VelocipedeSalon WOD: Workout of the day

[defspace]

Would anyone be willing to riff on the differences between "tolerance" and "threshold" work for a bit?

Thanks.

[MarkC]

Would anyone be willing to riff on the differences between "tolerance" and "threshold" work for a bit?

Thanks.

Nomenclature may vary but here is how I use the different terms:

Threshold is your FTP, Critical Power 60, Lactate Threshold. Classical training to increase this number is to do a lot of riding in the 85-102% zone. Current thinking is that "sweetspot" (85-95% more or less) is easier to do, easier to recover from and allows more overall stress accumulation during training. Threshold is the power you do your 40km time trial at. If you go over threshold you spike lactate and eventually you are toast.


Tolerance is how one reacts and recovers to bursts above LT. How one handles the demands of undulating terrain or pack surges for context. Say I'm riding along at 90-100% of FTP. In a pack going fast, TTing, whatever. I need to "PoP" to a higher wattage in order to handle a roller without losing speed or to respond to a pack surge. This requires a brief bump from Threshold into VO2Max territory.


If your have only trained for threshold and have no headroom then your tolerance is low and you can only do this a couple times before your matches are all burned and you can't maintain FTP. You have low tolerance. You increase tolerance by training for it: ride along at 90%, spike to 110-120% for 30-40 seconds, back down to 90%, etc.


While we focus a lot on the FTP number, racing a bicycle (TT, Crit, Road Race, et al) requires far more than sitting at a CP20 or CP60 number churning constant power. That is table stakes or foundational strength. To be a really good rider you need resiliency to go with the base strength. "Tolerance" work is meant to improve that resiliency.


Some numbers.

Many of us doing endurance type events look at 1 min, 5 min, 20 min and 60 min power levels. Most USA racing in the cat 3/4 level is in this time frame. Almost all TTs are going to be 10 mile (CP20) or 25 mile (CP60) courses.

In my case we're looking at an FTP of 240 watts. This is also my LT as determined by MLSS testing. I can do 240w for an hour constant power and as long as I don't need to "pop" more than a couple times I'll recover and be OK.

My CP20 is 260 watts or 108% of FTP. I can do this power for about 22-23 minutes but have to be rested. When riding at this level I have to be careful not to exceed it my much because it's the ragged edge and I'm accumulating lactate. If I jump from 260w constant up into the 270-290 range for more than a few seconds I'll spike lactate a bunch and burn myself very quickly. To recover from that I need to drop down to the 220-230 range (220w in a TT is waaaay different speed than 260w).

My 5 min power is just north of 300w and 1 min is around 450w.

So if any of this makes sense so far, you can see that I've built a diesel motor. Specifically and purposefully for time trialing on flat to lightly rolling courses. I've dramatically improved my 10 and 25 mile times but at a cost of reduced tolerance (or dynamic range or headroom). One way to look at this is 300 / 240 = 1.25. We could say I have a headroom of 25%


When I was doing a lot of crits (cat 3) my FTP and CP20 were lower (230 and 250), but my 5 min was 330 and 1 min was 500w. My 5s was 1050w which is pathetic but I'm a small guy - 60kg and it is what it is.

In this case 330 / 230 is 1.43 or a headroom of 43% Very different motor than at present.


Don't get too wrapped up in the specifics, that's just for discussion.

So what does it matter? Well, if I go out and do a crit today I suffer like a dog. I can surf wheels and finish in the pack in a 35+, 45+ fast race but it's not easy. After a few laps of jump - coast - jump - coast my legs are unhappy. Specificity of training has eliminated the head room. This also means that I'm slower on heavily rolling / hilly TT courses than I want to be.


In my case, having significantly improved my FTP and CP20 it came at a loss of tolerance. To make the next jump in performance and compete on courses where constant power isn't the fastest way to race I need to add in more tolerance work and increase that headroom.

Some coaches will say that headroom shouldn't drop under 20% for a time trial or pure endurance guy. 30-35% is probably a better number for all around riders. I'm shooting to get back into that range.

Hope that helps and/or sparks the discussion.

-Mark

[defspace]

Hope that helps and/or sparks the discussion.

-Mark

Absolutely! Thanks, Mark. Good clear info.

