New Kitchens / Remodels

[davids]

Same same DavidS.

[davids]

Less obvious progress this week:

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It's beginning to look like home again.
Countertop is in, stove & refrigerator are staged in the next room, and the backsplash arrives tomorrow.
Floors are refinished over the weekend while we flee town, and then the finish work.

[davids]

So close I can taste it.
First day making coffee in the kitchen - just don't expect to find anything in the cabinets yet...

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[davids]

And we're back.

Cabinets full-up, furniture delivered, art on the walls and roses on the table:

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We've had swordfish; pasta; and omelettes so far. First pizzas on queue for tonight!

We'll be ordering a roller shade for the window next week. And at some point soon that "B" will come down.

[wgp]

Congrats on the new kitchen - looks great!!

[Tamu8104]

Great thread!! We are planning on a kitchen refresh next year and a lot of information to consider here. Will definitely reference back as we begin to make plans.

[TMB]

So, we just got word from the "designer" that our kitchen is in the running for the gold medal in the spring Canadian Home Builder Awards .....

This should be interesting.

[davids]

Two months later, here's some thought about my project:

The design was primary. Early on we talked to a couple architects. We were hoping they'd have some brilliant ideas about our space. Nope. One told us she liked our ideas a lot. The other showed us plans she'd done for other jobs and talked about her fee structure. Blech. We decided to work closely with our GC and avoid anything that would require an architect. I think our GC needed to bring in a structural engineer to OK our 10' long window, but the rest of the design we did ourselves, including plans to tear out one closet, re-configure another, and open up a wall. We did well, if I do say so myself - Nothing major from a structural perspective, but transformative in terms of layout, usability and openness.

We got the 'work triangle' sussed, with long open counters along two sides of the triangle, between the fridge & sink and the stove & sink. It's a long narrow triangle and moving between the workspaces is little more than a matter of turning around. I find I'll often eat breakfast standing along the peninsula (which we did not set up as a spot to pull up a stool.) It's that nice.

We initially talked about squeezing in a banquette opposite the peninsula, but after obsessive measuring we decided that a small custom-sized table and chairs would work better, and provide more flexibility. My wife actually created a full-size cardboard rectangle to nail down the table size to the inch. Our plan was to put the long edge of the 45"x30" table (Portica Thin from Room & Board) along the wall, and have four chairs (Hirsch from Room & Board) arranged 1-2-1. That configuration lasted for 15 minutes - we turned the table 90 degrees so the short edge was at the wall and put 2 chairs on each of the long sides. Perfect. My wife calls it our Tasting Table, where honored guests can sit and watch a master chef at work...

We went with stock cabinets from Kemper. High quality, and a deep enough product line so that we could pretty much get anything we could imagine wanting. We used one of their sister brands, Schrock, in our last kitchen and after 13 years those were basically working perfectly. My wife also obsessed over storage, cataloging our old kitchen, and then the 'temporary' kitchen in this house, so she could figure out where everything should go (and feel comfortable that everything would go!) She nailed it. Everything fits.

Someone mentioned composting - we've got a bin on a slide-out under the peninsula counter. Easy peasy to slide the compostables right in. The recycling bin sits directly under the compost. We often fill it twice a week. The garbage can, on the other hand, easily goes a week on a single bag. It's on the other side of the sink, and the layout works very well.

We splurged on the countertops and backsplash, manufactured quartz from Cambria. My wife really dislikes the look of tiled backsplashes, and also pointed out that they'd be a pain in the ass to keep clean. Smooth expanses of quartz wipe clean with a sponge.

I know some of you are concerned about the number of outlets in the work space. We’re doing fine, thanks!

The lighting is the one thing we could've done better. We left the five ceiling cans where they were in the old kitchen, and just upgraded them to LED. The under-cabinet LED lights are fantastic, and the retro fixture above the kitchen table continues to get more compliments than any other single thing in the house. But we should have added another can over the sink. Mid-winter dinner dishes are done in the shadows...

And speaking of the sink, I wish we could have fit a larger one. The Kohler K-3822-1-NA is 25”x22”, and another 3” of width would be ideal. It's a very nice sink, but I’m conscious of how little working room I’ve got once there’s a pile of dishes in there.

Appliances: Nothing high-end, thanks. For the most part the quality seems to drop after a certain pricepoint.

• Stove: GE Profile PGS950EEFES, gas with two ovens, including convection. Who needs a stupid drawer for potlids when you can have two ovens? 30" wide, five burners under a grate that extends to each corner of the range.
• Hood: Zephyr Breeze II. We got the highest CFM we could (400) without having to get into makeup air.
• Refrigerator: I continue to insist on a counter-depth model - It doesn't protrude into the kitchen, integrates with the surrounding cabinetry and makes it easy to locate stuff stuck in the back corners. We also wanted black. That didn't leave a lot of choices. The Samsung RF23HCEDBBC/AA is more than acceptable, although its ice production is kind of unimpressive and the filtered water tastes more metallic than it should. We didn't think we’d be happy with the French doors. We are.
• Microwave: GE JES1460DSBB, which sits on a shelf above the counter. No 'built-in', thanks! This is much cheaper and, when it dies like all microwaves do, it will be a cinch to replace. If our space was bigger we would have figured out a way to have it below counter-level, but it's more than acceptable where it is.
• Dishwasher: Years ago the guy who fixed our appliances told us to get the cheapest Bosch possible and that we'd be happy. Yep - Bosch Ascenta SHS5AV56U.

No hard-wired speakers. I’ve got a Sonos Play:1 across the room on a shelf. And when the next great technology comes along it will be easy to adopt.

