Finally Bought Some Land

[j44ke]

We are going to try to keep all the hardwood timber that has to come down. It won't be a lot, but some of it like the cherry is pretty desirable. We'll have no shortage of maple also.

I can't believe I didn't take a photo of our mountains of wood chips. So many wood chips. My advice: If you look at property with wood chips all over the friggin' place, first bring a shovel and dig test pits to estimate the depth, and second, if the depth is more than a few inches, either require the seller to remove them or get a price reduction equal to removal. Our excavator may be able to work out a trade for gravel, but in the end, I think we are going to pay for hauling. I should have listened to the Frankenstein voice in my head that kept saying "wood chips bad."

That's our excavator (green shirt) Ken Krapf overseeing test pit digging done by his son, Ken Jr., to see what's underneath now that 80% of the wood chips are up. Note the pile of rocks. Basically everything 2" under the surface is rock, but fortunately the stone has a vertically structure and is quite friable. Most of the stone in the valley is calcareous (a lot of limestone and marble.) That stone is what all our walls are made from and what kept coming up in the bucket whenever Ken Jr. pulled the lever. But all that stone keeps the valley alkaline - when healthy, a ph of 7.28 - even though the rainwater that seeps down from the Taconics to our east that is acidic (down to a ph of 4.0!) So the rock is a bit of a PITA, but it is also what keeps everything in the valley happy and healthy.

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Moss loves calcareous rock, which is why the walls on our property are so fuzzy with all sorts of moss species. So it was kind of cool when we visited the Rheinstrom Hill Audubon Preserve on the outskirts of Hillsdale and saw how the use of calcareous rock for the paths through the Preserve had resulted in a nice mossy surface. Good idea since we'll probably have a pile of stone next to the pile of wood chips when we're done.



And the maples have already started to change over. This October, I plan to be up on the property quite a bit, removing Eurasian Bitterroot vine from several sections of the property. So with the leaves changing, that won't be too much of a hardship.

[ides1056]

Local cherry is a mixed bag, not up to the quality of Allegheny, but good enough regardless. Soft Maple is useful for firewood. Ash will burn when green almost. Red Oak takes a long time to season for firewood. We have a Tuli-Kivi that will burn softwood as well as hardwood. Hemlock, pine, spruce. Also have a Jotul insert in a fireplace that works pretty well. It's a bit hard to clean.

We had a forester draft Stewardship plans for our properties. This was very useful. MA has various programs that lower taxes on back land, and the Stewardship plan was part of this process. I am averse to logging, unless I do it.

What is the deal with all the wood chips?

Bittersweet is a pia, but is also a valuable food for waxwings. Two winters ago we had hundred of Bohemian Waxwings arrive when forced south by weather. Invasives are a mixed bag.

[j44ke]

When the previous owners did the subdivision, they cleared most of the trees off the development envelope area on each site and plowed a road bed (after also clearing trees there.) They put in a finished gravel road up to the first house site, which is evidently required when the road is shared, but then they spread the chips from the cleared trees on the rest of the road bed and on each house site. Now we think they also probably spread some chips from other sites they were clearing, because in some spots the chips are 2 feet deep.

So now all the stuff we are getting ready to do requires moving or removing the layer of chips. As a result, we have these huge piles of chips, way too many in my estimation to just spread them on the second site and let them rot on their own. We'd probably at least double the depth on the second site, which would make it about 4' deep! So my gut and brain tell me it is going to be difficult to avoid having to truck the stuff out of there. Our excavator said he met a guy who is working down the road on another site who needs chips and might be willing to trade for gravel. That would be great, but I think we'll still have more chips than we can deal with.

[Mabouya]

Jorn hasn't yet shown us this view of his property, but I figure it's about time to share it with the forum:

[j44ke]

Yeah that’s about right. Except mine are saturated with muddy water. I thought of a product I might be able to sell made out of it. I call it “Bog in a Can”. Each ton comes with a free red-spotted newt.