[rec head]

My workout schedule has been out of whack for a while now but I'm still at it a 2-3 times/week. I did the P90X3 "Challenge" workout with my wife a couple days ago. It is 8 sets of push ups and pull ups followed by 2 minutes of 1 pull up and 3 push ups. I was surprised at how well I did. I felt it the next day but in that good way.

[rec head]

Thanks for that last post Mark. I was thinking about it a lot doing my first fast group ride in probably a year. I definitely don't have much tolerance. I'm really bad at "popping" to catch attacks.

[MarkC]

Been a long ten days with a ton of volume and some long 90-100% efforts thrown in. Up in Connecticut to visit Mom and Dad and that means riding the Land Shark with no power meter. Did three rides on RPE and loved them. Just riding for a change rather than slaving to the power meter. Also, Dad is 76 now so riding with him is great and serves as long slow distance.

Back home during the week threw in a series of 2-3 hour hilly rides including one insane group session bombing up and down.

Tough 13 mile time trial yesterday hitting a PR by 15 seconds. Not bad in the middle of a big block.

Today caps it off with a few hours of zone 2. Going to end up with 22 hours in ten days. Not epic but nice to do some longer rides instead of hammering 60-75 min interval sessions.

[MarkC]

While typing.... wanted to add that am continuing with the weight lifting and core work through the season. Find that I'm somewhat addicted to both. Have always liked weightlifting and it's nice to be able to pick stuff up and put stuff down. Turns out that is a more useful thing in life than pedaling a bike (who knew...?).

Somewhere on VS we have a home gym thread but I couldn't find it quickly. We have a nice set up with a half-rack, lots of dumbbells, oodles of free weights, a 12 x 12 mat area, nice pull up bar bolted to the floor joists and we just added a stand alone lat machine (Body Solid unit that takes normal plates, not a bad piece for $400). I say "we" because the wife uses the basement gym everyday and is fanatical. I started using it to supplement the cycling.


*** Thought I'd ask you guys what lifting programs are in favor ***

My normal routine is about 3X per week after the bike ride I'll do the following:

Bench Press
Bicep Curls
Overhand Row
Triceps
Lat pull down (was using resistance bands, now have the lat machine)

All fairly low weights / high rep stuff. I just leave the bars set up and do circuits. Nothing overly scientific, just started doing it.

For Core its mostly planks but started adding some new moves to mix it up:

Front Planks
Side planks
Killer Twists (8lb ball)
Resistance twists (elastic band)
Mountain Climbers

I plank for about 6-8 minutes, mtn climb for a minute, the 2 x 10 each side with the resistance twists and a couple minutes of killer twists. I hate crunches and sit ups so tend to avoid them. Have started doing some planking incorporating a balance ball. The planking stuff started as a challenge this winter and I just kept going. Now its part of my routine and can do anywhere which is nice when on the road for work.

Core is 5x a week and 3x or so for the weights.


So with that rambling.... If I were looking to take the weight lifting up a notch for fall/winter but not go crazy, what would you guys add? In the past I've avoided adding leg exercises because I worry about injury and my knees. However, am considering adding squats and dead lifts. Upper body maybe some clean and jerk movements and/or overhead presses.

Looking to keep this simple and fun. Simple for speed, fun so I'll keep doing it. Ideally 20-25 minute lifting so it is easy to incorporate after the riding. As to purpose, this may help my time trailing and bike racing but that is a secondary objective. Mostly interested in the physical balance and health benefits.

Tnx,

-Mark

[mzilliox]

I need a riding partner like you, we train similar. Thanks for sharing your training plans

I'm the opposite - have done so much steady state training and purposely worked on holding constant power that all I'm good at anymore is cranking out the same power for days on end. Diesel motor to the max.

Have specifically added in more VO2max and Tolerance work (30/30 being the classic but 20/40, 30/60, etc all work too) to gain back some versatility and to be better at rolling TT courses where constant power does not produce the fastest possible time.

For crit / road racers add in some telephone pole sprints too. Old school terminology :-)

Fun stuff this bike training.

[EightySixer]

While typing.... wanted to add that am continuing with the weight lifting and core work through the season. Find that I'm somewhat addicted to both. Have always liked weightlifting and it's nice to be able to pick stuff up and put stuff down. Turns out that is a more useful thing in life than pedaling a bike (who knew...?).

