Swimming: clues needed

[Too Tall]

To put it another way swimming with a frontal snorkel is a lot like riding a track bike on the velodrome. No brakes nor shifting just your legs. I've only ridden on a velodrome once but it was beautiful.

Just got back from swimming 64 and was thinking about you most of the time Josh. You have to do it and report back. If I lived in DC I would bribe you with some hot stuff (cafe) but this is an order.

Well, that I can not deny ;) OK. We are traveling for the next week than I'll report back.

[twowheels]

Ditch the fins. Get some pull buoys (foam you hold between your knees). They will keep you hips and legs high and allow you to propel yourself with your upper body like a proper swimmer, to keep your head low and in line with your spine, and to concentrate on your glide and efficiency.

Cyclists can have trouble taking up swimming because their upper bodies tend to be weak, their legs are dense and heavy which makes them sink, they fight the water and exhaust themselves, and they kick too much.

[slowSSer]

For me, the ability to breathe from either side was critical in open-water swimming to avoid issues with waves, sunlight, or needing to get a quick gulp of air because I got clubbed by another swimmer when I came up for air on whichever side...

My standard stroke was rather unorthodox, though: R(b)-L-R(b)-L-R-L(b)-R-L(b)-R-L-R(b)... (two on each side before switching)

that's called 2-3-2 and its a distance technique that works quite well!

[slowSSer]

Ditch the fins. Get some pull buoys (foam you hold between your knees). They will keep you hips and legs high and allow you to propel yourself with your upper body like a proper swimmer, to keep your head low and in line with your spine, and to concentrate on your glide and efficiency.

Cyclists can have trouble taking up swimming because their upper bodies tend to be weak, their legs are dense and heavy which makes them sink, they fight the water and exhaust themselves, and they kick too much.

and as a cyclist AND swimmer, go for the THINNEST buoy that you can. back in college swimming I used a soft foam kick board as it could deal with the cyclist thighs. another benefit- it acted like a keel on a boat while the flat spots on the front on the buoy just felt like they acted like an air brake. buoys are usually more efficient closer to the (ahem) top of your inseam, to be frank.

one other thing- balance. if you're working one muscle group, you need to lift/stretch the others. example- swimming tends to be abdominal specific. you need to balance with lower back. swimming also works the upper back muscles to the point that things like bench press can be good. why all of this balance? preventing injury.

[slowSSer]

VERY helpful Mark. Thanks.

*Wow he barely kicks. I'm kicking about 10 times more!

distance swimmer stroke. why use the legs less? they use a LOT more oxygen than your arms do. think of a swimmers view of a swim leg in a triathlon- sprint for the buoy on the first leg to get ahead, and turn the legs off/let the tri wetsuit do its floatie job!!

[EricKeller]

are there any brands/models of swim jammers that don't ride so low on the hips? Most of the ones I see are low enough they would look ridiculous on me. OTOH, I can't keep my current swim trunks to stay up, so maybe I'm going to have to settle.

[Too Tall]

are there any brands/models of swim jammers that don't ride so low on the hips? Most of the ones I see are low enough they would look ridiculous on me. OTOH, I can't keep my current swim trunks to stay up, so maybe I'm going to have to settle.

You need to eat more doughnuts. My secret is out kidding. I'm using Speedo "Endurance". They seem like normal swim trunks to me, nothing crazy.

[EricKeller]

When I lose weight, about the only thing that shrinks is my butt. Donuts just go right to my gut, so there is a definite downward force issue.

[Mark Kelly]

I'm using Speedo "Endurance".

Another Australian brand that moved OS. The logo is actually a stylised boomerang.

BTW they're known as budgie smugglers locally.

[Too Tall]

Another Australian brand that moved OS. The logo is actually a stylised boomerang.

BTW they're known as budgie smugglers locally.

I have no shame.

[Mark Kelly]

Somewhat OT but hopefully you'll find this amusing:

The name "Budgie Smuggler" is a reference to the number of Australian birds, especially of the parrot family, that are smuggled out because they are far more valuable OS.

I didn't realise how valuable they were until the young Italian assistant winemaker I had last year commented on the number of sulphur crested cockatoos around the vineyard, saying his business partner in Italy had one for which he'd paid 1000 Euros.

A week or so later we had about 40 sulphur crests making their typical racket in a tree next to the winery, Edoardo took a pic which he sent to his partner labelled "40,000 Euros"

[Too Tall]

Somewhat OT but hopefully you'll find this amusing:

The name "Budgie Smuggler" is a reference to the number of Australian birds, especially of the parrot family, that are smuggled out because they are far more valuable OS.

I didn't realise how valuable they were until the young Italian assistant winemaker I had last year commented on the number of sulphur crested cockatoos around the vineyard, saying his business partner in Italy had one for which he'd paid 1000 Euros.