[ides1056]

you could follow Vito Acconci's lead, and give it an French or Italian name

not adept at attaching images, unfortunately

google merde de l'artiste

[j44ke]

Things seem to be going along pretty smoothly now actually. Our excavator is doing a bang up job on the road. It will be only half finished as the last section is a temporary extension to get machines and equipment up to the build site. Later that will be rolled up and the final drive will go a different route to keep headlights of arriving vehicles from shining in through the front windows. Plus no one wants a driveway in their front yard. That's where the barbecue goes.

I've quizzed our excavator periodically about this and that based on conversations here and off-forum about how a road should be built, and if anything he has been more of a stickler for quality than everyone else. Several layers of different materials including a layer of fabric somewhere inside with the final top layer to be "item 4" laid down once all the machines with metal treads are gone.

Meanwhile we are moving towards the contractor bidding stage, so that means figuring out some details like kitchen appliances, plumbing, lights, outlets and mechanical systems so that specs can be written out and prices calculated. We've been looking at Gaggenau (called Gag-Me-Now due to the price) and Wolf, but the budget really will make most of the decision. Some of it is design - probably not going to put an AGA cooker in a minimalist interior - but the budget is king. I have a feeling we'll end up with a SubZero fridge, a Wolf cooktop and the stove will be a toss up. That Gaggenau stove is amazing, but for vegetarians who occasionally eat fish, a can of Sterno and some tinfoil might be all that's needed really.

The road


Here are some land photos, just because.

[72gmc]

I always enjoy the updates.

You didn’t ask, but my wife has a thing for Neff Slide & Hide ovens thanks to the Great British Baking Show. My brief research tells me you can only get the oven as part of a complete kitchen purchase.

[ides1056]

That is a very proper driveway. Very.

[j44ke]

I always enjoy the updates.

You didn’t ask, but my wife has a thing for Neff Slide & Hide ovens thanks to the Great British Baking Show. My brief research tells me you can only get the oven as part of a complete kitchen purchase.

That's a cool oven. One of our friends in Europe sent us that as a suggestion for our kitchen here, but as you said, no go. Neff is part of the same company as Bosch, Thermador and Gaggenau, and I guess they probably don't see a market big enough to merit running it through safety certification and dealing with liability. Americans are known worldwide by manufacturers for the creative ways they manage maim or kill themselves with products. Some manufacturers just don't want the liability headache if the payoff in sales isn't enough.

The US has always had far less interesting appliances than in Europe. I remember going to England in the late 70's and being intrigued by all the "cookers" where the stop top was separate from the oven and the oven was stuck in the wall somewhere.

That is a very proper driveway. Very.

Thanks! Good to hear. Today work is slowed because of all the rain so I don't think he'll finish until later in the week now. We are waiting for the electrical design to come from the utility (where we put the transformer pad etc.) and then he'll put in the trench and a bundle of conduit for the electrician, cable, fiber, phone and a couple extra. No reason to skimp on the conduits, he says. If you don't use them, just leave them plugged. Eventually something will go in there.

[j44ke]

Here's one of the wood chip piles. I think there are 4 or 5 of similar size in total. This one doesn't look too big, but it is probably 8-10 feet high. This one is on the house site. To do a proper topo survey and locate the house, etc. we needed to know where solid ground was. Wood chips are not solid ground, so they had to be piled up for removal later. The rocks in front of the pile is from one of the test pits for the foundation. You dig 4 feet down or until you hit solid rock. We hit a lot of rock, but none of it was solid, so we went 4 feet down in all the pits (I think 6 pits total.) Then the pits got backfilled or thereabouts so no one fell in later. Eventually the well will get dug in the right background and the septic will be off to the left a bit downhill from the site (naturally.)



Here is the view from the area where the septic will be. I am actually standing at the eastern edge of the septic field, so most of it will be to the right of where this was taken. All these trees between me and the site (that's the pile from the above photo in the background) will have to go, and the septic field is designed with 3' of fill, so the terrain overall will be a bit different than it is now. When I go to the local hardware or sit in the local cafe, I hear plenty of conversations about the state of people's septic fields. Can't really forget about your septic or it will come and remind you of its needs.