Somewhere on VS we have a home gym thread but I couldn't find it quickly. We have a nice set up with a half-rack, lots of dumbbells, oodles of free weights, a 12 x 12 mat area, nice pull up bar bolted to the floor joists and we just added a stand alone lat machine (Body Solid unit that takes normal plates, not a bad piece for $400). I say "we" because the wife uses the basement gym everyday and is fanatical. I started using it to supplement the cycling.


*** Thought I'd ask you guys what lifting programs are in favor ***

My normal routine is about 3X per week after the bike ride I'll do the following:

Bench Press
Bicep Curls
Overhand Row
Triceps
Lat pull down (was using resistance bands, now have the lat machine)

All fairly low weights / high rep stuff. I just leave the bars set up and do circuits. Nothing overly scientific, just started doing it.

For Core its mostly planks but started adding some new moves to mix it up:

Front Planks
Side planks
Killer Twists (8lb ball)
Resistance twists (elastic band)
Mountain Climbers

I plank for about 6-8 minutes, mtn climb for a minute, the 2 x 10 each side with the resistance twists and a couple minutes of killer twists. I hate crunches and sit ups so tend to avoid them. Have started doing some planking incorporating a balance ball. The planking stuff started as a challenge this winter and I just kept going. Now its part of my routine and can do anywhere which is nice when on the road for work.

Core is 5x a week and 3x or so for the weights.


So with that rambling.... If I were looking to take the weight lifting up a notch for fall/winter but not go crazy, what would you guys add? In the past I've avoided adding leg exercises because I worry about injury and my knees. However, am considering adding squats and dead lifts. Upper body maybe some clean and jerk movements and/or overhead presses.

Looking to keep this simple and fun. Simple for speed, fun so I'll keep doing it. Ideally 20-25 minute lifting so it is easy to incorporate after the riding. As to purpose, this may help my time trailing and bike racing but that is a secondary objective. Mostly interested in the physical balance and health benefits.

Tnx,

-Mark

Shoulders while balancing on the Bosu ball. Use the platform side until you can stand on the side with just the half ball facing up. that is much harder. This helps strengthen the secondary/stability muscles, tendons, ligaments in the legs and lower half while getting upper body work in.

12 reps ea. front delts
10 reps ea. side delts while holding the opposite arm extended out, parallel to the ground
12-15 reps reverse flys
Set down the dumbbells and into body weight squats 20-30 reps
immediately onto the abb ball, toes pressed on the third block on the wall so that the core is engaged constantly and I go to failure.
Sometimes adding diamond push ups to the mix if I am crunched for time
repeat the cycle with little or no rest 3-4 times

I enjoy that workout. Sometimes I push up on dumbbells with each rep doing a row with the dumbbell. I really like push pull work in any fashion also. Light weight, high reps, high intensity. One repping 295 on the flat bench no longer appeals to me, similar work to what i said above helps keep the strength to weight ratio at a peak without taking from my endurance.

Also i very much enjoy one armed pull ups, I weight 165 and take off 120lbs. Go ten to twelve reps a side and then quickly pull all weight off and rep regular pull ups to failure. I vary the width of my grip on each set to activate as much of my lats as possible.

I love planks like you said too, but i like to do the abb ball to go to failure before even starting planks. Always, always use the ball with the toes against the wall, core constantly activated throughout the motion- like you are hanging your back off a ledge. Roll off the ball into a plank, straight into a side plank then over to the opposite side. This will really dig into the time needed to actually start to feel the planks. I alternate which side plank I move into as well.

Like this but I wasn't yet strong enough to do the full routine at any sort of intensity being off from the surgery. Maybe you would like it as well.

[hmai18]

2x(3x3) @ 120%
Couldn't get my legs to do a 3rd set, so i settled for 15min at FTP instead.

[MarkC]

WOD taking some hits due to race and travel schedule.

Friday was openers and three hour drive to a 40km TT on Saturday

40km race on Saturday was solid but heat played a big role in the time. HR was elevated 10 beats above what is normal for FTP effort. Ouch. 57:30 and would have gone sub 56 if it was 80 instead of 90. That's life, gotta do the race, not phone in the could-a-been time.

8 mile point to point TT on Sunday went well. A bit of fatigue kept me from my best but managed a solid 260w effort and mentally made it through some spots where giving up and claiming 40 km day before fatigue would have been an acceptable excuse. Self talk of: "Two miles is four minutes but regret lasts all winter" worked.

