Bikes and how they are ridden

[atmo]

* so if I can round this back to the beginning and ask a non-rhetorical question for a change................ how can we help educate folks both new and old how to better use the bikes they own?

it's not an education issue; it's a culture issue. some folks consume simply to
appropriate and/or co-opt something they are not (nor may ever be...) ready for,
but do it because it involves a label, a consumer good, or a hobby. atmo that's
life, and trying to find ways for everyone to ride the types of bicycles we make
is not reality. the reality is that the different cultures don't mix, but should find
ways to play well, even if it's a chore. personally, i have no problems with opinions
about bicycles. i like what i like, and i also know no one bicycle (or position) suits
all, yet these message boards are primarily about racing and racing type bicycles
rather than comfort bicycles or that ilk. many of the detractors would be better
suited on "other" types of bicycles. the education you mention would be about
letting them know as much, and courteously at that atmo.

[e-RICHIE]

it's not an education issue; it's a culture issue. some folks consume simply to
appropriate and/or co-opt something they are not (nor may ever be...) ready for,
but do it because it involves a label, a consumer good, or a hobby.

gets it atmo.


hey i wanna be

[Dave Kirk]

that e_guy and the atmo guy are smart dudes and lucky to know each other.

Mike still rocks too even if it's just in undie ads.

dave

[handsomerob]

how can we help educate folks both new and old how to better use the bikes they own?...

I haven't been riding very long, but I have been a sponge to all sorts of cycling information. If I encounter an issue, the answer is usually only a quick search or google away.

As far as helping others on the bike, I have found that asking questions BEFORE making assumptions/recommendations makes any advice much better recieved. It also validates it a bit more than hey "that don't look right". For instance...

If I see someone with the nose down on their saddle, I ask if they get any soreness in their shoulders when riding. If the answer is yes, I offer that oftentimes when a saddle isn't level or even a little nose up the rider is unnecessarily expending energy holding themselves from slipping off the front of the saddle. This position also could be causing the soreness they are feeling in their shoulders.

If I see someone that likely has their saddle too low, I ask them how they feel about the extension of their legs on the pedal stroke. If they say anything other than, "it's great", I will offer that they might get more efficient power by raising the saddle a little and go from there.

So, obviously I focus more on the mechanics of the fit than the aesthetics, but one often follows the other.

[GrantM]

Learning for me is a life long process. Sometimes you think you've figured something out,
and then realize that it's best to start over. Learning requires you to come to the subject.
The subject won't come to you, just because you want an answer.

Examples of subjects like Jazz or Architecture, they are complex, and are about relationships between elements,
and have many parts of the puzzle that come together and interact in ways that sometimes seem impossible
to understand all at once. Being a cyclist can feel like that.

So for me, it starts by setting my own mind to a subject and let it draw in my curiosity,
and the desire to figure out how the puzzle works.

When someone chooses to begin a quest for understanding, they are already on the right path.

[Dave Kirk]

Learning for me is a life long process. Sometimes you think you've figured something out,
and then realize that it's best to start over. Learning requires you to come to the subject.
The subject won't come to you, just because you want an answer.

Examples of subjects like Jazz or Architecture, they are complex, and are about relationships between elements,
and have many parts of the puzzle that come together and interact in ways that sometimes seem impossible
to understand all at once. Being a cyclist can feel like that.

So for me, it starts by setting my own mind to a subject and let it draw in my curiosity,
and the desire to figure out how the puzzle works.

When someone chooses to begin a quest for understanding, they are already on the right path.

Those are good words.

dave

[Dekonick]

Swoop - what you say may be true in that most people learn best from having one on one with a mentor. Having said that, there are many types of learners. Some learn by doing, others by reading and analyzing, etc. A skill must be practiced - no doubt. You can't learn to make pottery just by reading a book or searching the internet - but you MIGHT gain some insight from doing so...especially if you also practice and take classes.

Dedication, time, finances, location, and other things can interfere with learning as you suggest - but if I were going to take a lesson, I would want to read up ahead of time.

I still think thest tips DK has started posting will pay dividends to many. A week with Josh might do more, but that isn't available to everyone.

I do agree, however, that a skill is best learned by doing, expecially under the watchful eye of a master.

[swoop]

oh hell yeah.. much love to d kirk for this. the two thoughts aren't exclusive. and anyone that can foster in folks the desire to ride consciously and to pursue skill will get nothing but flowers and love from me. its all i care about too... i just approach it with a cane and a whip because its as sincere to me.

[Greg Costello]

How about the DK clinic somewhere up in the Northern Rockies? I bet you could get both instructors and students to come play.

