irrational fear of flying

[davids]

Although I'm posting this along with Jason Bourne from a CIA safe house somewhere in Eastern Europe, I now know the reason for the air activity. At least this is what we are telling the public...

Why are there helicopters circling over Pittsburgh? | WPXI

That reminds me of an announcement made earlier this week on a commuter train that pulled into the station quite late: "We're experiencing delays because the equipment was late departing from the yard."

OK then.

[rwsaunders]

In case you missed this...wild times in Seattle on Friday evening.

Stolen plane closes Seattle-Tacoma airport before crashing - BBC News

[rwsaunders]

That's the first time that I've ever seen a flight listed as "diverted"...tough storms in the Midwest tonight.

[rwsaunders]

Took off in some serious rain the other evening and had the pleasure of connecting in MSP...nice view coming in. I believe that the airport in first pic is Flying Cloud (FCM)...Saab please chime in.

[Saab2000]

Flying Cloud is south of this airport, which is Crystal, northwest of the city. I did some early flight lessons at Crystal. My family used to own a condo just on the other side of downtown Minneapolis and my grandparents lived in south Minneapolis just under the flight path, on Oakland Ave. just north of Minnehaha Creek. The lakes you are seeing in your lower photo, from left to right, are Cedar Lake, Lake of the Isles and Lake Calhoun. I can remember early 747-100s from Northwest Orient flying over the house. To call those old 747s, DC-10s, 727s deafening would be an understatement.

My mother lives just to the right of where your city picture ends.

Love Minneapolis!

[rwsaunders]

One has been flying too much lately, when while you're sipping a coffee at the illy shop in DTW after taking a redeye from SEA, you recognize The Stones' "Goodbye Ruby Tuesday" coming from the player piano in the concourse...near the cool fountain. Now it's playing Prince's "1999"...I need to get home.

[rwsaunders]

A good sign that you’re on a first name basis with your airport barista.

[Mabouya]

I believe that the airport in first pic is Flying Cloud (FCM)...Saab please chime in.

I would have been impressed if you had said that you were about to land at that airport, and even more impressed if you said that you had just taken off from it...

[rwsaunders]

An oasis in a desert of airport SBUX.

[rwsaunders]

I was almost at this point last evening...especially when the woman turned her seat screen on at 2:00AM for the rest of a 4-hour redeye flight and watched the movie without headphones...a good lip reader I guess. Really? You should have seen the face on my other aislemate when she did that, as subliminally, I know that each of us was plotting how to lure her into the restroom, only to lock her in there for the rest of the flight. At least I was on a roll with the crossword puzzle later in the morning as I can related to being a 38 down.

Passenger sues BA for being 'squashed next to obese man' - BBC News

[SteveP]

went through Minneapolis on the way back from Bozeman in Sept... big airport!
Lot of construction since the last time I passed through there.

[SteveP]

Note on the Malaysian crash from a few weeks ago.
What the Lion Air Pilots May Have Needed to Do to Avoid a Crash - The New York Times

holy hell, sounds like a huge cluster f to me.

i know this is speculation at this point but, damn, none of this stuff in the manual?


this is more rational fear of flying I thk.

[BBB]

It was an Indonesian airline and it would appear there was significant safety concerns, meaning the plane shouldn't have been flying in the first place. Avoid low cost airlines in developing parts of the world.

Still...this is a concern...

Japan Airlines pilots 'failed breathalyser tests 19 times' | World news | The Guardian

As for the person suing for being sat next to an obese man...I shared the bulkhead briefly with an incredibly overweight guy (funnily enough, given the link above, on a Japan Airlines Flight). He had the window seat and I had the aisle. He didn't fit and complained briefly and was ushered to business. I had the row of three seats to myself for the flight. What are airlines meant to do when passengers book themselves in economy knowning that they won't fit in the seat?

[jclay]

It was an Indonesian airline and it would appear there was significant safety concerns, meaning the plane shouldn't have been flying in the first place. Avoid low cost airlines in developing parts of the world.

There appears to be much more to this crash. It's sounding like a new flight control system for which the pilots weren't trained and adverse changes in pitch dynamics of the airframe may be the root cause of the crash. Intestring reading, here:

Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta - Page 77 - PPRuNe Forums

I've only skimmed the posts but I don't like what I'm reading. Someone who's read more about it than I thinks that Boeing billed it as a 737 "so no addnl training needed for pilots of other 737 variants"; implication being that the operator wasn't alerted to the operation of this new Manual Control Augmentation System system. If I understand correctly the MCAS thought it was stalling, pushed the nose over and the pilots didn't know how to defeat it, or even what was responsible for the action.

As one pilot noted: The pilot is always supposed to have the final say. When you pull, the houses are supposed to get smaller....always.