This week is mostly sweet-spot and some rolling rides to keep the legs moving and recover. Very difficult 15 mile circuit TT on Saturday and looking to both PR and Podium.

Still lifting 2-3 days a week.

Season has 6 weeks left then back into build and train mode so posts will get more interesting again.

[BSUdude]

Like many of you I have been "enjoying" the 90+ degree highs, 90-100% humidity, and 100+ degree plus heat index of the past few days. Conditions like this make it hard to do interval workouts, at least for me, w/o totally blowing HR or backing down power by at least 5%. Even so, doing those kind of efforts in these types of conditions puts more stress on the body and mind than normal, which can be counterproductive in the long run. I had a stroke of genius this Saturday though. There is a hill close that runs up a valley and is 90% in the shade. It is the perfect length for 3min efforts, and the cooler temps afforded by the tree cover make intervals bearable even with the extreme temps. It worked great! Did 6x3min @ 110-120% FTP on 3min rest.

[MarkC]

85 degrees and up I ride indoors. May seem crazy but keeps the quality of the workout intact.

Had a 15 mile TT past Saturday and temps were 90+ Absolutely brutal. Hand a peak HR PR 6 miles in. I'm too old to be setting peak HR PRs.

[MarkC]

Good Week even with unsettled weather and a bunch of rain. Fortunately I don't mind rollers in the basement so if its wet the ride still gets done.

Monday - Inside: 60 min of 80% Sweet Spot

Tuesday - Inside: 60 min with 10 x 30s ramp efforts (a ramp is 15 seconds at LT then 15s all out)

Wednesday - Outside: 60 min with 2 x 7 min efforts at CP20 and 1 x 25 min at 85%

Thursday - Inside: 75 min with a 1 x 45 min at 90%

Friday - off

Saturday - Outside: 2 hours on the road; NP of 200w which is an IF of 80% e.g. JRA at a nice tempo

Sunday - Outside: 1.5 hours on the road between rain storms. First hour at 85% with some nice climbs up in the LT / LT+ range

Also lifted a couple times this week and did the core routine four days (bit of a slacker, gotta get back to 5-6 days a week for core).

Three more TTs in August then fall / early winter is "just riding". Just riding is mostly the same as now but the weekend rides get longer since there is no need for fresh legs on race day.

-Mark

[MarkC]

Here is a fun 75 minutes to work on tolerance and sweetspot:

Warm-up 8 to 10 minutes

2 min at 120%
8 min at 85%
Repeat 6 times (total of 12 min at 120% and 48 min at 85% -- good stuff!!!)

5-10 min cooldown (or whatever you need)

Fairly difficult workout if done on a trainer. There is no magic to the 2/8 ratio. Can do on a loop with a 1.5-3.0 min hill for example. If holding 80-85% is too much during the "recovery" knock it back to 65-70% and work your way up.

I find the 90-270 second range for these types of efforts is about right on the trainer. The "recovery" period starts to go by quickly as you hit the 4th, 5th, 6th rep. Pretty soon you are done, the time flew by and you have a nice workout in the books.

--Mark

[rec head]

Mark thanks for keeping it going. Something about the humidity takes some of the fun out of riding. Plus I hurt my wrist in a crash and have been taking it easy on the weights. Motivation is loowwww. I've thought about doing some AM Trainer Road just to keep a little fitness.

[BSUdude]

Last night:

3 min @ 65%-70% FTP, 1 min @ 100% FTP, 1 min @ 130-135% FTP, 1 min easy for 30 min, 5 min easy, repeat.

[hmai18]

3x ladders (1m max, 3m 120%, 5m 100%). 5m rest between efforts.
4m low cadence seated @ 100%.

[David Tollefson]

For me last Saturday, it was an open-water swim. I did the swim leg of a sprint triathlon relay. Mind you, I haven't done any kind of swim training in probably three years. I felt good to the turn buoy, got there first in my wave... and then the wheels started coming off. Got dizzy, tired, form started breaking down. I turned over to backstroke a couple times, but still made it out of the water with only one person passing me. Then we went to help my mom move into a new apartment. I'm still feeling flat.

[MarkC]

Racing season is over. Spent the last ten days mountain biking with five more to go. Then some business travel, then back at it with build Oct/Nov/Dec. Workouts will be posted.