Enamel Paint

[Rkanz]

I grew up around a furniture refinishing shop, and remember using high quality enamel. I have been wanting to paint some of my frames, but haven't wanted to use catalyzed urethane auto paint. Auto paint can get expensive and is hard to find in pint cans. I decided to try using Rustoleum from the hardware store. I was able to find enamel reduced at an auto supply store and Majic brand enamel hardener at Tractor Supply. As a further test I bought a 4 ounce touch up spray gun at Habor Freight for $12. The gun worked well but the reservoir cap leaked, I used tape to stop drips. I first applied Rustoleum primer with about 30% reducer. Once dry I lightly sanded the primer. I mixed the paint with about 30% reducer and hardener per the label. I sprayed multiple coats until I had the film thickness I wanted. I sprayed outside in my driveway. There was very little overspray with the small gun. The final results are very good.

Russ Kanz

IMG_2488.jpgIMG_2490.jpg

[jclay]

That is very cool! Automotive paint is gawd awful expensive for walk-ins who only shoot a frame or two a year....or a year or two per frame. I may give that a whirl once my current small stash of auto paint is used up or dried in the can. Thanks for sharing!

[Dave Anderson]

Nice work! Rustoleum is underrated for an economical paint job. I have painted several bikes with it over the years. The biggest problem was dry time....in that it took forever to fully dry. The hardener trick is a great Idea! I'll give that a try next time.

Dave

[jclay]

As an aside, are there any other modestly priced but good/high quality enamel paints relevant to us, perhaps in a brand/supplier with lots of color offerings?

I'll definitely try the Rustoleum or other enamel going forward. Is my memory idealizing the old days or do I correctly remember fantastic looking enamel paint jobs 40 years ago on custom MC tanks, hot rods, and such as that? Or was it lacquer?

Clear coats: Are they possible and beneficial to an enamel paint job?

[Dave Anderson]

Besides Commercial automotive paints, I haven't used anything other than Rustoleum for something like this. Krylon and other lacquer based spray or "hobby" paints that I've tried haven't held up. I would guess that agricultural enamels found at Tractor Supply and other similar stores would perform about the same as Rustoleum...color choice is prob even more limited though. Rustoleum has a "Crystal Clear Enamel" in a spray can that I've used, but I've only been able to produce a decent finish with it by letting it dry for about 30 days and then color sanding and buffing it.....which is a lot of work, etc.

[jclay]

Besides Commercial automotive paints, I haven't used anything other than Rustoleum for something like this. Krylon and other lacquer based spray or "hobby" paints that I've tried haven't held up. I would guess that agricultural enamels found at Tractor Supply and other similar stores would perform about the same as Rustoleum...color choice is prob even more limited though. Rustoleum has a "Crystal Clear Enamel" in a spray can that I've used, but I've only been able to produce a decent finish with it by letting it dry for about 30 days and then color sanding and buffing it.....which is a lot of work, etc.

Thanks Dave. I just realized that Testors makes oil based (I think) enamel paint. The bottles are only 1/4 oz (about a$1.75) but the color selection is large. It makes me wonder how much paint actually goes on the tubes as opposed to the elsewhere. I use a small HVLP touch up gun (Minijet knockoff which works very well) and I'm guessing about an ounce of paint but a lot of it doesn't land on the frame. If 2 or 3 bottles of Testors would do it then while far more expensive than Rustoleum, still very inexpensive. Makes me wonder if a small air brush might put a higher percentage of paint on the tubes. All that said, Rustoleum has enough colors to work for me. More would be nice, but I could live with their selection. Just wondering what else might be out there.

[Dave Anderson]

Cool. I have always used a HVLP touch up gun as well. The smallest size of paint that I have been able to purchase and sometimes get away with (depending on how well it covers) is 4 oz. With Auto Air Colors, for example, a 4 oz bottle of base coat is generally adequate for a frame and steel fork. I have usually needed at least two of the 4 oz bottles of the pre-reduced House of Kolor base coat, though, for most colors (they now offer 1/2 pint un-reduced containers, which are adequate for most bikes). Some base coats go on kind of matt though, with good coverage, (they don't flow out, in other words, as the clear coat is what produces the final finish and gloss) and so it might take a bit more material of reduced enamel for good coverage (on things like lug edges) and film build. I've never paid attention when I've used Rustoleum as I just took it out of a quart can, etc. Perhaps Russ can chime in an let us know how much paint he used on the bike above.

