The world is officially upside down.

[Burnette]

As long as we could get together for a nice cold IPA afterwards! Beer Summit part 2!

I would be down with that!

I equate kicking wedge issues up to the level to where common ground is lost is kust like us fighting about two sports teams and falling out about it to the point we don't talk, don't like and demonize each other. Look how distracted we were that all of the jobs leaving our country, our health care costs and our bridges falling apart took bottom billing to wedge issues. Gays will always be gay, there are so many guns in the US and people who want them will have them and abortion will always be a part of law, so I don't bother to argue about them to the point it destroys relationships. If we disagree, fine, you're still a good person. Had I growed up were and when you did I may agree with you. Or not, who nows. But we're close to the same on almost everything else, trust me and that's the bigger push I'm trying make.

The US government has failed us with jobs, healthcare, infrastructure and education and they are more than happy to talk about wedge issues. It creats the division that fills the coffers. It pained me so to talk to people I respected and to hear them say that they would vote for someone who lined up with their position on a wedge issue even though that person wasn't the best choice. I pray that changes and again, with Trump, the litmus test went out the window and again, for that I'm happy. I didn't vote for him btw (he's a molotov cocktail) and I don't blame anyone for not voting for Hillary (she's more of the same wrong direction). It was a true rock and a hard place election.

In NC we are talking about bathrooms (HB2 distraction bill) when Duke power poisoned our drinking water with leaking ash ponds and (I have a daughter and hear this from teachers who are republican and democrat) our schools were defunded (we lost many teacher's assistants) to allocate money wasted and misspent in other areas.

Trust me, their biggest fears are that you and I come together and hold them accountable for their freakin' jobs. And while wedge issues are important, we shouldn't let them distract us from the fact that they have done absolutely nothing for us and instead worked only to hold power for themselves. Won't pass a good bill because it came from the other side of the isle? Vote them out. Want to waste tax payer money on party politics with committees? Vote them out.

Stay with me here. We have way more in common than you may think.

[Sbti]

How do you the drinking water thing will go there, Flint and countless other places. The EPA does drinking water. Putting a non-science guy to lead transition of a science agency. Sounds about right.

Trump Picks Top Climate Skeptic to Lead EPA Transition - Scientific American

In NC we are talking about bathrooms (HB2 distraction bill) when Duke power poisoned our drinking water with leaking ash ponds and (I have a daughter and hear this from teachers who are republican and democrat) our schools were defunded (we lost many teacher's assistants) to allocate money wasted and misspent in other areas.

[Corso]

I would be down with that!

Stay with me here. We have way more in common than you may think.

My eldest daughter went to NC State, and after she graduates from med school in CT, she says she’s moving back to NC! Her boyfriend is getting his doctorate at Duke. Smart kid, he’s answered many of my questions about many things in the South, as he grew up “in the hills”.

My wife says we’re moving too! I’ve spent some time there, both for business & family.

Just what you need, more northern transplants!

[Burnette]

How do you the drinking water thing will go there, Flint and countless other places. The EPA does drinking water. Putting a non-science guy to lead transition of a science agency. Sounds about right.

Trump Picks Top Climate Skeptic to Lead EPA Transition - Scientific American

Our govenor (republican) use to work for Duke power and showed them favortism. He was found to have helped them recieve minor fines and he silenced scientist who found the water undrinkable. He has done a terrible job and hid behind HB2. I don't look to Trump to do anything about it, it's a local thing. Hopefully our governor will lose on his recount appeal and he will be gone. The next govenor (democrat) should be voted out when his term is up if he doesn't do a good job. Regardless of party. That's the way this is suppose to work.

EPA says that in Flint that the local government didn't follow proper proceudre. I don't expect Trump to do anything about it. It should come from the states up from the people, through representatives. Do you see how foreign that sounds to some? We could talk Trump all day long but the local governments didn't do their job in both cases. We have a process and it works if we hold them accountable and stop fighting ideological fights.

