Appreciating things done well

[dgaddis]

I'm far from being the most handy guy in the world. FAR from it. But I like doing things myself as much as possible, partly because I want to know how it works so I can fix it, partly because I don't want to pay someone else to do something I can do myself, and increasingly, because I know if I do it, it'll be done right. May take me way longer to get it done, but it'll be right.

The previous owner of my home, and whoever built it, didn't have this same philosophy. Here's the list of stuff I've found, so far ::

• Guest bathroom doorknob is backwards. That means to shut you the door you have to turn the knob, then close. It also means, even if the door is locked, you can just push on the door from the outside and it'll open. To my own fault however...I still haven't taken the 2mins to fix this.
• Door going onto the deck started rubbing the door frame a few months ago. When I went to tighten the screws holding the hinges to the door frame I realized there were two screws missing - ON ALL THREE HINGES.
• While replacing outlets I found one with some ghettofied wiring where someone tacked an additional outlet onto the circuit (for the ground wire they ran a white insulated wire back to the last original outlet on the circuit and attached it to the ground screw, along with the bare copper ground already there, the screw isn't really long enough for two wires to fit under it and was only finger tight). I took that add-on outlet off the circuit (it's under the stairs where they added a wet bar...we're gonna turn it into a closet, eventually).
• There's a floodlight on the front of the house, the light switch that controls it is in the very back of the living room against the back wall of the house next to the doors that go out onto the deck. There's a handful of switch locations closer to the front of the house, including one right next to the front door.
• The master bathroom is in one of the back corners of the house. There's three outlets in that room, the one most in the back corner is on the same circuit as the guest room in the opposite front corner of the house. Also, PSA, when changing outlets or switches, always check each one for power before touching anything - don't assume it's off just because by any and all logic is should be off.
• The window treatment in the bonus room was supported by a 1"x1" piece of wood screwed to the wall above the window, standard single width window (~30" I think?). There was three screws used. Below is a picture of the three screws. This pissed me off so much.

The dining room outlet circuit has a bad neutral wire coming from/going to the breaker. I've got to get under the house to figure out exactly where/why and how to fix it. I haven't been under the house yet, but I'm a little nervous about what I'm going to find...

Anyhow. Thanks for letting me rant.

[caleb]

Oh man, don't get me started.

Who, when removing old blinds, doesn't remove the old brackets, and instead paints over them?

Who, when putting up brackets for a hanging bar in a closet, uses nails?

Who, when laying bathroom flooring, just lays it over the top of the old stuff?

If you know who this guy was, I'd like tp give him a piece of my mind.

That's not to mention the generations of half-@ss, cheapskate, good enough solutions. I mean, who really needs a proper vent in a bathroom anyway?

[j44ke]

My friend recently had this conversation with his father.

Well I ran wire out to the garage from the house, but I can't get the lights to work.
Okay we'll dig it up when I get there and figure out what's going on.
We can't dig it up.
Why?
Cause I ran it under the porch slab I poured last weekend.
Oh. Well we'll have to re-snake it through the conduit once we figure it out.
I didn't use conduit, just Romex.
What? Was it metal clad?
No just the regular stuff.

I told him to put two terminals on the porch and connect that to the garage. Maybe the lights would work then.

[Tom]

Those screws may have pissed you off but they made me burst out laughing in the office.

On the wiring... replacing broken outlets in a room on one end of the house I was checking each for current. Yes, the one that wasn't quite the same as the others on the closet wall was live. I couldn't find its breaker with the finder except I got faint tone up at the breaker for the cable that went out to the box in the garage. Yes, that's what they did. Not enough wire to reach down cellar to the house box they cut it off and stuck it on a breaker in the garage. I've since gone through and mapped every light, switch, appliance and outlet to the breaker that owns it and have that map downstairs next to the box.

[dgaddis]

My current dilemma w/the bad neutral wire has taken a long time to figure out, and confused all the electrical engineers I work with. Here's the abbreviated longer version of the saga:

~2yrs ago I replaced the chandelier in the dining room. When I was done, moved the dining room table back, etc and flipped the breaker back on, the wife tried to turn on the lights in the china cabinet to look at the now-finished room, and....no lights. They were working at some point before changing the light, but I don't recall when we last turned it on. Further investigation showed none of the outlets in the room were working. Hmmm.

