It swings 9" has pick off gears for threading and a threaded spindle and a leather belt to drive the spindle.

I get on just fine with this lathe but here are the things I wish for when it comes to bike and bike tool building:

A spindle bore large enough for steerer and head tube material would be awesome. My 9 is a 3/4" bore with a 36" bed, which means I will need to set up a steady rest to square up long head tubes or turn a crown race seat. As you probably understand thats about rigidity and controlling runout. Not a big deal but it does make life complicated as I need to remove the tailstock, set up the steady rest, and change out my toolholder to get the right kind of reach when turning a crown race on a completed fork. But how many times a year do I do this... not often.

Where a larger bore and thus larger machine really gets useful is in the kind of collets it can take. I would love to have 5c capacity directly on my spindle when I need super accurate holding. My solution is either use a 4 jaw chuck or my usual go to a Jacobs Rubberflex collet chuck, which works but does not provide the same level of clamping force. This is really about building tools and having repeatable clamping and low run out thats easy to get to is a major plus.

I found that trying to miter with my lathe did not work very well... the cross slide developed play while cutting and the gib screws from the hammering of the cuts. Locking the gib screws did not provide enough clamping force to keep the slide from wiggling from the pull of the holesaw on the tube. If you can miter on the lathe life gets easy. I just bought a mill instead.

I wish the bed was hardened to lower the amount of bed wear.

I wish I had a quick change gearbox and power feeds. Everything on this lathe is manual. The qc gearbox would save a lot of time, keeps me cleaner, and reduces the mental hassle with selecting the right gears by ensuring that I am not making mistakes with choosing the right reduction gears. I've screwed up the selection more than a few times. Additionally having a power feed that does not run directly off of the leadscrew would be a good thing for wear. This is really a problem with the basic nature of the 9c design, but you might similar while you are shopping. Being able to cut a metric thread would be nice but I have yet to really find it necessary. My shop and tools are standardized around inch sizes and I have a need to make tooling with metric threads.

A bigger lathe with more capability, power, rigidity, and accuracy would be awesome. It always is. But here are some things that I like about my little 9c:

I brought it home in the back of my car. Its small and I can easily take it apart as there are not complicated mechanisms that bolt up or are hydraulic or electrically run. I can move it easily. Parts for it are not egregiously heavy so buying things like chucks or replacement parts can be done through the mail.

Because its simple its easy to run and trouble shoot. Its mechanics are obvious. Its a very popular lathe brand and model, so parts, tooling and knowledge are available (its popularity does have the effect of raising the asking price of parts on ebay).

The quality of the materials and design are great. Its from 1948 and the material decisions as well as fit and finish reflect that.

It is accurate enough for bike building and tool making.

Small lathes are a desirable size... Given the market here I can sell it tomorrow if I needed be.

It has a flat leather belt to drive the spindle from the motor, which will slip under excessive load. While it limits power this has really saved my butt more than a few times when I accidentally crashed a tool and done other dumb stuff.

It runs off of household wall power which is 115v here. So nice and easy. No need for a VFD or higher than normal voltages to run the motor. It has 6 normal and 6 back gear speeds so it has enough different speeds to be all I need.


Hopefully thats helpful. ken

[duanedr]

There's a '49 SB Heavy 10 on CL in Lewiston ID right now. I looked on Lathe.co.uk but he doesn't list a spindle hole size. I seem to remember these having a 1-3/8 or better spindle hole which would be great.

I have an early 80's Jet 1024 with 1-1/16th and I wish I could get a headtube into. Otherwise, it's a great machine. It's compact and I don't miss the length. It's robust enough to do pretty much everything I've needed so far.

1949 South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe

Ex-Boeing machine so, may be fairly well used.

[Eric Estlund]

I can't speak too that machine, but it seems reasonably tooled to get the ball rolling, too.

[EricKeller]

I really liked the heavy 10 we used to have at work. The spindle will clear a 5c collet, so 1 3/8 sounds about right

[Doug Fattic]

I know that the South Bend 10" heavy comes with a 1 3/8" spindle hole. That is a reasonable price. I like having a taper attachment.

[EnginCycles]

There's a '49 SB Heavy 10 on CL in Lewiston ID right now. I looked on Lathe.co.uk but he doesn't list a spindle hole size. I seem to remember these having a 1-3/8 or better spindle hole which would be great.

I have an early 80's Jet 1024 with 1-1/16th and I wish I could get a headtube into. Otherwise, it's a great machine. It's compact and I don't miss the length. It's robust enough to do pretty much everything I've needed so far.

1949 South Bend Heavy 10 Lathe

Ex-Boeing machine so, may be fairly well used.

That machine has "soft" ways so it will be worn (eventually they got flame hardened). It is also a single tumbler which has limited thread pitches and feeds. Last is a threaded spindle. Not the easiest to deal with. OK price but again I suspect it is very worn. Klunkers can still make good parts as long as you know how to use them.

[cardinal-creative]

I know that the South Bend 10" heavy comes with a 1 3/8" spindle hole.

Not all Heavy 10 lathes come with the large spindle thru holes. 10r models have a smaller thru hole and cast bearings as opposed to the 10l model that has the larger thru hole and bronze sleeve bearings. Both have different spindle threads and take different collets.

If you end up with a 10r, you can swap a 10l spindle over easily. Drops right in the head. I'm in the third year of a teardown and rebuild on a clapped out 10r and did the 10l spindle swap along the way.

[Doug Fattic]

Just as a data point there was a South Bend heavy 10L listed west of South Bend, IN on Craigslist that sold for $800 about a week ago. It was probably a 40's model but hardly ever used and in very nice shape. It just sat in the corner of a shop collecting years of dust. It was old enough so the quick change box only had 1 lever instead of 2 but that wouldn't have mattered to me since I wasn't going to cut threads on it anyway. Naturally it sold 20 minutes before I called. The guy that sold it said he was just flipping it to make a few bucks. There are some real deals that can be found if one is very patient. One of my summer class framebuilding students found a decent Bridgeport for only $1000 in September. Of course it didn't have any digital readouts. A year of so ago a South Bend vertical mill was for sale near me for $1200. He obviously set the price for bargaining. He had 2 instruction manuals so I bought one since I didn't have one for my South Bend mill.

Lathes are a versatile machines but requires machining knowledge to take advantage of their features. If one is only going to use it for framebuilding applications like trimming or drilling the ends of seat stays then one can get by with a much less than perfect lathe.