Finally. Did I say the design was primary? Nope. The single most important decision we made was on our general contractor. He was simply fantastic. On time, on budget, and open & accommodating when we ran into issues. He handled relationships and coordination with every other tradesman & vendor, just like a GC should! I have no idea if we could have saved thousands working with someone else. I don't care. He was worth it, and made this project as exciting and pain-free as possible. We helped him by making 98% of our decisions and choices before the first day of work. It was a win-win for the team.

[mzilliox]

Starting to think about Kitchen remodel, great info here, thanks all. here is hat i plan to build my kitchen around. not yet decided on color, but one of these beasts will be the centerpiece.

[dave1215]

...here is hat i plan to build my kitchen around. not yet decided on color, but one of these beasts will be the centerpiece....

Funny, I built a kitchen in my Connecticut home around a LaCanche range in 1998 and built a kitchen in my Florida home around a LaCanche range just last year. They are significantly more expensive now that, among other things, Art Culinaire is their exclusive US distributor. Back in 1998 we were dealing in French Francs (pre-€) and my wife bought the range at an appliance store in Paris on her way from a business meeting to the airport - shipping and import process went swimmingly and it turned out to be a bargain.

We've had other high end ranges with which we have been pleased but this one (a) fit the gestalt of our new home, (b) is a low-tech high-tactile instrument that keeps a chef in touch with his activity, and (c) is approximately half the price of LaCornue which seems to be more of a fashion statement. I think I might have posted earlier in this very thread a number of photos of professional chefs with the LaCanche ranges they purchased for their own homes. Let me know if you have any questions or if I can be helpful in any way.

[mzilliox]

Funny, I built a kitchen in my Connecticut home around a LaCanche range in 1998 and built a kitchen in my Florida home around a LaCanche range just last year. They are significantly more expensive now that, among other things, Art Culinaire is their exclusive US distributor. Back in 1998 we were dealing in French Francs (pre-€) and my wife bought the range at an appliance store in Paris on her way from a business meeting to the airport - shipping and import process went swimmingly and it turned out to be a bargain.

We've had other high end ranges with which we have been pleased but this one (a) fit the gestalt of our new home, (b) is a low-tech high-tactile instrument that keeps a chef in touch with his activity, and (c) is approximately half the price of LaCornue which seems to be more of a fashion statement. I think I might have posted earlier in this very thread a number of photos of professional chefs with the LaCanche ranges they purchased for their own homes. Let me know if you have any questions or if I can be helpful in any way.

Thanks very much, I will certainly take you up on this as the time to decide gets closer!

[dave1215]

First you end up with the JP Weigle spec'd and built for me and now you'll end up with the LaCanche spec'd and built for me. Hahaha!

[crumpton]

I've not read this entire thread so dont know whats been mentioned about dishwashers but wanted to add... I built Michelle and I a small house last fall and did what I would consider a nice kitchen(appliances) for a BIG tiny house.

Bosch dishwashers came so highly recommended by so many people... most overrated POS I've ever owned. dont do it. we hate it so bad we're actually going to yank it out after only 3 months use(gave it a good chance)

It's not broken or anything but it just doesn't clean for shit and we are good rinsers. it is very difficult to load more than a days worth of dishes(just 2 people) cause nothing seems to fit right.

very disappointing.

I miss my 17yo kenmore we're leaving behind in the old house.

on a positive note the Bertazzoni range is very nice though I went 24" and I have to remove a rack to stuff a 5qt Le Creuset and my beloved AlClad lasagna pan doesn't fit at all(handles in the way)

[Too Tall]

Sorry about the Bosch. Ours was a solid for many years, maybe they changed?. With our remodel.we.choose Kitchen Aide which is fantastic.

[Tom]

Which Bosch? We installed one about four months ago and it is the only dishwasher I've ever seen that you don't have to wash the dishes yourself before putting them in. The one thing is that if you put light things like plastic storage containers on the bottom rack you need to lean something heavy over them to pin them down because they'll get flipped over and tossed around if you don't.

[crumpton]

mine is the 800 for custom panels.

[davids]

The guy who used to fix our crappy old dw told us to get the cheapest Bosch we could.

When we moved, we left our first Bosch in our old condo, running perfectly and quietly after five-six years. Our current one is a Bosch Ascenta 2434 ($540) and it's working great after 18 months - whisper-quiet and the dishes, pots and pans come out squeaky-clean without pre-treatment.

[roseyscot]

mine is the 800 for custom panels.

I have the 800 series with custom panel and it cleans fantastically. The third row is great. Can't help you with the loading part, but I do find plates and bowls with 90 degree curved up sides are harder to fit. We run ours for a family of four about 2 or 3 times a week. I use the solid detergent pods, placed in the little tray on the front of the second/middle shelf.

[Tom]

I still get a laugh out of the utensil rack map - letters A though H or something, a key to say A=spoon, B=knife etc. Every time I stack the dishwasher I hear some engineer somewhere shouting "No! No! No! Knives go in B! Spoons go in A!"

Maybe the water flow isn't right or something? Maybe the drain hose isn't set right. Or you got a lemon. That'd suck.

[winmonster]

Sticking with the long-term review thing: Miele dishwasher gets a thumbs up, Miele counter-depth fridge (rebadged Thermador) gets a double thumbs up, Miele 48" range gets a boo and a hiss, Miele support and install gets a bag full of poo set on fire and left on every executives' doorstep. Perlick mini fridge gets a eh, works pretty good. Perlick support gets a thumbs up.