Last weekend I finally decided to figure out the issue. We're replacing all the switches and outlets in the house anyways, and that room was next. First thing was to re-check the light connection. Turned off the 'dining room' circuit, went in there, and, the light was still on. OH YEAH - the light and outlets are on different circuits! I had forgotten that detail from when I changed the light originally. Turned off the 'front door' circuit (which also includes the dining room light), re-checked the light connection anyways (it's good), then started working through the outlets in the room.

Didn't find any obvious problems. Turned the power back on...still nothing works. Maybe it's the breaker switch, so I swapped it out. Still no good.

Voltage tester shows voltage at all the outlets, but they don't work. Got an outlet tester, and it shows that the ground and hot are reversed. Well, I know for damn sure I didn't mix up the hot and ground. My electrical engineering buddies tell me it's time to to turn off the power on that circuit and call an electrician.

A MTBing buddy is a former electrician, he came over and we spent three hours going through the whole room. Checked the light connection again, light switches, and went through every outlet and all the wiring between them. Everything between the outlets checks out, but on the 'first' outlet, the hot/neutral coming from/to the breaker, we get 120V between the hot and ground as expected, but only 30something volts between the hot and neutral. I don't know of anything else on the circuit between the breaker and that outlet, but maybe there's another outlet below the house (the air handler is below that room), maybe there's a problem with it, maybe the wire has been damaged somehow, etc. So anyhow....I now know where the problem is, mostly.

Good news is, the hot and ground are not actually reversed so it's not a raging fire hazard, that outlet tester just wasn't able to show exactly what the issue. We're keeping the circuit off anyways till I get it solved, just in case, and we don't use any of those outlets anyhow.

Also, whatever the issue is, it wasn't my fault, and Fred said my switch/outlet swap-job was well done especially considering I don't know a lot about wiring and electricity. When it comes to electricity, I know it hurts, and that you need to keep the smoke in the wires.

[Too Tall]

When people compliment me for doing something well it often surprises me. I really enjoy routine, mind numbing work that nobody else wants to do it relaxes me.

One day at the mine I spotted a pile of giant threaded bolts. These are removed using a hydraulic press, to give a idea of the size. Each bolt was probably 50 lbs. Someone had tossed them into a pile which buggered the threads. Since I was just waiting for the drillers to get out of my way I started using a file to chase all the bolt threads, than lined them up nice and neat in a row. Nobody actually gave a F but one old timer said something nice which kinda made a lasting impression on me.

Anywho DD I say recognize people for the good work they do, it matters esp. to young punks with time on their hands ;)

[Bob Ross]

The three dissimilar screws reminds me of a lesson I learned way back circa 1979 when I was helping a friend rewire a recording studio. At one point we were each adding four audio tie-lines to opposite sides of the control room, just tie-wrapping our respective cable bundles to the outside of some existing surface-mount conduit. I completed my half and wandered across the room to see how my friend's half looked.

That's when I noticed his plastic tie-wraps were all oriented in the same direction, with their heads at exactly the same position around the bundle, and were all equidistant from one another.

I felt like such an idiot. That's when I learned that it doesn't take any more time to do it right; it just takes the realization that Doing It Right has value.

I clipped off all the tie-wraps I'd installed and completely re-did the job...right.

[j44ke]

My current dilemma w/the bad neutral wire has taken a long time to figure out, and confused all the electrical engineers I work with. Here's the abbreviated longer version of the saga:

~2yrs ago I replaced the chandelier in the dining room. When I was done, moved the dining room table back, etc and flipped the breaker back on, the wife tried to turn on the lights in the china cabinet to look at the now-finished room, and....no lights. They were working at some point before changing the light, but I don't recall when we last turned it on. Further investigation showed none of the outlets in the room were working. Hmmm.

Last weekend I finally decided to figure out the issue. We're replacing all the switches and outlets in the house anyways, and that room was next. First thing was to re-check the light connection. Turned off the 'dining room' circuit, went in there, and, the light was still on. OH YEAH - the light and outlets are on different circuits! I had forgotten that detail from when I changed the light originally. Turned off the 'front door' circuit (which also includes the dining room light), re-checked the light connection anyways (it's good), then started working through the outlets in the room.

Didn't find any obvious problems. Turned the power back on...still nothing works. Maybe it's the breaker switch, so I swapped it out. Still no good.

Voltage tester shows voltage at all the outlets, but they don't work. Got an outlet tester, and it shows that the ground and hot are reversed. Well, I know for damn sure I didn't mix up the hot and ground. My electrical engineering buddies tell me it's time to to turn off the power on that circuit and call an electrician.

