Finally Bought Some Land

[j44ke]

Okay, so here are a couple screen shots of the PDF. This is the first draft of a projected four drafts. Second is to arrive June 21. The shape of the house was derived from a discussion about building a house without front or back doors, just entries and viewpoints. My wife is not totally convinced that an oval design can escape the architectural history of hippy-dippy 70's/80's designs with sunken living rooms and shag carpets, but I am intrigued. Granted it results in an effective loss of square footage, something that the architects have calculated to be about 16 square feet (I think that's right - my notes are back on my desk in the city) of unusable space due to curves/corners. Total square footage is about 1900 with the house dimensions about 60x40 feet. The roof has a solarium and outside deck. Heating is radiant floor, and foundation is slab on grade. Mechanicals are all in a sound-proofed storage area off the kitchen, which also helps insulate that exposure from the prevailing winter winds. The drive way leads to a garage with spots for car, tractor and bike room that has been built and then backfilled on 3 sides so the roof is level with the ground and functions as an outdoor patio.

I have a feeling that a significant amount of this design will change for round 2, but I thought I would share this just so anyone following could see the process.

Site overview.

Attachment 102066

Floor plan.

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[NYCfixie]

Screen Shot 2017-05-27 at 11.35.53 AM.jpg

I would look at the door into the guest room and how much that closet sticks out towards the front ? of the house. That passageway seems smaller and only gets smaller as you enter the room Also, could it make it feel cozy or claustrophobic once you are in the room? And I am assuming the guest room is lower in the picture.

Where are the closets in the master? Do you only have a shower in the master (could not tell).

Where is laundry (room/area)? Off kitchen? Somewhere else? Near bedrooms is always best.

I agree with one of your earlier comments that kitchen is too far from dining area. Could be disruptive when entertaining large or small (VSalon groups).

And you may want to get kitchen mechanical and related noise farther away from master bedroom. Do you really want to hear the ice maker all night? Do you want to hear the dishwasher (even the quiet one make noise and beep) as the last cycle is going after a dinner party (for Vsalon).


Most importantly, where is bike parking for all VSaloners?

[j44ke]

I would look at the door into the guest room and how much that closet sticks out towards the front ? of the house. That passageway seems smaller and only gets smaller as you enter the room Also, could it make it feel cozy or claustrophobic once you are in the room? And I am assuming the guest room is lower in the picture.

The door to the guest room is at the main hall and th north side of the passage is a glass sliding door to the small deck running between the two bedrooms. There is also a glass sliding door opposite as the south wall of the master bedroom. This is aligned to catch morning light through the year. The stairwell, drawn here as an enclose half-round, may be square in the next iteration and probably glass also towards the small deck. So a lot of glass and light in that area. Opening into the guest room looks small, but it is (supposed to be) as wide as a standard door opening. Both of the windows in the bedrooms will be larger - floor to ceiling in height and half again as wide as they are now.

The glass wall/sliding door of the master bedroom will have a curtain track built-in to the ceiling hung with a cool fabric that is relatively thin and translucent but insulating.

Where are the closets in the master? Do you only have a shower in the master (could not tell).

Closets are the reverse side of bed's headboard with drawers and cupboards on the wall along the resulting passage. Shower is the triangle that shares the north end of the master bedroom with the toilet etc. Yes only shower. No tubs allowed in our house.

Where is laundry (room/area)? Off kitchen? Somewhere else? Near bedrooms is always best.

Laundry is the two squares on the right just before you turn right to enter the guest room.

I agree with one of your earlier comments that kitchen is too far from dining area. Could be disruptive when entertaining large or small (VSalon groups).

Next design will likely put the dining area between the kitchen and living room and move the screened-in outside eating area (which is currently between the kitchen and living room) to the dining area. Or the architects will create a solution that "interrupts" the oval shape of the house and redesign the whole kitchen-living room-dining room area.

And you may want to get kitchen mechanical and related noise farther away from master bedroom. Do you really want to hear the ice maker all night? Do you want to hear the dishwasher (even the quiet one make noise and beep) as the last cycle is going after a dinner party (for Vsalon).

If we have an ice maker that can be heard from the master bedroom, we'll have purchased the wrong refrigerator. We don't really use an ice maker anyway. My wife doesn't like the way the ice tastes (I can't tell the difference.) Anyway, should be plenty of layers of wall etc. to keep things quiet.