Dave

[jclay]

I know zip about paint technology and whatever I learned about colors in third grade has been dormant for a very long time. When I started building frames, paint was black magic to me; I'd go to one of the local automotive paint houses, point at a color in their book and get all of the ancillary stuff I needed. I haven't bought any paint in, I don't know, at least seven years, and I'm still using what I have left but it's nearly gone. Dupont Nason and some PPG stuff...it was painfully expensive. Fast forwarding to this thread, then poking around and finding this sort if info ( Paint Color Mixing Chart: How to Use It for Mixing Paint Colors ), and subsequently looking at the Rustoleum brush on oil based enamel paint colors ( https://www.rustoleum.com/product-ca...tective-enamel ), and suddenly I realize that a can or red, blue and yellow (at $30 total) offers more color options than I could shake a stick at, and enough paint for a small boatload of frames. To that add Rustoleum primer, a little reducer, an activator and some clear and I get the feeling that I'd be in fat-city for a long time. I am eager to mess around in that sandbox.

[Rkanz]

I used just over 1/2 pint of color to get coverage over the primer. I mixed the paint thin. The cheap Central Pneumatic gun has a 0.8 tip, so I went thin on the paint. The paint has no orange peel. My local Ace Hardware has a guy that is good mixing paint, I need to ask if he can tint the Rustoleum. I don't see why he couldn't. I also want to try using the Rustoleum clear over the color.

Russ Kanz

[jclay]

I used just over 1/2 pint of color to get coverage over the primer. I mixed the paint thin. The cheap Central Pneumatic gun has a 0.8 tip, so I went thin on the paint. The paint has no orange peel. My local Ace Hardware has a guy that is good mixing paint, I need to ask if he can tint the Rustoleum. I don't see why he couldn't. I also want to try using the Rustoleum clear over the color.

Russ Kanz

Russ,

Thanks for that info. Things I've gathered, looking around in past day or so:

• The primer can be extremely thin and still provide adhesion. I'd always assumed that meaningful film thickness was desirable even where filling imperfections wasn't necessary.
• Thinned/small paint mist is how to avoid orange peel; I didn't know that.
• Some folks are using urethane clears with good luck as long as the color is fully flashed and well into curing.
• Acetone flashes more quickly than mineral spirits and is less likely to cause problems with the clear. That was good to see as MS was listed as an acceptable reducer and I'd have gone that way for the sake of simplicity.

Was that a half pint of color including the 30% reduceer. Sounds like it. I nearly bought a quart of Rustoleum gloss red, blue and yellow while at Lowes this morning but I'm a month away from my next paint job and thought that half pints might be better. But now, maybe quarts. It will be interesting to see what you use for clear and how it works out!

[jclay]

Tractor Supply sells this stuff as well as Rustoleum Farm & Implement paint: http://www.majicpaints.com/wp-conten...-Card-2014.pdf

[Rkanz]

Adding reducer to the Rustoleum clean metal primer makes it sand easy and dry quickly. Acetone can be used to thin enamel, but I think enamel reducer works better. The hardener speeds the dry time and increases the gloss. I used just over a 1/2 pint of paint from the can, not including reducer. I didn't measure very accurately. From what I can find Valspar and Majic are the only sources of hardener. I found the Majic at my local Tractor Supply.

Russ Kanz

[Dave Anderson]

Rustoleum also has a self etching primer in a spray can that I've used when doing frame repairs for people who don't want more than a rattle can touch up. It works pretty well, but goes on thick, as rattle cans usually do. It's wet sandable, though, and so often workable.

[Rkanz]

I am continuing to experiment with Rustoleum. I painted this fork with the mix described above. It was 60 degrees when I sparayed which made it easier to apply too much paint. I applied some red paint, then put a band of 3M vinyl tape around the fork, then applied the black. Seemed to work well. Here is a picture of my gun and supplies and the fork.IMG_2531.jpgIMG_2559.jpg

Russ Kanz

[jclay]

Very nice. A few hours more work on this ( Flickr ) and I'll be ready to get some Rustoleum and give it a try. I'm really looking forward to that. Thanks for all of the helpful information!