A week or so later we had about 40 sulphur crests making their typical racket in a tree next to the winery, Edoardo took a pic which he sent to his partner labelled "40,000 Euros"

Somewhat further off topic. I had two locally bred sulfur crested cockatoos at pets for many years name Fred and Nancy (yeah lame musical reference). They flew freely in my house or where ever I was living and in love....one day Fred escaped into the wild thru a tiny opening in the living room window. He stayed in a huge oak tree for about a week than gone. After a month a pal encouraged me to call the local humane society. "Tell us again exactly what kind of bird and specifically the type..." Those birds were exceptionally rare in the USA at that time. I was working part time at a pet store and we had a connection to a local who had a breeding pair...I was incredibly lucky to get the two birds. Turns out Fred was knocked down by a storm weak from not eating and found by a woman about 5 miles away. They put me in contact with her, her response was "it could not possibly be your bird" but I insisted on a visit. I had a plan. Nancy and Fred were mated and all I had to do was whistle their call and they both would go nuts. I arrived at her apt. with about two arm fulls of chrysanthemums, stuffed those into her arms and gave the "call"...the birds went insane, I went directly in and grabbed Fred put him in the cage with Nancy. All the while the woman was protesting that Fred was rightfully hers and I should not take him. Mmmmmm no way, those birds were in love and Nancy was dying slowly without her Fred. Never looked back, apologized profusely and beat it on down the line. Fred and Nancy lived happily for a few more years together until I got a job in S. Wyoming so I found a lovely young couple with kids to adopt them. That's my story.

So...swimming. It's hard.

[marley]

Dog people are weird, horse people are stranger, bird people......no words - almost as strange as middle age men playing with bikes and dressing in Lyrca and actually thinking they have style.

disclaimer - I have a dog and received a new kit from La Passione with the matching socks and yes I road very slowly by the store front windows to check myself out :) now I need new glasses - onto that thread now

[Mark Kelly]

Somewhat further off topic.

Mmmmmm no way, those birds were in love and Nancy was dying slowly without her Fred.

I am pretty sure they are monogamous, as are many of the local members of the parrot family, so your observation would be spot on.

[christian]

Cyclists can have trouble taking up swimming because their upper bodies tend to be weak, their legs are dense and heavy which makes them sink, they fight the water and exhaust themselves, and they kick too much.

It's like you've seen me swim.

[mmoore]

on that note, how can I swim with my feet up without being 2 feet under water.

I put a float under my legs on my last swim and gained a whole lot of speed even without kicking

[David Tollefson]

I put a float under my legs on my last swim and gained a whole lot of speed even without kicking

I was a typical runner-turned-swimmer (okay, triathlete, but still) and had the really strong 6-beat kick that did not much more than kick my own @$$ when it came to oxygen usage. Basically I'd be driving my legs deep, with this huge body angle.

So I had to use the pull buoy for 6 weeks, NO kicking at all, just upper body, and getting the feel of proper body position. I had to UNlearn that 6-beat kick. When I got past the 6 weeks, I started over with a 2-beat kick. HUGE improvement in speed and body position. And my swim endurance took a quantum leap, not having to constantly fight to get enough oxygen to feed the legs.

[HorsCat]

on that note, how can I swim with my feet up without being 2 feet under water.

Learn to feel and understand your body's buoyancy in the water. Terry Laughlin's "Total Immersion" instructional has some drills for this (very first DVD in the series, I believe).

Learn to keep your hips up and your chest pushing down in water.

Learn to kick to keep your body straight and streamlined, and not really for propulsion.

Learn to glide.

[dasein]

My old coach would always encourage me to get "deeper" in the water. He taught us to use rotation "to get to the air". Swimming "deeper" allows you to move more water provided that you rotate well and time it with your spearing (entry) hand. I used to focus on rotating "into the water", now I focus on rotating toward my back bringing a shoulder out of the water.

on that note, how can I swim with my feet up without being 2 feet under water.

I put a float under my legs on my last swim and gained a whole lot of speed even without kicking

[chrisn]

I've been swimming for nigh on a couple of years now, having been talked into doing some amateur Triathlons, and concur it is hard! It takes a lot of pool time to link all of those individual movements and actions together and unlearn the muscle memory from other sports. Once I had the basics put together I think the mistake I made was just to go to the pool and 'practice swimming', hoping I would somehow improve. It may help fitness but what you really need is good form and technique, leading to better efficiency. Time doing isolation drills and concentrating on one thing at a time brings better results quicker. If you haven't already, get a Pull Buoy and practice using arms only and work on the catch. Then use it out front and practice different leg kicks. It can feel so tedious at times but it gives your brain the chance to get tidier at each motion individually and build the muscle memory that way. Also as said before rotation seems key (and is my next thing to work on) in order to minimise drag when bringing the arms forward and over. Youtube vids are great for this, as describing it / understanding it is difficult.