Most importantly, where is bike parking for all VSaloners?

In the garage. It is essentially a 4 car garage. We have one car, then there is the tractor/snowblower, and then two spots for the bike room.

Also: as mentioned above, the three patio/walkways to the south and north pierce the oval of the house shape and have a glass wall on one side. The one on the east side has sliding glass doors on either side, one leading into the master bedroom, one leading into the passage that leads into the guest bedroom.

The west wall across the opening that leads to the dining/living room areas is all glass with sliding glass doors in front of the living room area. The oval of the house shape is continued there by screening so the sliding glass doors can be opened without letting in bugs. However, this is likely to be redesigned with the next draft.

Part of the goal is wheelchair accessibility.

[NYCfixie]

I think overall it is a fantastic design.

This is the area I thought might be a concern for passage especially now knowing you want everything to be wheelchair accessible. Maybe if I have the W/D in the correct location you can use stackables and make the closet a bit smaller to open up entry into the actual guest room.

Not even a hot tub? How are you going to soak the legs and body after a ride?


Attachment 102069

I would look at the door into the guest room and how much that closet sticks out towards the front ? of the house. That passageway seems smaller and only gets smaller as you enter the room Also, could it make it feel cozy or claustrophobic once you are in the room? And I am assuming the guest room is lower in the picture.

The door to the guest room is at the main hall and th north side of the passage is a glass sliding door to the small deck running between the two bedrooms. There is also a glass sliding door opposite as the south wall of the master bedroom. This is aligned to catch morning light through the year. The stairwell, drawn here as an enclose half-round, may be square in the next iteration and probably glass also towards the small deck. So a lot of glass and light in that area. Opening into the guest room looks small, but it is (supposed to be) as wide as a standard door opening. Both of the windows in the bedrooms will be larger - floor to ceiling in height and half again as wide as they are now.

The glass wall/sliding door of the master bedroom will have a curtain track built-in to the ceiling hung with a cool fabric that is relatively thin and translucent but insulating.

Where are the closets in the master? Do you only have a shower in the master (could not tell).

Closets are the reverse side of bed's headboard with drawers and cupboards on the wall along the resulting passage. Shower is the triangle that shares the north end of the master bedroom with the toilet etc. Yes only shower. No tubs allowed in our house.

Where is laundry (room/area)? Off kitchen? Somewhere else? Near bedrooms is always best.

Laundry is the two squares on the right just before you turn right to enter the guest room.

I agree with one of your earlier comments that kitchen is too far from dining area. Could be disruptive when entertaining large or small (VSalon groups).

Next design will likely put the dining area between the kitchen and living room and move the screened-in outside eating area (which is currently between the kitchen and living room) to the dining area. Or the architects will create a solution that "interrupts" the oval shape of the house and redesign the whole kitchen-living room-dining room area.

And you may want to get kitchen mechanical and related noise farther away from master bedroom. Do you really want to hear the ice maker all night? Do you want to hear the dishwasher (even the quiet one make noise and beep) as the last cycle is going after a dinner party (for Vsalon).

If we have an ice maker that can be heard from the master bedroom, we'll have purchased the wrong refrigerator. We don't really use an ice maker anyway. My wife doesn't like the way the ice tastes (I can't tell the difference.) Anyway, should be plenty of layers of wall etc. to keep things quiet.


Most importantly, where is bike parking for all VSaloners?

In the garage. It is essentially a 4 car garage. We have one car, then there is the tractor/snowblower, and then two spots for the bike room.

Also: as mentioned above, the three patio/walkways to the south and north pierce the oval of the house shape and have a glass wall on one side. The one on the east side has sliding glass doors on either side, one leading into the master bedroom, one leading into the passage that leads into the guest bedroom.

The west wall across the opening that leads to the dining/living room areas is all glass with sliding glass doors in front of the living room area. The oval of the house shape is continued there by screening so the sliding glass doors can be opened without letting in bugs. However, this is likely to be redesigned with the next draft.

Part of the goal is wheelchair accessibility.

[vertical_doug]

I like the design. I think it will be fun. However, from a practical living point of view, you are probably short on closets/storage space. If you plan on having this a 4 season cottage, then you definitely are. It is my one regret with my log house. I wish I thought more about closets. (okay, the roof shape and snowfall also needed some more thinking.)

[NYCfixie]

Good catch. Where is the coat closet ? Where is the mud room exit/entry/garage-access?