A MTBing buddy is a former electrician, he came over and we spent three hours going through the whole room. Checked the light connection again, light switches, and went through every outlet and all the wiring between them. Everything between the outlets checks out, but on the 'first' outlet, the hot/neutral coming from/to the breaker, we get 120V between the hot and ground as expected, but only 30something volts between the hot and neutral. I don't know of anything else on the circuit between the breaker and that outlet, but maybe there's another outlet below the house (the air handler is below that room), maybe there's a problem with it, maybe the wire has been damaged somehow, etc. So anyhow....I now know where the problem is, mostly.

Good news is, the hot and ground are not actually reversed so it's not a raging fire hazard, that outlet tester just wasn't able to show exactly what the issue. We're keeping the circuit off anyways till I get it solved, just in case, and we don't use any of those outlets anyhow.

Also, whatever the issue is, it wasn't my fault, and Fred said my switch/outlet swap-job was well done especially considering I don't know a lot about wiring and electricity. When it comes to electricity, I know it hurts, and that you need to keep the smoke in the wires.

That sounds like a lost neutral. I only know about this because it occurred in a house I worked on during college. I wasn't doing anything with electricity - I was a housepainter - but there were electricians working and they kicked us (and our compressor) out of the house until they fixed it. So of course being a nosey college kid, I wanted to know what was up. However I don't remember the explanation other than it means the neutral is open somewhere and that's risky at least.

[dgaddis]

That sounds like a lost neutral. I only know about this because it occurred in a house I worked on during college. I wasn't doing anything with electricity - I was a housepainter - but there were electricians working and they kicked us (and our compressor) out of the house until they fixed it. So of course being a nosey college kid, I wanted to know what was up. However I don't remember the explanation other than it means the neutral is open somewhere and that's risky at least.

I don't think it's an open neutral because it is letting some voltage through (we're getting 30something volts between the hot and neutral)....but again, I don't know much about electricity. I always try and think of it like a fluid flowing through a pipe, but, that ain't really how electricity works.

We've got that circuit off till I get it resolved, just to be safe. No need to risk it!

If anyone here can better explain what I might find causing the issue, I'm all ears!!

[j44ke]

I don't think it's an open neutral because it is letting some voltage through (we're getting 30something volts between the hot and neutral)....but again, I don't know much about electricity. I always try and think of it like a fluid flowing through a pipe, but, that ain't really how electricity works.

We've got that circuit off till I get it resolved, just to be safe. No need to risk it!

If anyone here can better explain what I might find causing the issue, I'm all ears!!

I see, you don't have a hot neutral, you have a low hot wire to neutral wire voltage. I misread.

Back to house painting.

[j44ke]

Now I have this thing in my head.

To get lower voltage, you should have an open or grounded neutral somewhere eh? That you are just getting 30v means there is some resistance somehow. Corrosion or break or loose screw. Would it necessarily be between the outlet and the breaker box or could it be between the outlet and the next outlet in the other direction also? Is there an orphan outlet on the other side of the wall? Or at the breaker in the box, are neutral connections for that circuit tight.

[dgaddis]

Now I have this thing in my head.

To get lower voltage, you should have an open or grounded neutral somewhere eh? That you are just getting 30v means there is some resistance somehow. Corrosion or break or loose screw. Would it necessarily be between the outlet and the breaker box or could it be between the outlet and the next outlet in the other direction also? Is there an orphan outlet on the other side of the wall? Or at the breaker in the box, are neutral connections for that circuit tight.

That's my understanding, there's a resistance of some sort. If it was open I think we'd get no voltage....I think.

All the connections between the outlets in the dining room are good. The connections at the breaker at good. Between the dining room and the breaker there's no other switches or outlets inside the house on that circuit. Under the house - who knows. Apparently it's not uncommon to put an outlet next to the air handler for anyone doing work on it to use, and the air handler is under the room. The "first" outlet in the circuit is actually right next to the air return grille, so close the faceplate almost touches the edge of the grille. I haven't been under there to look yet tho.

I'm hoping it's a bad outlet under the house, as that'll be a lot easier to swap vs having to pull a new wire.

I'll report back whenever I get under there, it'll be after the holidays, we're busy busy busy the next few weekends.

[becomingblue]

We bought our house from a couple that seemed normal enough although we only talked to them a few times before the sale. Once we moved in and looked at things closer, we realized he was a dunce. And the neighbor confirmed this after I talked to him a few times.