[WadePatton]

How about the DK clinic somewhere up in the Northern Rockies? I bet you could get both instructors and students to come play.

Bawahh
This IS the clinic and it's worldwide!

I mean, yeah, one on one is the best--but here the smart guys are helping zillions of peeps all at oncemo.

Personally I'm want to get the cm's out of the way and reserve one on one for when mm's mean something. ;) ;)

[jerk]

fuck michael jordan. bird was better and to put things in perspective the game has changed. no one will ever look better on a bike than andrea tafi and michelle bartoli; but no one is ever going to reek of more cologne than fabian cancellara and phillipe gilbert will win a grand tour before any other belgian... hate to say it, but a headfull of epo or not, armstrong in his prime was faster than merckx in his...and this guy should be awarded the trophy by himself after tomorrow. he'd have schooled jordan the same way he schooled lebron and kobe.

40+ point. watch it.


jerk

[Cary Ford]

no one will ever look better on a bike than andrea tafi and michelle bartoli;

ballan is my new favorite guy to watch on the bike, as far as what a guy looks like on the bike.

[jerk]

no one will ever look better on a bike than andrea tafi and michelle bartoli;

ballan is my new favorite guy to watch on the bike, as far as what a guy looks like on the bike.

he does look good. the italians know how to sit on a bike. i've always ridden like that...long low stem, saddle pushed all the way back...limp arms. when i was living in belgium they'd make fun of me; i think its honestly a morphology thing though....guys who excell at bike ridind in northern europe are built differently, they have broader shoulders, shorter limbs. big guys who can hack it in italy are long and lean and all legs and arms....just the way conditions favor the riders i guess.

jerk

[happycampyer]

Maybe you could do a short series we'd make sticky on how you deal with clients who are either inflexible or maybe have a medical condition that results on a frame that does not have race dimensions.

Perhaps there should be a separate general category called "technique & fit," so topics like the riding tips don't end up getting buried in the general discussion over time. And btw, what's wrong with being a hopeless romantic?

[mschol17]

fuck michael jordan. bird was better and to put things in perspective the game has changed. no one will ever look better on a bike than andrea tafi and michelle bartoli; but no one is ever going to reek of more cologne than fabian cancellara and phillipe gilbert will win a grand tour before any other belgian... hate to say it, but a headfull of epo or not, armstrong in his prime was faster than merckx in his...and this guy should be awarded the trophy by himself after tomorrow. he'd have schooled jordan the same way he schooled lebron and kobe.

40+ point. watch it.


jerk

Jerk I usually get what you're saying, but your Boston-based homerism is a little obscene. Bird better than Jordan? Paul Fing Pierce schooling Jordan? Come on. Pierce is a nice player, but he's no Jordan. Remember that hand checks were allowed when Jordan played, and without them nobody would have been able to stop him. He would have averaged 40+ a season.

[Cary Ford]

Learning for me is a life long process. Sometimes you think you've figured something out,
and then realize that it's best to start over. Learning requires you to come to the subject.
The subject won't come to you, just because you want an answer.

Grant has a new name. And that name is Rinpoche.

[Greg Costello]

[quote=WadePatton ]

This IS the clinic and it's worldwide!

I hear ya Wade, I'm just fishing for another excuse to take a bike to Bozeman and ride with some pals! There was a Giro d'Bozeman a while back before I got my Kirks, would love to see another event.

[WadePatton]

This IS the clinic and it's worldwide!

I hear ya Wade, I'm just fishing for another excuse to take a bike to Bozeman and ride with some pals! There was a Giro d'Bozeman a while back before I got my Kirks, would love to see another event.

Heck yeah, when I find myself in Bozeman, there are two guys I'm looking up fer sure.

But for practicality and all, I may road trip up and see TT. If he'll have me. My resume sucks. :D

[SteveP]

Jerk I usually get what you're saying, but your Boston-based homerism is a little obscene. Bird better than Jordan? Paul Fing Pierce schooling Jordan? Come on. Pierce is a nice player, but he's no Jordan. Remember that hand checks were allowed when Jordan played, and without them nobody would have been able to stop him. He would have averaged 40+ a season.

go to a tv and watch pierce eat kobe bryant and spit out the seeds... while mark jackson equates bryant w/ jordan.
if bryant is jordan... then i am eddy merckx... cause i have a bike

jordan was incomparable...bird was the king.

[atmo]

jordan was incomparable...bird was the king.

poochmo atmo -

http://home.earthlink.net/~lnkn/birdjord.htm