[Burnette]

My eldest daughter went to NC State, and after she graduates from med school in CT, she says she’s moving back to NC! Her boyfriend is getting his doctorate at Duke. Smart kid, he’s answered many of my questions about many things in the South, as he grew up “in the hills”.

My wife says we’re moving too! I’ve spent some time there, both for business & family.

Just what you need, more northern transplants!

Awesome! It's agreat state for cycling.

[vertical_doug]

List of United States federal executive orders - Wikipedia

For all the talk about how dictatorial Obama is with executive orders, the trend in recent years has been declining. With Trump's personality, it will be fascinating how he issues executive orders. Obama averaged only 31.3 per year. George W Bush 36, and Clinton 45. FDR topped out at 290 per year. Even Jimmy Carter average nearly 70..... You see where I am going with this....

[Todd Amunrud]

I think a more clear picture of a Trump cabinet is building. I'm a little nervous with Stephen Bannon's influence.

Donald Trump Taps Reince Priebus As Chief Of Staff, Steve Bannon As Chief Strategist : The Two-Way : NPR
Stephen Bannon - Wikipedia

[Will Neide]

there are so many arguments in favour for NO guns... thousands of forum pages, statistics and so on. no, no need to write them down, any open minded human being knows them....

and if you need/want own a gun, for whatever reasons, there is something wrong in the system you live in.

I helped my dads neighbor track a deer his son shot today. Kid must of been in middle school and he was well aware of how to handle the gun. Lots of good food there. Then I went mountain biking and passed a bunch of guys trout fishing. I'm guessing they will be eating well tonight too. I like this system.

[Sbti]

I don't know what HB2 is.

I do know a LOT about Flint. The city didn't follow proper procedures because there wasn't enough oversight by the state for them to know what to do. Flint had an old water treatment plant on the Flint river from back in the '60s. Then they switched to Detroit water to save money. But they ran it 6 hours a quarter to "make sure it works" as a back up. Detroit, under budget constraints put the screws to Flint and raised their rates. Treating lousy river water is much more complex than receiving already treated water from Detroit. City staff cut and minimal. State staff cut and minimal. The repub gov. and their emergency managers told Flint to switch back to the river to "save money". No support. No pilot studies on the current state of river water. The state acts as an agent of the EPA through primacy of the Safe Drinking Water Act. There wasn't enough oversight of the state by EPA. A cluster fuck on all sides to be sure. But my point is that EPA sets the standards for Flint's water, your water, and the admin. sets the level of support to the agency, ultimately to the states, to make sure it works. In a non-science, "don't need no overbearing regulations", cost cutting administration how do you think it will go?

Our govenor (republican) use to work for Duke power and showed them favortism. He was found to have helped them recieve minor fines and he silenced scientist who found the water undrinkable. He has done a terrible job and hid behind HB2. I don't look to Trump to do anything about it, it's a local thing. Hopefully our governor will lose on his recount appeal and he will be gone. The next govenor (democrat) should be voted out when his term is up if he doesn't do a good job. Regardless of party. That's the way this is suppose to work.

EPA says that in Flint that the local government didn't follow proper proceudre. I don't expect Trump to do anything about it. It should come from the states up from the people, through representatives. Do you see how foreign that sounds to some? We could talk Trump all day long but the local governments didn't do their job in both cases. We have a process and it works if we hold them accountable and stop fighting ideological fights.

[jclay]

....I like this system.

That's good because the cost is about 30,000 deaths, far more maimings and who knows how many millions of dollars in medical, litigation and lost productivity, annually. I wonder what that works out to in cost per pound of meat?

[Burnette]

I don't know what HB2 is.