[j44ke]

Gripping stuff I know but here is the road with item 4 topper. Now I can drive all the way to the site in my Volvo. The last section is rolled but didn't get the item 4 as it is just a construction road and will be disassembled after the house is completed. Next steps are getting NYSEG (the electrical utility) to send us the design for our connection so we can pay them and dig our trench and getting our well placement figured out so we can call the well driller to start that process.

BTW, several people have recommended contractors who work in the area of Hillsdale, NY (Columbia County, NY.) I wrote them all down a while ago, but I cannot put my fingers on where I put the list. Most of the recommendations were by PM, and I had to clean out my inbox and that's when I wrote them down. So if you had (or have) a recommendation, I apologize for losing it from the last time and please feel free to resend by PM. Right now I have several names, all of whom look pretty good if their website photos of previous projects are any indication, but the more the merrier, you know?

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[bking]

I'm sure you've asked your excavator for a GC reference. You say he's good, it's likely he knows some good GC's. Good luck, as getting this part right is so critical to your personal and marital happiness for the next 24 months at least;)

[j44ke]

I'm sure you've asked your excavator for a GC reference. You say he's good, it's likely he knows some good GC's. Good luck, as getting this part right is so critical to your personal and marital happiness for the next 24 months at least;)

That's a good idea. I actually hadn't thought of that. He had definite opinions about the developer/contractor tandem we bought this land from but was very diplomatic, so I think he'd probably have some recommendations that would be worthwhile. Thanks!

[Trevor]

Just started thumbing through your thread... Looks amazing so far.

My partner and I just moved out of the city of Buffalo where we lived for the past 9 years. We now like 30 miles south east of the city on a few nicely maintained acres of land in a 180 year old house with a pond and creek. Little bit of an adjustment.

What are you doing for utilities? We have electric, but only heat option really is propane. I have someone coming out to quote Geothermal as well. The house has a pellet fireplace which puts out good heat. I may look into a pellet furnace.

Internet is tough. The last homeowners said they used Verizon Fusion, which is no longer available and data capped. We have never had cable, but stream quite a bit. Turns out we usually use 2 gigs a day! (Guess unwinding at the end of the night for 1-2 hours does it). Right now we added two hot spots from Verizon. Unlimited and guaranteed 22 gigs of data each. After that it slows down. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I wish Spectrum would be out there.

Do they have internet service there? What options do you have?

[j44ke]

We plan to use a geothermal-based system to drive radiant floor heating. Fingers crossed. I guess we will have someone do an evaluation and let us know whether it will work on our land or not. I've been assured by several people who should know that we should have no problem. Should.

Our house is looking like it will be super efficient though with a fair amount of passive solar heat plus a nice Morso wood stove and plenty of insulation, so possibly not the same demands as heating an 180 year old house.

I think for old houses, it is nice to have both a general heating system and then localized heating. So a furnace and then additional heating in comfort areas like bathrooms, bedrooms due to house orientation or drafts or whatever. Usually those are electric heaters - different from the old fire-trap versions of the 1950's. Efficient, safe, on its own circuit and breaker.

The IP in Hillsdale is Fairpoint Communications. The service is DSL and max speed up/down is 30mbps. That's okay for most things, but the Internet disappears periodically when a squirrel takes a bite, a car hits a pole or a tree goes down. Doesn't seem like there is a cap or throttle point, but we haven't signed up yet as the house is still a year and a half away. But really, as long as we can get email, we'll look out the window for entertainment. We're trying (perhaps in vain) to unplug a bit.