He varnished over the kitchen cabinets to make them look better. Turns out he varnished right over the coffee and maple syrup drip stains(?) on the doors. Painted around the furniture in most of the rooms, used nails instead of screws, had some plumbing and electrical half baked fixes, etc. Nothing that was dangerous or crazy, just a half baked job on everything. Although, it was a few years before I relaxed because I never found anything horrific.

There's a song by Steppenwolf called "The Pusher Man". One of the lines goes ".....GD the Pusher Man." My wife and I nicknamed the previous owner The Butcher Man. After that, anytime we found one of his "fixes" we'd say "GD the Butcher Man".

[dgaddis]

Oh yeah, all our trim is latex paint over top of oil based paint.

Which means if something rubs up against it (like the armrest of a couch while moving in) the latex paint just peels riiiiiight off.

[Too Tall]

We bought our house from a couple that seemed normal enough although we only talked to them a few times before the sale. Once we moved in and looked at things closer, we realized he was a dunce. And the neighbor confirmed this after I talked to him a few times.

He varnished over the kitchen cabinets to make them look better. Turns out he varnished right over the coffee and maple syrup drip stains(?) on the doors. Painted around the furniture in most of the rooms, used nails instead of screws, had some plumbing and electrical half baked fixes, etc. Nothing that was dangerous or crazy, just a half baked job on everything. Although, it was a few years before I relaxed because I never found anything horrific.

There's a song by Steppenwolf called "The Pusher Man". One of the lines goes ".....GD the Pusher Man." My wife and I nicknamed the previous owner The Butcher Man. After that, anytime we found one of his "fixes" we'd say "GD the Butcher Man".

Similar. We bought a house for Mah and Pah across the street. We had a couple months to work on it. The first thing I find is they loved attic insulation. It was stuffed deeply into the eves and zero soffit vents. Mold was creeping into every thing. We had to suit up, bag and haul hundreds of pounds of the stuff...than a garden sprayer with Clorox...than cut soffit vents. The PO was fond of drilling into walls to run "things" like extensions and speaker wires. Nothing disastrous just dumb headed. People.

Can we talk more about things well done please this is depressing.

[thollandpe]

The guy who built my house, something he did when he was 68 years old, was the opposite. He over-did and over-built wherever possible.

When I replaced the kitchen countertops I discovered that he had used about 1000 wood screws, with slotted heads, to secure them. These were driven by hand, and had to be removed by hand.

The subfloor in the kitchen was nailed, screw-shank nails sunk with a hammer, spaced more than 2" apart but less than 3". It does not creak.

TH

PS Josh, next time you need to remediate mold ditch the bleach and go with Benefect (thyme oil), Benefect Botanical Disinfectants & Cleaners for the Insurance Restoration Industry

[thollandpe]

My friend's camp in Maine was wired by his father, a pedigreed Swamp Yankee raised by Depression-era Swamp Yankees.

They wired the place box by box, installing the switch or outlet in the box, and then pulling out the slack so they'd use less wire running to the next box. Copper is expensive!

T "Ayuh" Aitch

PS Dustin, I'm betting you have a nail through your Romex somewhere.

[dashDustin]

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#monday

[davids]

You guys are making me feel so much better about the tawdry finishwork in my house. We bought it from the original owners who'd lived there 15 years. The house's bones are rock-solid. But every square inch of the surface was crappy, "builder grade" as we'd politely put it.

The two best examples were a strip of window trim in 2nd bathroom that was merely primed. Poorly primed at that, almost like a thin grey-white stain had been slopped on.

The winner, though, was the living room wallplate. Three switches, a simple switch flanked by two dimmers. The plastic of each dimmer, the single switch and the wallplate were all different shades. And the whole thing was stuck to the wall with a single screw. I wish I'd taken a better shot, now that the monument to poor workmanship is long gone:

[donevwil]

The list at my house is too long to post, plus I don't need to be in that place right now. The previous owner considered himself quite the handyman, had all the tools and was eager to show off (some of) his accomplishments. That should have been a warning.

The big one (for me), he chose to pour a slab in the garage (old carriage house for even older house) himself, the high point is at the garage door which faces southwest (direct weather), the low point is at the opposite end, the only side without even a minimal foundation wall, just sill plate on slab. WTF? How does one pull off this worst case scenario, it's as though he put in extra effort to make it so.

I need a drink.