[Saab2000]

There appears to be much more to this crash. It's sounding like a new flight control system for which the pilots weren't trained and adverse changes in pitch dynamics of the airframe may be the root cause of the crash. Intestring reading, here:

Indonesian aircraft missing off Jakarta - Page 77 - PPRuNe Forums

I've only skimmed the posts but I don't like what I'm reading. Someone who's read more about it than I thinks that Boeing billed it as a 737 "so no addnl training needed for pilots of other 737 variants"; implication being that the operator wasn't alerted to the operation of this new Manual Control Augmentation System system. If I understand correctly the MCAS thought it was stalling, pushed the nose over and the pilots didn't know how to defeat it, or even what was responsible for the action.

As one pilot noted: The pilot is always supposed to have the final say. When you pull, the houses are supposed to get smaller....always.

A runaway trim system can easily be overridden on a Boeing 737, including the MAX series of the type.

PPrune is a terrible source of information, especially for the general public. It's like the worst cycling forum x 10. It's the worst form of echo chamber.

I wasn't sitting in that seat so I won't comment what happened or is speculated to have happened. But the stabilizer trim can be disconnected and this will disconnect the MCAS. I fly this type, including the MAX8. This system only exists in the new MAX aircraft but the same procedure applies for any runaway pitch trim on Boeing 737 type aircraft. The automatic pitch trim can be disabled by activating a guarded switch (requiring confirmation of both pilots) and the airplane can be trimmed manually.

Don't panic, especially based on information gleaned from a pilot forum. They are, in all seriousness, an awful place to get 'facts'.

The best source for information on airplane incidents and accidents is the NTSB. The information can be incredibly dry, but it usually devoid of hysteria and speculation. The case in question is probably not being investigated by the US NTSB, though they may be active as consultants and I'm sure Boeing is quite active. They have a strong interest in this is the 737 is the largest selling commercial airplane ever as far as I know and the MAX is the latest version of this airplane.

Wait for facts. Don't listen to hysterical pilots or wannabe pilots on PPrune.

PS - I didn't want to comment on this but when you cited a PPrune thread I couldn't hold my tongue, or typing fingers, any longer.

[jclay]

A runaway trim system can easily be overridden on a Boeing 737, including the MAX series of the type.

PPrune is a terrible source of information, especially for the general public. It's like the worst cycling forum x 10. It's the worst form of echo chamber.

I wasn't sitting in that seat so I won't comment what happened or is speculated to have happened. But the stabilizer trim can be disconnected and this will disconnect the MCAS. I fly this type, including the MAX8. This system only exists in the new MAX aircraft but the same procedure applies for any runaway pitch trim on Boeing 737 type aircraft. The automatic pitch trim can be disabled by activating a guarded switch (requiring confirmation of both pilots) and the airplane can be trimmed manually.

Don't panic, especially based on information gleaned from a pilot forum. They are, in all seriousness, an awful place to get 'facts'.

The best source for information on airplane incidents and accidents is the NTSB. The information can be incredibly dry, but it usually devoid of hysteria and speculation. The case in question is probably not being investigated by the US NTSB, though they may be active as consultants and I'm sure Boeing is quite active. They have a strong interest in this is the 737 is the largest selling commercial airplane ever as far as I know and the MAX is the latest version of this airplane.

Wait for facts. Don't listen to hysterical pilots or wannabe pilots on PPrune.

PS - I didn't want to comment on this but when you cited a PPrune thread I couldn't hold my tongue, or typing fingers, any longer.

So Boeing has made operators aware of the MCAS and the need for training in it's use? I am glad to hear it. The notion that a new flight control system could be introduced without disclosure and proper documentation/training was blowing my mind, to say the least!

While reading the posts I was directed to a discussion of the Speed Trim System. Out of, say, six professional 737 drivers I think two had the same underlying concept of the STS; the operational theory behind it and how to use it in practice! That is astonishing.

[Saab2000]

The focus is on the wrong thing here. The MCAS is an automatic, transparent system and its inclusion on this newest version doesn't change how a runaway pitch trim is handled. It's not like Boeing 737 MAXs are suddenly going to fly out of control. Pilots still have the last say in how they fly. Pretty much everything can be turned off and it can be flown with virtually no electrical or hydraulic power in the most extreme case imaginable.

Can't comment more on this. Until all the facts are known and a final report issued everything is speculation and that leads us to the wrong places in most cases.

[jclay]

Until all the facts are known and a final report issued everything is speculation and that leads us to the wrong places in most cases.

True fact.
I was just startled at the "headlines". I should know better.

[jclay]

Hang glider forced to cling on for his life after launching unattached | World news | The Guardian

Hang gliders are airplanes. Can you say "check list"?

Any fear of flight that guy might have henceforth isn't irrational!

[Tom]

I worked with a guy who was an avid hang glider and he said it was tempting to unclip on a hot day waiting for the wind but it was really embarrassing to launch and fall off your kite so he didn't.