[j44ke]

So in between moments of action, I've been testing a removal method for an invasive vine called Asian Bittersweet. The vine's diagnostic characteristic is that it is the only vine in our area that spirals up the tree. Wild grape usually climbs up the bar and bumps out "shoulders" at particular limbs, then as it thickens, falls away from the trunk leaving it attached to the tree fairly high up. Poison ivy is can take almost a straight line up the side of the tree, forming a kind of fuzzy stem, until it spreads out in branches around 10' up, or it can be less organized but never spirals.

The bittersweet spirals up while sending out an infinite number of feeler branches that latch onto limbs and trunks of other trees, bushes, telephone poles, street signs, whatever is nearby and gets the plant to the next opportunity to go up. As it thickens, the stem seems to take on an enormous amount of water, making it very heavy, and it can tighten its spirals until it starts to make an imprint on the tree's trunk and even shut down the tree's own circulatory system. If that doesn't kill the tree, the vine leafs out at the top, and the leaves can almost completely shade the tree's own leaves, preventing efficient photosynthesis and starving the tree. Eventually, the tree weakens, dies and falls down, either due to the weight of the vine or the wind + the weight of the vine or all of the above, and the vine takes over the newly sunny hole in the forest and heads for the other nearby trees. Eventually, what was a nice uncluttered understory shaded by mature trees becomes a bramble of bittersweet vine, logs and other opportunistic plants like poison ivy, barberry bush, greenbriar and blackberries. Great for mice! And therefore great for ticks.

At the recommendation of Tom Wessels (author of Forest Forensics and mentioned earlier in this thread,) I've been going through and cutting sections out of Bittersweet vines from about 1/2 or 3/4" to several inches in diameter, and then painting the root stump with a gelled prep of RoundUp. Since (again according to Mr. Wessels) the vine is moving starches down from the leaves into the roots for storage over winter, the stump pulls the RoundUp down into the roots and kills the plant beneath the group. This is important, because when the vine is cut, it sends out a signal to the roots to start growing upwards as new shoots, so you have to kill everything or dig the entire plant up.

Big vine with a section cut out. This vine was on a dead tree, and when I cut the section out, the gap between the two ends expanded larger than the piece removed. So as you can imagine, I am doing this with a lot of caution, carefully planning where to stand, how to cut and how to shield myself or move if the tree becomes unstable.



Here's the piece I cut out.



We lose trees almost every day it seems. At least every week. There is a lot of standing deadwood, so some trees fall because they were just waiting to be pushed. This big pine had been hit by lightning at some point, and a portion of the trunk had a scar on it that then rotted. About a week ago, we had a storm go through that included (according to our neighbor with a home weather station) some downburst-like winds that may have reached 80mph. That would fit the evidence here I suspect.







I am being super conservative with the RoundUp. I am not spraying it. The gel form has a roll-on applicator that allows a lot of control. I'm only using it on the trunks of the vines, and I am keeping it away from other plants. Right now I am doing just three different areas to see how it works. If other plants keel over in those areas, I'll have to resort to digging and perhaps some sort of machinery.

Too many cute critters to screw up.



A beautiful but dangerous critters, like this American oil beetle (Meloe impressus.)

[Mabouya]

Too many cute critters to screw up.

+1 on that.

Looking good!

[ides1056]

I have never seen a bittersweet vine that thick. You have your work cut out for you.

For interior heaters look up Rinnai. Direct vented gas. We have several, in several rental houses, which means they are particularly durable and more or less idiot-proof.

The biggest issue in old houses is air migration: the less the wind blows through, the better. Closed cell foam does the job well in the typical old house with irregular bays that make other types of insulation, eg bat or cellulose problematic. Expensive, but makes for a tight house.

I am a big fan of wood heat.

Forests are dynamic. Pine trees can drop a branch, heal over, and rot from inside. Happens all the time. Called red rot.

[vertical_doug]

This is a very rare Douglas's Western Connecticut Orange bash bish Newt. It has recently been discovered and is an endangered species with very local habitat in only a few forests. I am very sorry to inform you, that you can no longer build on the property.

Isn't this fun...you should never post a picture on the internet brings all sorts of unwanted attention.