I do know a LOT about Flint. The city didn't follow proper procedures because there wasn't enough oversight by the state for them to know what to do. Flint had an old water treatment plant on the Flint river from back in the '60s. Then they switched to Detroit water to save money. But they ran it 6 hours a quarter to "make sure it works" as a back up. Detroit, under budget constraints put the screws to Flint and raised their rates. Treating lousy river water is much more complex than receiving already treated water from Detroit. City staff cut and minimal. State staff cut and minimal. The repub gov. and their emergency managers told Flint to switch back to the river to "save money". No support. No pilot studies on the current state of river water. The state acts as an agent of the EPA through primacy of the Safe Drinking Water Act. There wasn't enough oversight of the state by EPA. A cluster fuck on all sides to be sure. But my point is that EPA sets the standards for Flint's water, your water, and the admin. sets the level of support to the agency, ultimately to the states, to make sure it works. In a non-science, "don't need no overbearing regulations", cost cutting administration how do you think it will go?

*We agree on the cause here. Sure, the EPA says they didn't act fast enough, but state officials didn't follow proper procedure, weren't transparent, they hid problems. Same as here in NC. I'm talking about voting and diffferences and I'm saying we are more the same than different and that we need to get rid of the politicians that don't work for the people. I'm telling you to vote them out whether they align with you on party or hot button issues or not. EPA has a role, hold them responsible too, sure. But the people we voted in, the state officials, they made the water change and lied about the contamination afterwards for months. Vote them all out. That's the thrust of my argument.

As to what Trump will or won't do now, well, it's early and out of my control. And at this point, contemplating what will happen now isn't a good use of time IMO. That's for another discussion down the road for when he actually does something.

*EPA admits fault, blames Michigan officials over Flint

[Drew]

I would be down with that!

I equate kicking wedge issues up to the level to where common ground is lost is kust like us fighting about two sports teams and falling out about it to the point we don't talk, don't like and demonize each other. Look how distracted we were that all of the jobs leaving our country, our health care costs and our bridges falling apart took bottom billing to wedge issues. Gays will always be gay, there are so many guns in the US and people who want them will have them and abortion will always be a part of law, so I don't bother to argue about them to the point it destroys relationships. If we disagree, fine, you're still a good person. Had I growed up were and when you did I may agree with you. Or not, who nows. But we're close to the same on almost everything else, trust me and that's the bigger push I'm trying make.

The US government has failed us with jobs, healthcare, infrastructure and education and they are more than happy to talk about wedge issues. It creats the division that fills the coffers. It pained me so to talk to people I respected and to hear them say that they would vote for someone who lined up with their position on a wedge issue even though that person wasn't the best choice. I pray that changes and again, with Trump, the litmus test went out the window and again, for that I'm happy. I didn't vote for him btw (he's a molotov cocktail) and I don't blame anyone for not voting for Hillary (she's more of the same wrong direction). It was a true rock and a hard place election.

In NC we are talking about bathrooms (HB2 distraction bill) when Duke power poisoned our drinking water with leaking ash ponds and (I have a daughter and hear this from teachers who are republican and democrat) our schools were defunded (we lost many teacher's assistants) to allocate money wasted and misspent in other areas.

Trust me, their biggest fears are that you and I come together and hold them accountable for their freakin' jobs. And while wedge issues are important, we shouldn't let them distract us from the fact that they have done absolutely nothing for us and instead worked only to hold power for themselves. Won't pass a good bill because it came from the other side of the isle? Vote them out. Want to waste tax payer money on party politics with committees? Vote them out.

Stay with me here. We have way more in common than you may think.

Amen. From another NC resident (who may lean a little on the opposite side). Difficult to choose between the two options this time around. Local issues much more important, but when I talked to folks about who should be the next county commissioner and why, they don't even know who is running. I strongly dislike our current media machine. Best I can do is read Fox, then read CNN, and then assume that reality is roughly halfway between them.

[Will Neide]

That's good because the cost is about 30,000 deaths, far more maimings and who knows how many millions of dollars in medical, litigation and lost productivity, annually. I wonder what that works out to in cost per pound of meat?

I won't discourage you from fighting for the protection of the lives lost.

[Burnette]

Amen. From another NC resident (who may lean a little on the opposite side). Difficult to choose between the two options this time around. Local issues much more important, but when I talked to folks about who should be the next county commissioner and why, they don't even know who is running. I strongly dislike our current media machine. Best I can do is read Fox, then read CNN, and then assume that reality is roughly halfway between them.