And then there was this:

I like the design. I think it will be fun. However, from a practical living point of view, you are probably short on closets/storage space. If you plan on having this a 4 season cottage, then you definitely are. It is my one regret with my log house. I wish I thought more about closets. (okay, the roof shape and snowfall also needed some more thinking.)

[j44ke]

That George Carlin schtick is on heavy rotation in our house. It is my wife's favorite.

Attachment 102070

So in the above, the letters correspond to closets. "A" is a large walk-in pantry with access to various mechanical alcoves - furnace, water heater, etc. "B" operates essentially as a walk-in closet with hanging to the right and drawers and cupboards on the left. "C" is a large set of closets for a variety of things - linens perhaps but also music system and the like. The house has very little if any automation. Not our thing. "D" is a closet with drawers below and hanger above. E is a modular storage built-in that will allow hangers, shelves and drawers for our mud room. The rectangle along the glass wall opposite is a bench. This area may change as coming in the south entry and making a U-turn to enter the mud room seems kind of clumsy. Taking from a design we saw that had two front doors, we suggested a mud door immediately on the left after entering the south entry deck area. But hopefully we have enough storage.

I am still not sure what to call each of the entry areas. Porticos? Platforms? Decks? The blue lines designate glass walls, so you can see even though it looks like there are not many windows, there is actually a lot of glass. And that glass is set up to catch light at different times of day, hopefully to match the activity in the area the light shines into. Anyway, the actual entry doors for the north and south entries are quite recessed from the outer edge of the building, and that whole recessed area is covered by the building's roof.

The living room glass wall with its sliding doors will likely be straight across and the recessed outdoor eating area will be moved and/or redesigned so the dining room can be next to the kitchen.

The yellow line designates insect screening. These are quite trick, and we've seen them on two houses. They run on vertical reels and pull horizontally along a track system with a magnetic closure at each end of its length. This one will have at least four sections. So far, durability of these systems has been good according to the people we've spoken with.

The mud room area, the dining-living-kitchen area and the stairwell were the only real changes we saw right off the bat. But obviously this is an equilibrium system, so changes there will mean changes elsewhere.

The other build site on the property will have a huge fire pit, and a landscaped trail will run from the house to the patio over the garage and down a nice sloping ridge to the lower site. And there is an outdoor cooking area just outside the kitchen on the north end of the house.

[j44ke]

Re: the entry to the guest room. If you measure it against the beds, which are queen-sized beds, the opening is slightly wider than half a queen-sized bed. Might be hard to measure on these small images, but on the larger drawing (meaning at least on paper) that opening should be wide enough, and ironically the curve of the wall in that area should actually better accommodate turning radius than a flat/straight wall.

But good spotting. That is definitely a possible pinch point.

The other day, we found a small "community" of these on the property.



And these are our super huge quaking aspens. No idea the age, but they are oldsters for sure.

[ides1056]

The Honda snowblower is outstanding in every way. The electric start is a godsend the first time you fire it up after it sits for months. We have a DR walk-behind brush hog which has taken a beating over the years, requiring repairs to deck etc.

I'd chat with your builder about the design. Drywall will have to be wetted and bent over a frame. Will be a royal PIA to hang, measuring outlet cutouts and the like.

[guido]

The other day, we found a small "community" of these on the property.

OMG

You will need to send (all of) these to me for testing. Can't be too careful...

[htwoopup]

Totally agree with Vertical Doug about the closets even though you explained because your needs will grow even if you are not into accumulating. I have been shocked at how much stuff (when the idea was to de-stuff) our four season lake house has. It just grows and grows and needs to be stored in the off-season. For instance, we got two pairs of snowshoes. That became four pairs so that if guests came from the big city we were prepared. And so on. So, not closets per se but off-season storage areas. Also, it may be on here and I am not seeing it, and it may be tricky but having a wash basin type sink and perhaps having the w/d in the mud room is another thing I wish I had. Again, this is stuff that may be on the plans and I just can't read but I mention it because as I find in my case I didn't think about it and not having these things can be a limiting factor of using the land.

[j44ke]

Good points. I think we will at least put a sink in the garage (hard to see in the first image as it is built into the slope and its roof will be level with grade) and that will be where most of the sports equipment goes. The architects are cyclists, so a real bike room area is part of the plan for the garage. Also we'll have an outdoor shower though that's not much good in winter. I think the mud room will get a bit of a rework in the next iteration.