[jclay]

Adding reducer to the Rustoleum clean metal primer makes it sand easy and dry quickly. Acetone can be used to thin enamel, but I think enamel reducer works better. The hardener speeds the dry time and increases the gloss. I used just over a 1/2 pint of paint from the can, not including reducer. I didn't measure very accurately. From what I can find Valspar and Majic are the only sources of hardener. I found the Majic at my local Tractor Supply.

Russ Kanz

Russ,

Questions if you don't mind:

Did you catalyse the Rustoleum primer? It sounds like you didn't, just added 30% reducer, but I wanted to confirm.
How long did you let the primer cure?
What clear did you use? I have some left over that I used over PPG and Nason paint. I wonder if it would be compatible. Any ideas?

I'm nearly ready for paint.

[Rkanz]

I did not add catalyst to the primer. With the reducer the primer dries overnight and sands easily. I have not found a source of clear aldyd enamel. The paint is very glossy without clear. I think of this as a single stage paint. Not sure of the compatibility with urethane. One nice aspect of the Rustoleum is it can easily be wet sanded and polished. I use 1500 grit wet, followed by polishing compound. I did a test on a fork, sprayed red, used vinyl tape, then black. I put on a lot of paint, to the point of having a slight run. Then sanded and polished the fork. I have hundreds of miles on the red bike in the pictures above, with only one chip. The paint still looks very good. A little wax puts a shine on it.IMG_2620.jpg

Russ Kanz

[jclay]

I did not add catalyst to the primer. With the reducer the primer dries overnight and sands easily. I have not found a source of clear aldyd enamel. The paint is very glossy without clear. I think of this as a single stage paint. Not sure of the compatibility with urethane. One nice aspect of the Rustoleum is it can easily be wet sanded and polished. I use 1500 grit wet, followed by polishing compound. I did a test on a fork, sprayed red, used vinyl tape, then black. I put on a lot of paint, to the point of having a slight run. Then sanded and polished the fork. I have hundreds of miles on the red bike in the pictures above, with only one chip. The paint still looks very good. A little wax puts a shine on it.

Russ Kanz

Thanks Russ. I'll shoot a test that way on a junk tube as soon as the weather clears up.

Re clear coating: Majic makes a "Clear Coat High Gloss Lacquer", https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...l?cm_vc=-10005 . That's interesting but I'm hoping that the leftover polyurethane clears I have can be used; I've seen both yes and no answers to that question on some of the hot-rod usegroup sites. If not, so be it.

A simpler and far less expensive paint system than the automotive stuff I've used over the years (Nason and PPG) is very attractive.

[Rkanz]

I bought some Majic Clear Lacquer at Tractor Supply yesterday and sprayed a coat on my test fork. The label on the can says this is an acrylic modified alkyd - it is not a true lacquer. The instructions say "FOR SPAY PPLICATION, DO NO THIN". I spayed some unthinned. The temp was in the low 50's, and the paint was almost too thick for the gun with the small tip. But I achieved a very nice finish after several coats. I tried adding reducer, which helped the finish spray better, but I am not sure it was is a comparable thinner. I had some specks in the clear after adding the reducer. I may try thinning with paint thinner. The best solution may be a gun with a bigger tip. The results are very good. After drying overnight in my cold garage I did some testing and the clear provides a higher level of chip protection than the Rustoleum.

Russ Kanz

IMG_2663.jpg

[jclay]

I bought some Majic Clear Lacquer at Tractor Supply yesterday and sprayed a coat on my test fork. The label on the can says this is an acrylic modified alkyd - it is not a true lacquer. The instructions say "FOR SPAY PPLICATION, DO NO THIN". I spayed some unthinned. The temp was in the low 50's, and the paint was almost too thick for the gun with the small tip. But I achieved a very nice finish after several coats. I tried adding reducer, which helped the finish spray better, but I am not sure it was is a comparable thinner. I had some specks in the clear after adding the reducer. I may try thinning with paint thinner. The best solution may be a gun with a bigger tip. The results are very good. After drying overnight in my cold garage I did some testing and the clear provides a higher level of chip protection than the Rustoleum.

Russ Kanz

Fantastic news! I picked up the Majic catalyst the other day and am on the way to get the rustoleum primer and color now.