I'll be off topic in Off Topic for a minute to say, don't we have one of the best places to ride a bike here in the state of NC? I've been off the bike for a bit and miss it. Next week things should calm down enough for me to get back to it.

On topic, I'm so with you. Decipfering the news through the lens of a Rachel Madow or a Bill O'Reilly is about impossible. A mouth piece for one side diguised as impartial news is so off putting to me. It's an insult. And as much as I balked at the right's complaint of a slanted media it did become very clear that there wasn't much middle of the road reporting on this election from any side.

At least you endeavor to look for truth, you know the players in the game and you are open to different takes on a subject. That's commendable and I wish more of us were like that.

[Drew]

I'll be off topic in Off Topic for a minute to say, don't we have one of the best places to ride a bike here in the state of NC? I've been off the bike for a bit and miss it. Next week things should calm down enough for me to get back to it.

Absolutely. It's awesome. 4 season riding. You can ride gravel for miles, ride a MTB on some of the best singletrack anywhere, see beautiful overlooks, ride peaceful roads, and even see a castle.

Politically, I'm a live and let live type of guy. I try to make informed decisions that are best for me and my family, especially my kids. That goes for everything in life, not just politics - what we eat, where we live, how we spend our money, and how I vote. I also think it's unfortunate that church seems to be a social club here in NC. I've stopped attending. I live my life the right way and don't feel the need to gather with others and talk about football for half a day every week... with a side of church. I have my relationship and faith and I don't push it on others. Live your life the right way, and be humble about it. I feel like I learn more at the top of Kitsuma or Black Mountain than I ever can at a church.

I just wish I could find some politicians who live the right way. I'd say that makes me political party independent... I'm with the "make the world a better place party," sometimes that's blue, sometimes that's red. There are local politicians who are like this, but not national... our system has made it near impossible to get to that level without underhandedness.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[TheNerdyCyclist]

Amen. From another NC resident (who may lean a little on the opposite side). Difficult to choose between the two options this time around. Local issues much more important, but when I talked to folks about who should be the next county commissioner and why, they don't even know who is running. I strongly dislike our current media machine. Best I can do is read Fox, then read CNN, and then assume that reality is roughly halfway between them.

Read Reuters, then read BBC News, then read Al Jazeera. And subscribe+read NYT. Season with a tiny bit of newstainment (cnn, msnbc, fox news, huffpo, etc.).

That's my recipe.

And from a former NC resident (went to Duke for my PhD and rode with Duke Cycling), it is spectacular riding out there. All you new transplants are in for a treat.

[EricKeller]

WaPo is free to amazon prime subscribers right now. NYT is dead to me, they're still going on about emails when there is going to be an unabashed anti-semite white supremacist in the white house as the top adviser to the president. Reading Fox and Cnn and assuming that there is something truthful in between is not going to work. CNN fired people that were skeptical about Trump and hired apologists. They were more pro-Trump than Fox.

[Scott G.]

First the pathetic, Newsweek has out their "Madame President Special" on the shelf at my LBS.
Irony lives in the midwest bookstores.

News faves
BBC & NPR, The Economist, New York Review of Books and Aviation Week.
Sometimes The WSJ, just don't like the Murdoch version near as much as the old one.
And since a Republican? is in office, resubbed to USNI Proceedings.

[davids]

The Bannon appointment is terrible news. It foreshadows a divide-and-conquer communication strategy based on demonizing minorities.

It's time to get off the couch and in the game. Our President-elect needs to hear from his constituents.

[TheNerdyCyclist]

Truth. Regardless of your political affiliation or how you voted, Bannon is not your friend. He is a propagandist whose main goal is restricting freedom of press, assembly, and speech.

If you count yourself a patriot who values liberties, then you must oppose this vigorously. Time to write, call, blog, tweet, email and if necessary, march.