[vertical_doug]

Tankless water heater?

I don't know what kind of control system you plan for your water, and what kind of fully automatic systems are available in the US, but it definitely simplifies everything. As a kind, I remember the effort needed by my dad to close up the cabin in winter. My place, I essentially just push a button and it blows out the water so I don't have to worry about frozen pipes.

Outside shower sounds nice, but I doubt you will use it as often as you think. Eventually mosquitos will win. Besides, the more stuff you have exposed to the elements, means the more things you will have to putz with and fix when you are there. The weather is hard on things. You are going to the house to escape, you don't want to get there and then think about all the things you need to get done. Kind of defeats the purpose.

If you are going to hire a caretaker, cleaning lady, then none of this matters except paying the bills also gets old fast.

[j44ke]

Water heater we haven't discussed, but I am sure that's upcoming. We don't plan on closing the house in the winter. This is 4 season house, but obviously there will be times when we close shop to travel to sunnier climes.

[Mabouya]

I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread Josh started on kitchen remodeling, but it bears repeating:

If you're going to spend a lot of time in the kitchen (and most people do - I'm not a foodie, and I do) it's truly enjoyable to have a layout such that when you look up from whatever it is you're doing at / on the table or counter, you have a nice view of the outside. In my case, it always makes me happy to look out into the woods or over at the feeder, where all sorts of different birds are fluttering about, even though I can't name half of them.

Good luck with your project - it looks like an awesome plan.

[davids]

Jorn,

That looks fantastic. I think you're well on your way and (I was amused to see that) most of your concerns echo mine:

• A mud-room-kind-of-thing is essential. You want to be able to shed & store wet/dirty stuff at the primary entry.
• The dining room should be close to the kitchen, especially as it seems to be the only dining area (we, for example, have a kitchen table too...) Some people like a kitchen open to the dining room to allow socializing back and forth. My wife is in the other camp, strongly: She does not want to see dirty pots while we're entertaining. Even if all our guests have been gathered at the counter prior to dinner... Your opinions may differ. But it's worth thinking about!
• Storage. Even after a multiple-iteration shedding of decades of accumulation, we are using a lot of our basement for our shit (china, bikes and other exercise stuff, cleaning supplies, luggage...) If you don't mind having it down the slope, the garage can work. But it can be nice to have it 'inside'.

And my feedback on tankless hot water: It's great to not worry about exhausting the supply. But it takes a while for 'instant' hot water to reach our master bath. Like, a minute of watching water run down the drain. So, life is all about the tradeoffs, huh?

Congrats on the progress and thanks for sharing with us in the peanut gallery!

[Badonkadonk]

such a cool project!
make sure you have as much garage space as possible. i'd have thought three bays and a shed was enough, but if you buy a big enough truck, it can end up living outside...

truck at dawn.jpg

[lumpy]

Good points. I think we will at least put a sink in the garage (hard to see in the first image as it is built into the slope and its roof will be level with grade) and that will be where most of the sports equipment goes. The architects are cyclists, so a real bike room area is part of the plan for the garage. Also we'll have an outdoor shower though that's not much good in winter. I think the mud room will get a bit of a rework in the next iteration.

Make sure you've got a frostproof spigot out by the bike area so you can wash everything off, and good drainage where the bikes hang. Get a huge-ass double utility sink for the shop/garage area too.

[j44ke]

Another trip, this time with our friend from Prague, David. He's a former war photographer, so I let him take the photos. Much lusher than before. We are definitely going to need some trails. And the number of standing dead trees is remarkable. Pines especially seem able to keep upright until they completely disintegrate. Just have to watch what you lean on.

My wife and one of three or so really old pines. I think there are more than three, but I don't know the land well enough yet to say that we haven't just circled back on a few of them.



We now have two creeks on our property. This second one (dark strip just beyond me in the trees) probably runs underground most of the year, but after all this rain, it has surfaced along the eastern edge of the property.



These are the youngest pines on the property. They are effectively weeding themselves by crowding out the smaller pines, which then die and keel over. Eventually.

[j44ke]

Our next meeting with the architects is on June 20th, and after a brief email exchange (we always type up a list of responses, questions and ideas for them after each meeting) it sounds like we will get a fairly different design in the second round. I imagine that will mean eventually they will develop a "best of" design that incorporates hits from the first two and then the final design will be a refinement of that.